Why are doubles so expensive?

JohnPL · October 12, 2001, 12:29 PM

What warrants such high prices? Material? Workmanship? The designs of doubles seem relatively simple compared to auto's-less moving parts, anyway. If it is simply the "snobby" factor, I would think that my Stoeger, without the fine fit and finish and reputation, should be a servicable arm for years, assuming quality materials comparable to a similarly priced pump or auto. I know barrel regulation is key-is it difficult (and costly) to accomplish? Believe me, I appreciate a fine gun as much as anyone, but I also don't want to cry every time the thorns and briars of the grouse covers scratch a $5000 shotgun. BTW, I'm not as cheap as I sound...

krept · October 12, 2001, 07:38 PM

Not sure about SxS but from what I have heard about Over/unders...

The mechanisms involved have to be miniaturized and are thus harder to manufacture to get all the little pieces in the same amount of space. Then you have the quality of the action, etc. Kind of like the difference between full sized and compact pistols.

The compact version will usually warrant a little extra work to get it all in there and functioning.

Again, I don't even have a shotgun, I could be wrong. (great forum though!)

huntsman · October 12, 2001, 08:10 PM

I think you've hit on two of the biggest reasons (materials and workmanship) but don't discount maket buying trends . If the average joe hunter wanted to buy doubles in a big enough demand ,then someone would figure out a way to cut manufacturing costs to produce a product aceptable to the gun buying public.
As to you Stoger I have never owned one but a friend I know a (gunsmith/machinist) after taking a stoger apart remarked how crude it was internaly, how parts lacked the fit and finish you'd expect to see in something as complicated as a firearm.This same man marveled at the quality built into a Fulton he was working on , now this is a "Hardware gun" that hasn't been manufactured since 1946 but can be bought used from $150.- 350. at least that's what I've paid for them.
Maybe the stoger and baikal and huglu are reasonable low end doubles but I'm personaly more confident with a good condition used stevens or savage or fulton .

PJR · October 12, 2001, 10:01 PM

Materials, workmanship and the time put in to the gun defines the price. The Stoeger is cheaper because it doesn't require the amount of human time put in to its manufacture. It is also made in a part of the world where labour is also cheaper. This is why the Chinese can make a copy of the 870 and even with shipping and import tax undercut Remington's prices.

The Stoeger will get the job done. A Yugo will also get you from point A to B. But if deep blueing, oil finished high-grade walnut, engraving, crisp triggers, spectacular balance, finely struck barrels with chokes to order, etc. then be prepared to pay for the privelege.

Is it worth it? Well that's up to you. I ordered an Arrieta 871 two years ago, made to my specifications, and its a very good gun in the field. Have I killed more birds? Probably but not enough to justify the expense. And despite its good looks, it goes in to the thickets and has a scratch or two already. That's fine by me because the gun was made to be hunted and it goes where I go.

krept · October 13, 2001, 12:09 AM

Ok, just to help me out in the future... is a "double" a SxS or O/U?

SpazzTrap · October 13, 2001, 01:08 AM

To answer your question:

Quote:

is a "double" a SxS or O/U?

It can be either, I have heard both refered to as double guns. Generally though, the term "double" is refering to a SxS.

As stated above, the difference between a 500 buck SG and a 5000 one is noticable in the machining and quality of the inner workings. From 5 grand up (and 5 grand is the low end of the spectrum for a "best grade" gun), the price seems to have more to do with finishing, wood, and engraving.

Just to make yourself weep, pick up a copy of the magazine "Shooting Sportsman" and take a gander at some of the INCREDIBLE doubles they have in there. Some can only be described as functional art. It isn't rare for some brands of best grade field guns sell for over $100,000! I read an snipet in a back issue of it about this particular gun engraver that has enough orders for his services that if he worked until he was like 110, he wouldn't be able to get them all done. People still order his work in the odd event that he would be able to complete it.

DLF · October 13, 2001, 09:33 AM

I have enjoyed this discussion very much. I agree with all the opinions on side by sides. I have an American Arms Brittany which I enjoy very much. It of course did not demand the price many others did. Also American Arms folded and I think Tristar is importing their line.

