Neck sizer 30-06 ???

RB98SS · August 11, 2008, 11:29 PM

I've decided to neck size my cases from here forward as I only am reloading for one rifle and the benefits of case life alone is enough reason for me. I currently have the RCBS 3 die set that has a FL sizer and am going to order a neck sizer.
I'm looking for opinions as to whether or not there is a benefit to using the Lee Collet Neck Sizer Die vs. the normal neck sizer dies, and also opinions from those that have used both, what their thoughts are.

Thanks in advance.

Scorch · August 12, 2008, 12:03 AM

I use collet dies for everything I shoot except the 223 for my AR. I have used them for years, ever since I first heard about them. They work very well.

HOGGHEAD · August 12, 2008, 02:01 AM

IMO I would not use a collet die unless you are going to turn your necks. You can cause pressure spikes, and get bad SD's because of different neck tensions on the bullet.

I personally do not like the lee dies, but again that is just my opinion. If your only reason is to increase brass life then just back off your FL sizer. Why spend the money?? Tom.

wncchester · August 12, 2008, 07:14 AM

"whether or not there is a benefit to using the Lee Collet Neck Sizer Die vs. the normal neck sizer dies"

Yes, very much so.

All conventional neck sizers decrease the necks well below the finished diameter and then expand them back up to bullet diameter minus about .001". The Lee Collet Neck Sizers take necks down to about .001" below and stop there, thus we have a minimum of working the brass.

As a second benefit, conventional expander plugs tend to pull necks out of line due to variations in neck thickness or alloy variations. The Lee Collet does not expand, so the necks will be straighter after sizing.

Another thing I really like about the Lee Collet is that there is no need to turn necks to a consistant thickness before sizing, as is the case with the various button type neck sizers.

steve4102 · August 12, 2008, 07:20 AM

The Lee Collet Die is simply the best tool for the job. It requires no lube and produces the most concentric(run-out free) brass you can get. Neck tension is much more consistant than with standard neck sizers as the brass is shaped around a mandrel not undersized and then opened back up with the POS expander ball like standard neck dies.

sundog · August 12, 2008, 08:16 AM

The collet neck sizer is by far the way to go. Besides reducing runout (and, yes an outside neck turn would also help make necks more consistent) it substanstially reduces stretching because there is no ball passing through.

Hogghead, I fail to see how collet neck sizing can cause pressure spikes. Makes no difference if PFL size or neck size. If inside diameter is same, with or without neck turn as long as all cases are the same, neck tensions will be the same.

FM12 · August 12, 2008, 11:27 AM

Another vote for the Lee collett. May not work for ammo used in semi-autos, however.

Smokey Joe · August 12, 2008, 11:47 AM

When I first got my first Lee Collet Neck-sizing die, I had a shoot-off between FL-sized cases and LCNS cases, indentical load otherwise, same rifle. Rifle was a .30-'06 Bubba-ized 'O3A3 made by Remington, with a Timney trigger and a Redfield 4x 'scope (from back when Redfields were made in Colorado.)

Was careful to eliminate shooter fatigue, and used a sandbag rest so the shooter hold was eliminated also. And I'm a pretty fair shot besides.

The results were quite clear: The Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die did make ammo which, using that load, in that rifle, printed notably smaller groups than did the FL sized ammo.

That was many years ago. IIRC, the FL-sized 10-shot groups were about 1" in diameter. The LCNS-sized groups were a bit less than 1". So I was convinced of the truth of Lee's brag that the LCNS die will make you the most accurate ammo.

Since then, when I set myself up for reloading a new rifle cartridge, one of the first things I get is a new Lee Collet Neck-Sizing die for that cartridge. Had to have Lee custom-make one for me in .300 WSM, back when that cartridge was new on the scene.

Will that do for a testimonial?

RB98SS · August 12, 2008, 02:04 PM

Wow. Thanks for all the great feedback. Collet it is.

HOGGHEAD · August 12, 2008, 03:02 PM

Could some one please explain to me how you can use a collet die without turning the necks?? I turn necks(but only a little). How can a collet die consistently "downsize" the neck enough to where the mandrel can give uniform neck tension without a uniform neck thickness?? How else can you control neck tension without controlling the neck thickness?? You would have to use an oversized collet die to be able to size all the brass if you did not turn the necks, because some necks will be bigger?? You can not size a neck over a madrel if the neck is larger than the collet?? Unless you are telling me that you are stretching your brass??

It is not a fair comparison to compare a FL sizer to a NS for accuracy. If you want to compare something then compare accuracy between untrimmed necks, and necks turned minimally, and then sized with the PROPER collet. The PROPER collet size is the key(IMO).

Pressure spikes might have been an overstatement. But I truly believe you will have higher SD's without turning the necks. Especially with a collet die.

I agree with you guys about the expander ball. I use the Sinclair sizing mandrel in a totally separate step. But then I am not in a hurry. Tom.

wncchester · August 12, 2008, 03:35 PM

Hogg, I think you are confusing Lee's Collet neck sizer and the various replacable neck sizer button dies on the market. Not the same, in fact they are entirely different.

