When to use slugs for HD? - Page 2

Jedi Oomodo · June 2, 2000, 01:20 AM

Glamdring,

It's been several months, but I'm reasonably certain it was buck shot. I've never heard of "turkey shot".

------------------
"Anakin! Tell them to go to the TFL End of Summer Meet !"

If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!

Shok · June 2, 2000, 08:35 AM

Turkey shot is #4 bird shot not buckshot. The difference between turkey load and game load is that it is faster and has 1 1/4 oz or more of shot. The shot also has higher antimony (magnum shot) and is nickel or copper plated. This makes it very hard and wont deform which produces denser patterns.

Shok

Jedi Oomodo · June 2, 2000, 10:46 PM

Thank you for clearing that up, Shok. So, when Ilook at a box of shells and it says "#4" how do I know if it's buck or bird? Granted, I haven't looked at a lot of boxes of SG shells, but I don't recell the ones that I have seen specifying the shot type. Was I just not looking hard enough?

Also, I was talking to a friend the other day, and he brought up another good reason to use slugs- it is becoming more and more common for the BGs to be wearing body armor. While I'm not a Kevlar expert, from what I've read even a Class II vest will stop buck shot, but I believe slugs would penetrate. Anyone else have any info, anecdotal or empirical, about the effectiveness of slugs against Kevlar? FYI, I'm not planning to use this info against LEOs- I'm a good boy!

If you don't want to post such info on a public forum, email me instead.

------------------
"Anakin! Tell them to go to the TFL End of Summer Meet !"

If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!

Glamdring · June 4, 2000, 01:58 AM

Buckshot should usually be in a 5 round box. Though some of the turkey loads are in 10 round boxes.
Usually most birdshot is sold in 25 round boxes.
Also the box should be marked as "No. 4 buck" or No. 4 Shot. I suggest getting an ammo cat. from whatever brand you prefer. Or start with Federal. If you want email me and I can send you links to the main ammo companies. With a cat or the website you can get the product number for the load you want. I have found that is the best way to get what you want. Is going by the order number...for example Federal Tactical/Low recoil OO Buck is "H132 OO" then either Tactical or Low recoil for the order number. No one really seems to know if there is any difference between the Tac and low recoil load...i have 4 boxes marked "Tactical" but the hulls all say "Low Recoil".

Most gun shops can order you ammo that you want or you can get it online or mail order. But to be sure your getting what you want get the order number first.

Dave McC · June 5, 2000, 08:28 AM

I'd find that topic interesting, Erick, please post.

A B-more cop some years ago took a shotgun round at contact range square in the middle of his/her Kevlar. While he/she survived w/o long term problems, he/she was unable to return fire, situation resolved by the cop's partner.

Huck · June 5, 2000, 11:42 PM

I agree with Dave McC. The energy will be spread out with the shot, the slug would be akin to punching a BG with a couple of Harley Davidsons the size of a quarter. It would bruise the heart and possibly paralyze the diaphram. I know which one I'd prefer to NOT have shot at me, vest or not. I watched a surgery about a guy that got shot with bird shot though, in the upper abdomen. The surgeons couldn't do anything due to the hundereds of little wounds. The guy died. Perhaps alternating rounds of shot/slug/shot? I don't go around "clearing" my house anymore. I take a defensive position and make them choose to die or leave us alone. They can take anything they want in the house, but if they come down that hallway, they aren't leaving with anything other than a toe tag.

June 2, 2000, 01:20 AM	#26
Jedi Oomodo Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 1999 Location: Garland, Tx Posts: 351	Glamdring, It's been several months, but I'm reasonably certain it was buck shot. I've never heard of "turkey shot". ------------------ "Anakin! Tell them to go to the TFL End of Summer Meet !" If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!

June 2, 2000, 08:35 AM	#27
Shok Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2000 Location: IOWA USA Posts: 204	Turkey shot is #4 bird shot not buckshot. The difference between turkey load and game load is that it is faster and has 1 1/4 oz or more of shot. The shot also has higher antimony (magnum shot) and is nickel or copper plated. This makes it very hard and wont deform which produces denser patterns. Shok

June 2, 2000, 10:46 PM	#28
Jedi Oomodo Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 1999 Location: Garland, Tx Posts: 351	Thank you for clearing that up, Shok. So, when Ilook at a box of shells and it says "#4" how do I know if it's buck or bird? Granted, I haven't looked at a lot of boxes of SG shells, but I don't recell the ones that I have seen specifying the shot type. Was I just not looking hard enough? Also, I was talking to a friend the other day, and he brought up another good reason to use slugs- it is becoming more and more common for the BGs to be wearing body armor. While I'm not a Kevlar expert, from what I've read even a Class II vest will stop buck shot, but I believe slugs would penetrate. Anyone else have any info, anecdotal or empirical, about the effectiveness of slugs against Kevlar? FYI, I'm not planning to use this info against LEOs- I'm a good boy! If you don't want to post such info on a public forum, email me instead. ------------------ "Anakin! Tell them to go to the TFL End of Summer Meet !" If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!

June 4, 2000, 01:58 AM	#29
Glamdring Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2000 Location: MN Posts: 1,388	Buckshot should usually be in a 5 round box. Though some of the turkey loads are in 10 round boxes. Usually most birdshot is sold in 25 round boxes. Also the box should be marked as "No. 4 buck" or No. 4 Shot. I suggest getting an ammo cat. from whatever brand you prefer. Or start with Federal. If you want email me and I can send you links to the main ammo companies. With a cat or the website you can get the product number for the load you want. I have found that is the best way to get what you want. Is going by the order number...for example Federal Tactical/Low recoil OO Buck is "H132 OO" then either Tactical or Low recoil for the order number. No one really seems to know if there is any difference between the Tac and low recoil load...i have 4 boxes marked "Tactical" but the hulls all say "Low Recoil". Most gun shops can order you ammo that you want or you can get it online or mail order. But to be sure your getting what you want get the order number first.

June 5, 2000, 08:28 AM	#30
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	I'd find that topic interesting, Erick, please post. A B-more cop some years ago took a shotgun round at contact range square in the middle of his/her Kevlar. While he/she survived w/o long term problems, he/she was unable to return fire, situation resolved by the cop's partner.

June 5, 2000, 11:42 PM	#31
Huck Junior Member Join Date: June 4, 2000 Location: Bakersfield, CA, US of A Posts: 4	I agree with Dave McC. The energy will be spread out with the shot, the slug would be akin to punching a BG with a couple of Harley Davidsons the size of a quarter. It would bruise the heart and possibly paralyze the diaphram. I know which one I'd prefer to NOT have shot at me, vest or not. I watched a surgery about a guy that got shot with bird shot though, in the upper abdomen. The surgeons couldn't do anything due to the hundereds of little wounds. The guy died. Perhaps alternating rounds of shot/slug/shot? I don't go around "clearing" my house anymore. I take a defensive position and make them choose to die or leave us alone. They can take anything they want in the house, but if they come down that hallway, they aren't leaving with anything other than a toe tag.