more sporting? - Page 3

davlandrum · January 13, 2010, 01:39 PM

So your real issue is with the English Language:

Dictionary.com
Sportsman
1. a man who engages in sports, esp. in some open-air sport, as hunting, fishing, racing, etc.
2. a person who exhibits qualities especially esteemed in those who engage in sports, as fairness, courtesy, good temper, etc.

Merriam-Webster
Sportsman
1 : a person who engages in sports (as hunting or fishing)
2 : a person who shows sportsmanship

Dictionary.net
Sportsman \Sports"man\ (sp[=o]rts"man), n.;pl. Sportsmen (-men). One who pursues the sports of the field; one who hunts, fishes, etc. [1913 Webster]

So while your circular logic had everyone (me) chasing down some arbitrary correlation to an athletic competition sport, the reality is we are using the term correctly. Dictionaries are developed and updated through common usage. If I had to go out on a limb, I would guess it came from the times when the noblility would hunt for sport, even though they did not need to do so to eat.

How is Polk these days? I was stationed there in the mid-80's when 5th ID (Mech) was still there. Got to say I hated it there in general, but being able to rent bass boats up at Toledo Bend and fish made it bearable.

Art Eatman · January 13, 2010, 02:20 PM

"Again, the rules arn't set up in the sake of fairness, but to keep hunters from wiping out the species like they've done so many times before."

That is so wrong that it hurts.

Hunters comprise the group which set up the system of rules under which we hunt by, today. "Sport" hunters are the ones who have spent more time and money for wildlife conservation, preservation and enhancement than any other group. The federal taxes on our gear are self-imposed: Pitman/Robinson, Dingell/Johnson. We're the ones whose system via license fees provides the money for wildlife research and for game wardens.

Market hunting was the cause of the demise of the passenger pigeon, along with clearing of their forest habitat. The bison were nearly exterminated as a matter of US Government policy, "...to remove the commissary of the Plains Indian." The value of ivory caused the widespread killing of elephants.

No species which is subject to sport hunting is in any danger; on the contrary, almost all are increasing in numbers.

Please, semi_problamatic, learn something about the subject. Please don't be part of the problem.

Major Dave (retired) · January 13, 2010, 02:24 PM

Enjoyable pastime

Chance to get away

Relief from the pressures of everyday life

An adventure

It's like waiting for Christmas morning to open the presents!

It's suspenseful!

As I "sneak and peek" slowly from one ridgeline down into the hollow and up onto the next ridgeline. It takes me about an hour to move 100 yards, and my sense of discovery, awareness of my surroundings, and sense of being alive are so intense as to be intoxicating - absolutely addictive. Adrenaline and all of the hormones of being a living being are overwhelming for me.

Failure - no horns, no meat - so what?!! I have been ALIVE! What a RUSH. Heart, mind, soul - I EXIST, therefore I HUNT!

God is good!!

semi_problomatic · January 13, 2010, 07:06 PM

Major Dave this is not about hunting being good or bad, I just don't consider it a sport. I've got nothing against hunting, hunters, anything like that. I just don't consider it a sport.

Well Polks still....Polk I guess. I'm from Mississippi so I like it more than most. I'm in 3-89, 10th MTN

AND I realize that NOW hunters put the most into conservation, but at the same time its not exactly voluntary. Taxes, hunting licenses, etc etc. I'm sure if they stopped limiting size, amount, and season of any animal hunted its days would be short numbered indeed. My argument wasn't about the killing of animals so much as it was that the rules weren't made to give the animals a better chance as they were made to keep the population up.

And I know the deff. of sportsman, which is why I said it was ironic. For hundreds of years they said the earth was flat....you do know the earth isn't flat, right? Just because popular belief is such, doesn't actually mean its true.

davlandrum · January 13, 2010, 08:04 PM

Off-topic:

I spent a fair amount of time in 10th MTN, up at Fort Drum - 2nd Bde mostly. I was the brigade motor officer for the first iteration of the Somalia deployment.

Funny how the 10th is at two of the worst posts in the US - Polk :barf: and Drum :barf:

Can't say I didn't learn a heck of a lot from both places, big influences on my life.

Uncle Buck · January 13, 2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

I'm sure if they stopped limiting size, amount, and season of any animal hunted its days would be short numbered indeed.

If that is really what you believe, then I am sorry that you have not spent any time with real hunters and sportsmen.