Lee did have a cut-away illustration on their web site at one time, if it's still there it will/should show you the difference.

Smokey Joe · August 12, 2008, 04:54 PM

Hogghead--with the Lee Collet die, the INSIDE of the neck is made to be the correct diameter. The thickness of the brass will cause variation, if any, to the size of the OUTSIDE of the neck.

Since the inside of the neck is where you put the bullet, and since all the insides are the same diameter, exactly how thick the neck is will have only small (more so than none at all, I'm sure) effect on the neck tension.

And all w/o turning necks or any of that esoteric stuff.

I'm sure that benchresters would scoff @ the crudity of the procedure. I'm equally sure that the gain in accuracy over FL sizing is (1) real, and (2) of use to the "average shooter" as opposed to a benchrester or an upper-level high-power competitor.

HankB · August 12, 2008, 06:08 PM

Another vote for the Lee collet die. Without an expander ball to drag through an undersized neck, the cases don't stretch as much during the reloading process, even as compared to "conventional" neck sizing dies.

butta9999 · August 13, 2008, 04:24 AM

I asked the same question a few weeks ago. The collet die is the tool for the job. I got very positive feed back from members and alot of advice. I have since bought a collet die for my .300 win mag and it works a beaut. No stretching of the neck and no lube required. There is a little fine tuning to do when setting up the die. The only thing i had to do was polish the mandrel down 1 thou, which again i got the advice from members. By the way i have better neck tension now.

I sized some brass in .220 swift with a RCBS neck sizer the brass stretched 5 thou in all cases. Needed to trim all cases they do work the brass a lot more than than the collet die.

wncchester · August 13, 2008, 08:24 AM

butta - "The only thing i had to do was polish the mandrel down 1 thou, which again i got the advice from members. By the way i have better neck tension now."

Glad to hear it worked for you.

steve4102 · August 13, 2008, 05:35 PM

One more item to remember about neck sizing. As some point neck sized brass will no longer chamber. At this point it is time to size the case body and bump the shoulder back just a bit. IMO there is no better combination than the Lee Collet Die for neck sizing and the Redding body die for bumping the shoulders back. The body die only sizes the case body and shoulder and does not touch the neck, keeps run-out to a minimum.

August 11, 2008, 11:29 PM	#1
RB98SS Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2007 Location: Shoreview, MN Posts: 104	Neck sizer 30-06 ??? I've decided to neck size my cases from here forward as I only am reloading for one rifle and the benefits of case life alone is enough reason for me. I currently have the RCBS 3 die set that has a FL sizer and am going to order a neck sizer. I'm looking for opinions as to whether or not there is a benefit to using the Lee Collet Neck Sizer Die vs. the normal neck sizer dies, and also opinions from those that have used both, what their thoughts are. Thanks in advance.

August 12, 2008, 12:03 AM	#2
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	I use collet dies for everything I shoot except the 223 for my AR. I have used them for years, ever since I first heard about them. They work very well. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

August 12, 2008, 02:01 AM	#3
HOGGHEAD Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2008 Location: Rivesville, WV Posts: 637	Neck Sizing IMO I would not use a collet die unless you are going to turn your necks. You can cause pressure spikes, and get bad SD's because of different neck tensions on the bullet. I personally do not like the lee dies, but again that is just my opinion. If your only reason is to increase brass life then just back off your FL sizer. Why spend the money?? Tom.

August 12, 2008, 08:16 AM	#6
sundog Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Green Country, OK Posts: 782	The collet neck sizer is by far the way to go. Besides reducing runout (and, yes an outside neck turn would also help make necks more consistent) it substanstially reduces stretching because there is no ball passing through. Hogghead, I fail to see how collet neck sizing can cause pressure spikes. Makes no difference if PFL size or neck size. If inside diameter is same, with or without neck turn as long as all cases are the same, neck tensions will be the same. __________________ safety first

August 12, 2008, 11:47 AM	#8
Smokey Joe Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2001 Location: State of Confusion Posts: 2,106	Comparison... When I first got my first Lee Collet Neck-sizing die, I had a shoot-off between FL-sized cases and LCNS cases, indentical load otherwise, same rifle. Rifle was a .30-'06 Bubba-ized 'O3A3 made by Remington, with a Timney trigger and a Redfield 4x 'scope (from back when Redfields were made in Colorado.) Was careful to eliminate shooter fatigue, and used a sandbag rest so the shooter hold was eliminated also. And I'm a pretty fair shot besides. The results were quite clear: The Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die did make ammo which, using that load, in that rifle, printed notably smaller groups than did the FL sized ammo. That was many years ago. IIRC, the FL-sized 10-shot groups were about 1" in diameter. The LCNS-sized groups were a bit less than 1". So I was convinced of the truth of Lee's brag that the LCNS die will make you the most accurate ammo. Since then, when I set myself up for reloading a new rifle cartridge, one of the first things I get is a new Lee Collet Neck-Sizing die for that cartridge. Had to have Lee custom-make one for me in .300 WSM, back when that cartridge was new on the scene. Will that do for a testimonial? __________________ God Bless America --Smokey Joe

August 12, 2008, 07:14 AM	#4
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"whether or not there is a benefit to using the Lee Collet Neck Sizer Die vs. the normal neck sizer dies" Yes, very much so. All conventional neck sizers decrease the necks well below the finished diameter and then expand them back up to bullet diameter minus about .001". The Lee Collet Neck Sizers take necks down to about .001" below and stop there, thus we have a minimum of working the brass. As a second benefit, conventional expander plugs tend to pull necks out of line due to variations in neck thickness or alloy variations. The Lee Collet does not expand, so the necks will be straighter after sizing. Another thing I really like about the Lee Collet is that there is no need to turn necks to a consistant thickness before sizing, as is the case with the various button type neck sizers.

