Is this G2 package a good deal?

mlk3454 · January 20, 2010, 07:33 PM

Well I missed out on the encore deal; however, I was in a gander mountain and saw a G2 package for $750 which included 4 barrels (22LR, 218Bee, 222Rem, and 30-30), an extra grip with a swivel stud (one of the barrels had the other swivel stud on it), and sling.

How does this package sound? I would only keep the 22LR barrel and would probably trade out barrels to 7-30waters or 30-30AI.

cole k · January 20, 2010, 07:36 PM

Sounds good to me.

Brian Pfleuger · January 20, 2010, 07:45 PM

Well, just off the top off my head....

The G2 rifle is something like $600-$650, each barrel is at least $200, usually more like $240... so the total would be $1200, at least, NIB.

$750 seems pretty good, assuming it in acceptable condition for you.

mlk3454 · January 20, 2010, 08:46 PM

I didn't get a chance to look the whole thing over but it did seem like the extras would give me room to make up some of the cost of the package and to trade to a caliber that I like.

BTW it is a pistol not a rifle.

G2's can't go from rifle to pistol right? Do I have to worry about a previous owner changing that?

Brian Pfleuger · January 20, 2010, 08:54 PM

Quote:

BTW it is a pistol not a rifle.

Ah, ok. Well, that doesn't change the price much. The rifles are SLIGHTLY higher, I think, but not much.

Quote:

G2's can't go from rifle to pistol right? Do I have to worry about a previous owner changing that?

That is correct. Although there is still some argument on the "pistol to rifle and back again thing". I did some research recently because I am looking to get an Encore pistol myself. My research convinced me that there is no longer a legal issue with the ATF but along will come other who will tell you differently.

In any case, TC themselves told me that there is no issue, the Powers That Be in New York told me that it's fine, every dealer that I've talked to has said that it's fine and, like I said, the research that I did on my own told me that it is fine.

Short story: If it starts as a pistol then pistol to rifle and back again is fine, so long as the rifle stock and pistol barrel are never connected at the same time. If it starts as a rifle then it is forever a rifle, unless you pay the $200 tax to ATF and the weapon would be legal in your jurisdiction.

So far as how you tell, I don't know. I assume that the dealer would have had to run the serial and would have found out that it was supposed to be a rifle. I'd ask them about it. They certainly don't want to sell you an illegal gun. Edit: Apparently the only way to tell for sure if it's "supposed to be" a rifle or handgun is to call TC.

Here's a link to the Supreme Court decision. It should be convincing.

mlk3454 · January 21, 2010, 07:02 AM

Thanks for the replies and research peetzakilla. I was reading horror stories on another site about the ATF and buying an encore/contender that was intended for a different purpose. I was unclear if a G2 could be converted though so was a bit worried on that.

That being said, I think I may take a hard look at it tomorrow when I am in that area again.

Where in central NY are you from?

mikejonestkd · January 21, 2010, 07:18 AM

I hope you get the contender, that's a great price for the handgun and the barrels.

Peetza is absolutely correct about the pistol/ rifle conversion legalities. One small variation that is allowed in NY is the following : An encore or contender rifle that is used can be registered as a pistol in NY. It can not ever be sold as a pistol but the owner can convert it for their own use. I know several people that have legally registered their converted rifles on their NYS permits as pistols. The AFT might have a different take on it, but as long as you don't try to sell it as a pistol, or take it out of state there doesn't seem much chance of them getting involved.

Brian Pfleuger · January 21, 2010, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikejonestkd

One small variation that is allowed in NY is the following : An encore or contender rifle that is used can be registered as a pistol in NY. It can not ever be sold as a pistol but the owner can convert it for their own use. I know several people that have legally registered their converted rifles on their NYS permits as pistols.

I wondered about that myself, Mike. One of the dealers told me that it can't be done but I don't see why not.