Done.

semi_problomatic · January 13, 2010, 09:51 PM

Quite frankly it doesn't matter how many "real" hunters I've known. All that really matters is how many people hunt. It's great that there are hunters who would only take what they needed or whatever their standard may be, but the truth of the matter is there are all too many who would kill until they weren't able to find any more to kill. And it wouldn't matter if you only shot 1 or 3 a year, because they'd be shooting as many as they could as often as they could. As it is there are already people who have no scruples against shooting as many deer in a herd as they can at once during season; let alone those that shoot deer out of season. What if there were no limits and no seasons? You think they were put there for giggles? "The Man" just trying to hold you back? If so I've got a big golden bridge to sell you reeaalll cheap. I've heard people brag about killing up to 7 deer in one day. Which means all your reserve and self-superiority at being a "real" hunter would just mean bumbkiss. Glad it makes you feel good though.

Done. (I can do it too) *Sits here with his arms crossed and a smug look on his face* cut scene 2, exit stage left.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'd have to hibernate 9 months out of the year at Drum.

troy_mclure · January 14, 2010, 06:55 AM

my dad took 9 deer a few years ago in ohio, took 2 days to do it, but he had a tag for each one, 7 land owner and his 2. it was perfectly legal. he had deer meat all year, and helped the farmer reduce the damage to his soybean fields all at the same time.

i see no problem with taking multiple deer in one day, especialy in the very badly overpopulated north east.

2damnold4this · January 14, 2010, 07:54 AM

Major Dave this is not about hunting being good or bad, I just don't consider it a sport. I've got nothing against hunting, hunters, anything like that. I just don't consider it a sport....

And I know the deff. of sportsman, which is why I said it was ironic. For hundreds of years they said the earth was flat....you do know the earth isn't flat, right? Just because popular belief is such, doesn't actually mean its true.

I see. Since the ancient Babylonians believed the world was flat, our dictionaries today are wrong about hunting.

Art Eatman · January 14, 2010, 12:30 PM

Enuf. This is just chasing in circles, getting nowhere...

semi_problomatic · January 14, 2010, 12:34 PM

Ancient babaloynians? LMAO are you serious? Do you have no idea of history? Into the 16th Century for the christian religion and the 17th for the Chinese people still believed the world was flat. Gun powder has been around longer than the knowledge of a spherical Earth. As late as the 1980's there was a "Flat Earth Society" with a few thousand followers.

Sure, the ancient greeks, muslims, and egyptains all PROVED the earth was spherical....but that still wasn't popular belief.... interesting, wouldn't you agree?

January 13, 2010, 01:39 PM	#51
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	So your real issue is with the English Language: Dictionary.com Sportsman 1. a man who engages in sports, esp. in some open-air sport, as hunting, fishing, racing, etc. 2. a person who exhibits qualities especially esteemed in those who engage in sports, as fairness, courtesy, good temper, etc. Merriam-Webster Sportsman 1 : a person who engages in sports (as hunting or fishing) 2 : a person who shows sportsmanship Dictionary.net Sportsman \Sports"man\ (sp[=o]rts"man), n.;pl. Sportsmen (-men). One who pursues the sports of the field; one who hunts, fishes, etc. [1913 Webster] So while your circular logic had everyone (me) chasing down some arbitrary correlation to an athletic competition sport, the reality is we are using the term correctly. Dictionaries are developed and updated through common usage. If I had to go out on a limb, I would guess it came from the times when the noblility would hunt for sport, even though they did not need to do so to eat. How is Polk these days? I was stationed there in the mid-80's when 5th ID (Mech) was still there. Got to say I hated it there in general, but being able to rent bass boats up at Toledo Bend and fish made it bearable. __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

January 13, 2010, 02:24 PM	#53
Major Dave (retired) Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2008 Location: Between Dallas and Shreveport, LA Posts: 569	Semi problomatic - It's a...it's a, it's a Enjoyable pastime Chance to get away Relief from the pressures of everyday life An adventure It's like waiting for Christmas morning to open the presents! It's suspenseful! As I "sneak and peek" slowly from one ridgeline down into the hollow and up onto the next ridgeline. It takes me about an hour to move 100 yards, and my sense of discovery, awareness of my surroundings, and sense of being alive are so intense as to be intoxicating - absolutely addictive. Adrenaline and all of the hormones of being a living being are overwhelming for me. Failure - no horns, no meat - so what?!! I have been ALIVE! What a RUSH. Heart, mind, soul - I EXIST, therefore I HUNT! God is good!! __________________ Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be but a vulgar brawl. Last edited by Major Dave (retired); January 13, 2010 at 02:29 PM. Reason: Typo