August 12, 2008, 07:20 AM	#5
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,952	The Lee Collet Die is simply the best tool for the job. It requires no lube and produces the most concentric(run-out free) brass you can get. Neck tension is much more consistant than with standard neck sizers as the brass is shaped around a mandrel not undersized and then opened back up with the POS expander ball like standard neck dies.

August 12, 2008, 11:27 AM	#7
FM12 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: Monroeville, Alabama Posts: 1,683	Another vote for the Lee collett. May not work for ammo used in semi-autos, however.

August 12, 2008, 02:04 PM	#9
RB98SS Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2007 Location: Shoreview, MN Posts: 104	Wow. Thanks for all the great feedback. Collet it is.

August 12, 2008, 03:02 PM	#10
HOGGHEAD Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2008 Location: Rivesville, WV Posts: 637	Collet Could some one please explain to me how you can use a collet die without turning the necks?? I turn necks(but only a little). How can a collet die consistently "downsize" the neck enough to where the mandrel can give uniform neck tension without a uniform neck thickness?? How else can you control neck tension without controlling the neck thickness?? You would have to use an oversized collet die to be able to size all the brass if you did not turn the necks, because some necks will be bigger?? You can not size a neck over a madrel if the neck is larger than the collet?? Unless you are telling me that you are stretching your brass?? It is not a fair comparison to compare a FL sizer to a NS for accuracy. If you want to compare something then compare accuracy between untrimmed necks, and necks turned minimally, and then sized with the PROPER collet. The PROPER collet size is the key(IMO). Pressure spikes might have been an overstatement. But I truly believe you will have higher SD's without turning the necks. Especially with a collet die. I agree with you guys about the expander ball. I use the Sinclair sizing mandrel in a totally separate step. But then I am not in a hurry. Tom.

August 12, 2008, 03:35 PM	#11
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	Hogg, I think you are confusing Lee's Collet neck sizer and the various replacable neck sizer button dies on the market. Not the same, in fact they are entirely different. Lee did have a cut-away illustration on their web site at one time, if it's still there it will/should show you the difference.

August 12, 2008, 04:54 PM	#12
Smokey Joe Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2001 Location: State of Confusion Posts: 2,106	How??? Hogghead--with the Lee Collet die, the INSIDE of the neck is made to be the correct diameter. The thickness of the brass will cause variation, if any, to the size of the OUTSIDE of the neck. Since the inside of the neck is where you put the bullet, and since all the insides are the same diameter, exactly how thick the neck is will have only small (more so than none at all, I'm sure) effect on the neck tension. And all w/o turning necks or any of that esoteric stuff. I'm sure that benchresters would scoff @ the crudity of the procedure. I'm equally sure that the gain in accuracy over FL sizing is (1) real, and (2) of use to the "average shooter" as opposed to a benchrester or an upper-level high-power competitor. __________________ God Bless America --Smokey Joe

August 12, 2008, 06:08 PM	#13
HankB Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2000 Location: Central Texas, outside of Austin Posts: 1,698	Another vote for the Lee collet die. Without an expander ball to drag through an undersized neck, the cases don't stretch as much during the reloading process, even as compared to "conventional" neck sizing dies. __________________ To be kind to your enemy is to be cruel to yourself - Sun Tzu

August 13, 2008, 04:24 AM	#14
butta9999 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2008 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Posts: 692	Collet die. I asked the same question a few weeks ago. The collet die is the tool for the job. I got very positive feed back from members and alot of advice. I have since bought a collet die for my .300 win mag and it works a beaut. No stretching of the neck and no lube required. There is a little fine tuning to do when setting up the die. The only thing i had to do was polish the mandrel down 1 thou, which again i got the advice from members. By the way i have better neck tension now. I sized some brass in .220 swift with a RCBS neck sizer the brass stretched 5 thou in all cases. Needed to trim all cases they do work the brass a lot more than than the collet die.

August 13, 2008, 08:24 AM	#15
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	butta - "The only thing i had to do was polish the mandrel down 1 thou, which again i got the advice from members. By the way i have better neck tension now." Glad to hear it worked for you.

August 13, 2008, 05:35 PM	#16
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,952	One more item to remember about neck sizing. As some point neck sized brass will no longer chamber. At this point it is time to size the case body and bump the shoulder back just a bit. IMO there is no better combination than the Lee Collet Die for neck sizing and the Redding body die for bumping the shoulders back. The body die only sizes the case body and shoulder and does not touch the neck, keeps run-out to a minimum.