I also bought my son a Stoeger Uplander last Christmas. It is not as pretty as the Brittany, has poor fit and finish, seems very simple, but it seems very rugged and gets the job done. The biggest complaint I have with it is that the the trigger pull for the right barrel is terrible. It seems like you need a sledge hammer to move it.

Good Shooting,

October 12, 2001, 12:29 PM	#1
JohnPL Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2001 Posts: 105	Why are doubles so expensive? What warrants such high prices? Material? Workmanship? The designs of doubles seem relatively simple compared to auto's-less moving parts, anyway. If it is simply the "snobby" factor, I would think that my Stoeger, without the fine fit and finish and reputation, should be a servicable arm for years, assuming quality materials comparable to a similarly priced pump or auto. I know barrel regulation is key-is it difficult (and costly) to accomplish? Believe me, I appreciate a fine gun as much as anyone, but I also don't want to cry every time the thorns and briars of the grouse covers scratch a $5000 shotgun. BTW, I'm not as cheap as I sound...

October 12, 2001, 08:10 PM	#3
huntsman Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2000 Location: ohio Posts: 121	why are doubles so expensive ? I think you've hit on two of the biggest reasons (materials and workmanship) but don't discount maket buying trends . If the average joe hunter wanted to buy doubles in a big enough demand ,then someone would figure out a way to cut manufacturing costs to produce a product aceptable to the gun buying public. As to you Stoger I have never owned one but a friend I know a (gunsmith/machinist) after taking a stoger apart remarked how crude it was internaly, how parts lacked the fit and finish you'd expect to see in something as complicated as a firearm.This same man marveled at the quality built into a Fulton he was working on , now this is a "Hardware gun" that hasn't been manufactured since 1946 but can be bought used from $150.- 350. at least that's what I've paid for them. Maybe the stoger and baikal and huglu are reasonable low end doubles but I'm personaly more confident with a good condition used stevens or savage or fulton . __________________ cause he liked the quiet clean country livin and 20 more years slipped away -JB

October 13, 2001, 09:33 AM	#7
DLF Member Join Date: October 10, 1999 Location: Alpine, Al. USA Posts: 28	I have enjoyed this discussion very much. I agree with all the opinions on side by sides. I have an American Arms Brittany which I enjoy very much. It of course did not demand the price many others did. Also American Arms folded and I think Tristar is importing their line. I also bought my son a Stoeger Uplander last Christmas. It is not as pretty as the Brittany, has poor fit and finish, seems very simple, but it seems very rugged and gets the job done. The biggest complaint I have with it is that the the trigger pull for the right barrel is terrible. It seems like you need a sledge hammer to move it. Good Shooting, __________________ DLF

October 12, 2001, 07:38 PM	#2
krept Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2000 Location: AZ Posts: 1,363	Not sure about SxS but from what I have heard about Over/unders... The mechanisms involved have to be miniaturized and are thus harder to manufacture to get all the little pieces in the same amount of space. Then you have the quality of the action, etc. Kind of like the difference between full sized and compact pistols. The compact version will usually warrant a little extra work to get it all in there and functioning. Again, I don't even have a shotgun, I could be wrong. (great forum though!)

October 12, 2001, 10:01 PM	#4
PJR Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2000 Posts: 1,127	Materials, workmanship and the time put in to the gun defines the price. The Stoeger is cheaper because it doesn't require the amount of human time put in to its manufacture. It is also made in a part of the world where labour is also cheaper. This is why the Chinese can make a copy of the 870 and even with shipping and import tax undercut Remington's prices. The Stoeger will get the job done. A Yugo will also get you from point A to B. But if deep blueing, oil finished high-grade walnut, engraving, crisp triggers, spectacular balance, finely struck barrels with chokes to order, etc. then be prepared to pay for the privelege. Is it worth it? Well that's up to you. I ordered an Arrieta 871 two years ago, made to my specifications, and its a very good gun in the field. Have I killed more birds? Probably but not enough to justify the expense. And despite its good looks, it goes in to the thickets and has a scratch or two already. That's fine by me because the gun was made to be hunted and it goes where I go.

October 13, 2001, 12:09 AM	#5
krept Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2000 Location: AZ Posts: 1,363	Ok, just to help me out in the future... is a "double" a SxS or O/U?