It seems though, that the ATF still has issues with that particular conversion. Read through this letter and tell me what you think? Like so much of bureaucratic nonsense, it's practically unintelligible to me.

mikejonestkd · January 21, 2010, 01:15 PM

Peetza, Thanks for the link to the BATFE letter. Its position is best summarized as " once a rifle, always a rifle ". It is my understanding that each frame starts life in the factory either as a dedicated pistol or a dedicated rifle frame and the company records will show by serial number the original designation if they search. If the BATFE wanted to investigate a particular weapon they easily can find out the original configuration and take legal action if the weapon is a rifle modified to become a pistol.

It has also been my understanding that NYS doesn't care about the origin of the frame, as long as it is registered on your permit. I have not heard of any issues with the state prosecuting individuals over this matter. In the long run it would be best to purchase a TC contender or encore as a pistol, then you have no risk of running afoul of the law.

Additional: In NYS a dealer can not sell you a new rifle frame, along with a pistol barrel, grips and forend. If the frame is used is must be sold in the same config as they logged it in as, but you are free to buy grips and barrels once you take posession of it and add it to your permit.

Brian Pfleuger · January 21, 2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

It has also been my understanding that NYS doesn't care about the origin of the frame, as long as it is registered on your permit. I have not heard of any issues with the state prosecuting individuals over this matter. In the long run it would be best to purchase a TC contender or encore as a pistol, then you have no risk of running afoul of the law.

It makes me wonder what they would do if you bought just the frame? What is it then? Rifle? Pistol? Both? Neither?

It's such a non-sensical bureaucratic pile of crap that it makes me ill. It's a good example of why I quit working for the federal government. No common sense, no logic. It's like they intentionally try to be ILlogical, just because they can.

Anyway, I have an email out to ATF asking about this issue. It will be interesting to see if I get ANY response, say nothing of a coherent one.

mikejonestkd · January 21, 2010, 05:02 PM

Good questions Peetza, let us know what the BATFE says. My limited knowledge consists of several dealers saying " NYS doesn't care whether it is a pistol or rifle frame, as long as it is registered on your NYS permit " This seems to be in clear contradiction the the Fed regs, especially the letter from the BATFE in your above link. The fact that NYS has not come after many people that have rifle frames registered as pistols gives me the impression that they don't know, or don't care.

I would guess that the best answer to the config of the frame should go to the original designation when it came from the factory - with the exception that the BATFE and the Supreme Court have already allowed pistols to legally converted to rifles as long as they follow the regs for length.

mlk3454 · January 22, 2010, 03:24 PM

Thanks for the input guys. I ended up putting some money down for the package. When I get it I will have to figure out which barrels stay/go and to start looking into some dies for them.

UniversalFrost · January 22, 2010, 04:05 PM

the 218bee is a heck of a round. I have been shooting it for years and taken many yotes with it.

if that was an encore barrel I would be all over it if you decided to sell it (I sold my contender and concentrated all my collection to encores).

C&H makes great dies for the Bee and graf has brass, plus some of the factories still due limited runs of 218bee (remmy and federal if i remember correctly).

JOE

mlk3454 · January 22, 2010, 05:22 PM

I figured I would keep either the 222 or the 218bee for some small varminting. I was leaning towards the 218 to sell as I heard that I should get a good buck for it and that 222 might be easier and have more choices for reloading.

I didn't think that the bee was recommended for yote sized game?

Brian Pfleuger · January 22, 2010, 05:38 PM

Quote:

I didn't think that the bee was recommended for yote sized game?

You could take coyote with it, it's a bit light on the energy scale in my opinion but you could certainly do it.

Of those choices, the 222 would certainly be the best coyote round. If it were me, I'd sell them all and get a 204Ruger or 22-250 barrel.

mlk3454 · January 23, 2010, 08:50 AM

I would like a nice long range deer round so I was considering sending the 30-30 barrel to modify it to AI and keep the 22lr for plinking and squirrels. I was unsure about the 222 for yotes and bigger varmints.