January 13, 2010, 07:06 PM	#54
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 883	Major Dave this is not about hunting being good or bad, I just don't consider it a sport. I've got nothing against hunting, hunters, anything like that. I just don't consider it a sport. Well Polks still....Polk I guess. I'm from Mississippi so I like it more than most. I'm in 3-89, 10th MTN AND I realize that NOW hunters put the most into conservation, but at the same time its not exactly voluntary. Taxes, hunting licenses, etc etc. I'm sure if they stopped limiting size, amount, and season of any animal hunted its days would be short numbered indeed. My argument wasn't about the killing of animals so much as it was that the rules weren't made to give the animals a better chance as they were made to keep the population up. And I know the deff. of sportsman, which is why I said it was ironic. For hundreds of years they said the earth was flat....you do know the earth isn't flat, right? Just because popular belief is such, doesn't actually mean its true. __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

January 13, 2010, 08:04 PM	#55
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	Off-topic: I spent a fair amount of time in 10th MTN, up at Fort Drum - 2nd Bde mostly. I was the brigade motor officer for the first iteration of the Somalia deployment. Funny how the 10th is at two of the worst posts in the US - Polk :barf: and Drum :barf: Can't say I didn't learn a heck of a lot from both places, big influences on my life. __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

January 13, 2010, 09:51 PM	#57
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 883	Quite frankly it doesn't matter how many "real" hunters I've known. All that really matters is how many people hunt. It's great that there are hunters who would only take what they needed or whatever their standard may be, but the truth of the matter is there are all too many who would kill until they weren't able to find any more to kill. And it wouldn't matter if you only shot 1 or 3 a year, because they'd be shooting as many as they could as often as they could. As it is there are already people who have no scruples against shooting as many deer in a herd as they can at once during season; let alone those that shoot deer out of season. What if there were no limits and no seasons? You think they were put there for giggles? "The Man" just trying to hold you back? If so I've got a big golden bridge to sell you reeaalll cheap. I've heard people brag about killing up to 7 deer in one day. Which means all your reserve and self-superiority at being a "real" hunter would just mean bumbkiss. Glad it makes you feel good though. Done. (I can do it too) Sits here with his arms crossed and a smug look on his face cut scene 2, exit stage left. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'd have to hibernate 9 months out of the year at Drum. __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello... Last edited by semi_problomatic; January 13, 2010 at 09:59 PM.

January 13, 2010, 02:20 PM	#52
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	"Again, the rules arn't set up in the sake of fairness, but to keep hunters from wiping out the species like they've done so many times before." That is so wrong that it hurts. Hunters comprise the group which set up the system of rules under which we hunt by, today. "Sport" hunters are the ones who have spent more time and money for wildlife conservation, preservation and enhancement than any other group. The federal taxes on our gear are self-imposed: Pitman/Robinson, Dingell/Johnson. We're the ones whose system via license fees provides the money for wildlife research and for game wardens. Market hunting was the cause of the demise of the passenger pigeon, along with clearing of their forest habitat. The bison were nearly exterminated as a matter of US Government policy, "...to remove the commissary of the Plains Indian." The value of ivory caused the widespread killing of elephants. No species which is subject to sport hunting is in any danger; on the contrary, almost all are increasing in numbers. Please, semi_problamatic, learn something about the subject. Please don't be part of the problem.

January 14, 2010, 06:55 AM	#58
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	my dad took 9 deer a few years ago in ohio, took 2 days to do it, but he had a tag for each one, 7 land owner and his 2. it was perfectly legal. he had deer meat all year, and helped the farmer reduce the damage to his soybean fields all at the same time. i see no problem with taking multiple deer in one day, especialy in the very badly overpopulated north east. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

January 14, 2010, 07:54 AM	#59
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	Major Dave this is not about hunting being good or bad, I just don't consider it a sport. I've got nothing against hunting, hunters, anything like that. I just don't consider it a sport.... And I know the deff. of sportsman, which is why I said it was ironic. For hundreds of years they said the earth was flat....you do know the earth isn't flat, right? Just because popular belief is such, doesn't actually mean its true. I see. Since the ancient Babylonians believed the world was flat, our dictionaries today are wrong about hunting.

January 14, 2010, 12:30 PM	#60
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Enuf. This is just chasing in circles, getting nowhere...

January 14, 2010, 12:34 PM	#61
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 883	Ancient babaloynians? LMAO are you serious? Do you have no idea of history? Into the 16th Century for the christian religion and the 17th for the Chinese people still believed the world was flat. Gun powder has been around longer than the knowledge of a spherical Earth. As late as the 1980's there was a "Flat Earth Society" with a few thousand followers. Sure, the ancient greeks, muslims, and egyptains all PROVED the earth was spherical....but that still wasn't popular belief.... interesting, wouldn't you agree? __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...