Why would you pick the 204 or 22-250 over the 222 or 223 for that matter?

Brian Pfleuger · January 23, 2010, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Why would you pick the 204 or 22-250 over the 222 or 223 for that matter?

Speed, trajectory, recoil, noise.

If I were keeping the pelts then I'd have to look for a bullet that didn't do too much damage. Although I suspect that you'd find that the 32gr 204 at 4200fps would do just fine. Even on woodchucks I frequently get no exit wound. I would think that on a coyote you almost never would. The 22-250 would have similar options to the 204.

On recoil, it's not like 222 or 223 are going to have high recoil, but the 204 generates very high energy levels with ZERO recoil, for all intents and purposes. I mean, it barely twitches.

Trajectory, compared to the 40gr 204, only the 22-250 and a couple of other cartridges with HOT handloads can match the 204, or even come close in most cases.

Noise, the 204 is quiet **for a center-fire rifle**, not anywhere near *quiet* but quietER. The 22-250 is definitely louder. The 223 is quite loud also, although I don't have as much experience with that round, it is noticeably louder in the few rifles that I've been around. The 222rem, I've never been around. It seems like it might be similar in noise to the 204, but that's just a guess.

mikejonestkd · January 23, 2010, 12:53 PM

The .22-250 is not an available/ safe chambering for a contender. The .222 that comes with the combo that you are looking at is more than adequate for most varmint hunting. It you have a desire to get another varmint barrel then the .204 or the .223 are great choices.

Brian Pfleuger · January 23, 2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

The .22-250 is not an available/ safe chambering for a contender.

No kidding. I never looked to see if it was available or not. Silly Brian, never assume.

mlk3454 · January 23, 2010, 01:14 PM

Thanks for the info guys. I never really looked into the 204. What is the effective range on yote sized varmints?

Brian Pfleuger · January 23, 2010, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the info guys. I never really looked into the 204. What is the effective range on yote sized varmints?

If you could hit them, it will kill them. 500 or more. The 40gr still has almost 400ft/lbs of energy at 500 with factory ammo.

January 20, 2010, 07:33 PM	#1
mlk3454 Member Join Date: May 21, 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 60	Is this G2 package a good deal? Well I missed out on the encore deal; however, I was in a gander mountain and saw a G2 package for $750 which included 4 barrels (22LR, 218Bee, 222Rem, and 30-30), an extra grip with a swivel stud (one of the barrels had the other swivel stud on it), and sling. How does this package sound? I would only keep the 22LR barrel and would probably trade out barrels to 7-30waters or 30-30AI.

January 20, 2010, 07:45 PM	#3
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Well, just off the top off my head.... The G2 rifle is something like $600-$650, each barrel is at least $200, usually more like $240... so the total would be $1200, at least, NIB. $750 seems pretty good, assuming it in acceptable condition for you. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

January 21, 2010, 07:18 AM	#7
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	I hope you get the contender, that's a great price for the handgun and the barrels. Peetza is absolutely correct about the pistol/ rifle conversion legalities. One small variation that is allowed in NY is the following : An encore or contender rifle that is used can be registered as a pistol in NY. It can not ever be sold as a pistol but the owner can convert it for their own use. I know several people that have legally registered their converted rifles on their NYS permits as pistols. The AFT might have a different take on it, but as long as you don't try to sell it as a pistol, or take it out of state there doesn't seem much chance of them getting involved. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

January 21, 2010, 01:15 PM	#9
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	Peetza, Thanks for the link to the BATFE letter. Its position is best summarized as " once a rifle, always a rifle ". It is my understanding that each frame starts life in the factory either as a dedicated pistol or a dedicated rifle frame and the company records will show by serial number the original designation if they search. If the BATFE wanted to investigate a particular weapon they easily can find out the original configuration and take legal action if the weapon is a rifle modified to become a pistol. It has also been my understanding that NYS doesn't care about the origin of the frame, as long as it is registered on your permit. I have not heard of any issues with the state prosecuting individuals over this matter. In the long run it would be best to purchase a TC contender or encore as a pistol, then you have no risk of running afoul of the law. Additional: In NYS a dealer can not sell you a new rifle frame, along with a pistol barrel, grips and forend. If the frame is used is must be sold in the same config as they logged it in as, but you are free to buy grips and barrels once you take posession of it and add it to your permit. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth. Last edited by mikejonestkd; January 21, 2010 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Edit: remembered more info....

January 21, 2010, 05:02 PM	#11
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	Good questions Peetza, let us know what the BATFE says. My limited knowledge consists of several dealers saying " NYS doesn't care whether it is a pistol or rifle frame, as long as it is registered on your NYS permit " This seems to be in clear contradiction the the Fed regs, especially the letter from the BATFE in your above link. The fact that NYS has not come after many people that have rifle frames registered as pistols gives me the impression that they don't know, or don't care. I would guess that the best answer to the config of the frame should go to the original designation when it came from the factory - with the exception that the BATFE and the Supreme Court have already allowed pistols to legally converted to rifles as long as they follow the regs for length. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

January 20, 2010, 07:36 PM	#2
cole k Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2008 Location: east of the Big Muddy Posts: 248	Sounds good to me.

January 20, 2010, 08:46 PM	#4
mlk3454 Member Join Date: May 21, 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 60	I didn't get a chance to look the whole thing over but it did seem like the extras would give me room to make up some of the cost of the package and to trade to a caliber that I like. BTW it is a pistol not a rifle. G2's can't go from rifle to pistol right? Do I have to worry about a previous owner changing that?

January 21, 2010, 07:02 AM	#6
mlk3454 Member Join Date: May 21, 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 60	Thanks for the replies and research peetzakilla. I was reading horror stories on another site about the ATF and buying an encore/contender that was intended for a different purpose. I was unclear if a G2 could be converted though so was a bit worried on that. That being said, I think I may take a hard look at it tomorrow when I am in that area again. Where in central NY are you from?

January 22, 2010, 03:24 PM	#12
mlk3454 Member Join Date: May 21, 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 60	Thanks for the input guys. I ended up putting some money down for the package. When I get it I will have to figure out which barrels stay/go and to start looking into some dies for them.

January 22, 2010, 04:05 PM	#13
UniversalFrost Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,300	the 218bee is a heck of a round. I have been shooting it for years and taken many yotes with it. if that was an encore barrel I would be all over it if you decided to sell it (I sold my contender and concentrated all my collection to encores). C&H makes great dies for the Bee and graf has brass, plus some of the factories still due limited runs of 218bee (remmy and federal if i remember correctly). JOE __________________ Lifetime member VFW and NRA "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (when all else fails play dead) -Red Green

January 22, 2010, 05:22 PM	#14
mlk3454 Member Join Date: May 21, 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 60	I figured I would keep either the 222 or the 218bee for some small varminting. I was leaning towards the 218 to sell as I heard that I should get a good buck for it and that 222 might be easier and have more choices for reloading. I didn't think that the bee was recommended for yote sized game?

January 23, 2010, 08:50 AM	#16
mlk3454 Member Join Date: May 21, 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 60	I would like a nice long range deer round so I was considering sending the 30-30 barrel to modify it to AI and keep the 22lr for plinking and squirrels. I was unsure about the 222 for yotes and bigger varmints. Why would you pick the 204 or 22-250 over the 222 or 223 for that matter?

January 23, 2010, 12:53 PM	#18
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	The .22-250 is not an available/ safe chambering for a contender. The .222 that comes with the combo that you are looking at is more than adequate for most varmint hunting. It you have a desire to get another varmint barrel then the .204 or the .223 are great choices. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

January 23, 2010, 01:14 PM	#20
mlk3454 Member Join Date: May 21, 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 60	Thanks for the info guys. I never really looked into the 204. What is the effective range on yote sized varmints?