Can someone get you in trouble by making a false claim?

Doug.38PR · November 14, 2005, 08:35 PM

Suppose someone finds out you carry a gun. He doesn't like guns or you. Can he make a false claim that he was threatened in some way with a gun and have your license revoked? Or do they have to have proof and witnesses and all just like any other supposed offense?

EricN · November 14, 2005, 08:45 PM

In Nevada the act must be witnessed by one other person to be valid however, I dont recommend you tell anybody you carry.

ericn

sendec · November 14, 2005, 09:12 PM

Sure, but they could do that whether you carry or not. Cops quickly develop a sense for bullpoop reports, I cannot speak to your state but most I know of have some statute making false reports a crime.

Sir William · November 14, 2005, 09:51 PM

Depends. In Florida concealed means just that. If a citizen says that you showed a gun on your right hip and a LEO finds a revolver in a IWB holster on your right hip, brandishing charges are made. I don't suggest bravado or bragging about CCW. Low profile.

Weeg · November 15, 2005, 05:53 AM

Friend of mine at work is going through that right now...

Some loser made a claim that he waved a gun at him at a traffic light. He wasn't even carrying at the time...Dude just has a hard-*n for him.

Needless to say, he now has a Lawyer working for him to clear his name...He is awaiting a Court date, but the sad thing is, there is a complaint (not conviction) on his record...

ron73644 · November 15, 2005, 06:21 AM

Here in Elk City, the detectives(?) are so lazy that if anyone accuses anyone of something, they just send the papers over to the DA'S office. It doesn't matter to them if it's false. They are unskilled and self serving. They are too ignorant to know that they are costing the family thousands of dollars.

Mikeyboy · November 15, 2005, 08:40 AM

Yep, you can at the least go thru some hassle, at the worse you can do jail time. As everyone says, low profile. The other thing you got to worry about is most employers have HR policies regarding weapons at work (I don't even tell people at work that I carry a 3" folding knife). Check your employee manual. If you work with this guy and he makes a claim that you brandished a weapon, not only will you get into possible legal trouble, you may get fired.

My advise, if possible avoid the guy, and don't carry when you know you will be around this guy for a few days. If everyone knows you carry, start the rumor that you don't carry anymore because of this. If you got a big CW, get something smaller and less noticable. When everything dies down, then you will be ok to start carrying again and this time do not tell anyone.

gddyup · November 15, 2005, 12:04 PM

There was a not-so-nice-quote-"[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]"-looser in a local town that was calling the police on people who had NRA decals on there car window. Said person would call the police when they noticed an NRA sticker on somone's window and report that they had been threatened with a gun. I guess this happened quite a few times and of course the PD had to go investigate and did pull over and question some of the people who were targets of this *******. The jaggoff who was making the complaints hasn't been caught yet unfortunately.

molonlabe · November 15, 2005, 03:29 PM

So they pulled someone over on an anonymous tip? He didn’t give his name?

woodland · November 15, 2005, 05:56 PM

Quote:

So they pulled someone over on an anonymous tip? He didn’t give his name?

Why not? I knew some people about 15 years ago, maybe more, ( CRAP! now I feel old!) who were raided by sheriffs, and ATF on an "anonymous" tip from someone that there had been automatic gun fire from his place. They raided while he was at work, and she was home with the kids. She had the 1yr old in the bath tub, and they drug her outside and hand cuffed her and held her at gun point for over an hour, and would not let her get the baby out of the tub. Their house was absolutly trashed, even broken furniture. All his guns were confiscated, and money they had in the house was taken. They found no automatic weapons, no parts, or even plans for automatic weapons. The guy didn't have anything and never had!

He was never arrested for anything, and no charges were ever filed. It took him months to get just some of his guns back. Several of them just disappeared. They had no record of them. The same with the money. They were not paid anything for any damage to their house. Fortunatly the baby was ok after being left unsupervised for over an hour in a bathtub.

All on an "anonymous" tip.

gddyup · November 15, 2005, 06:00 PM

Quote:

So they pulled someone over on an anonymous tip? He didn’t give his name?

Yep. Caller gave a description of the vehicle, description of the person(s) in the vehicle, and the roadway they were on. Not 90 seconds later the car in question was pulled over and approached.

Gotta love those gun-hating jaggoffs!

TyBryner · November 15, 2005, 06:02 PM

Quote:

He was never arrested for anything, and no charges were ever filed. It took him months to get just some of his guns back. Several of them just disappeared. They had no record of them. The same with the money. They were not paid anything for any damage to their house. Fortunatly the baby was ok after being left unsupervised for over an hour in a bathtub.

Sounds like good grounds for a lawsuit. An anonymous tip definately does not amount to probable cause to enter a residence without permission.

yorec · November 15, 2005, 06:09 PM

happens all the time in He said/She said domestic cases...

jaysouth · November 15, 2005, 06:12 PM

Police merely state that they received reliable word from a reliable source. No judge will make them elaborate or name names. After all, the informants identity must remain silent to protect their sources. This is how a substantial number of narcotics raids are initiated.

In most states, someone can appear in front of a magistrate and swear out a warrant with no questions asked. If their story sounds plausable, a warrant will be issued and ultimately served. The person named in the warrant gets dragged to jail in handcufffs, get their car towed to impound, then appears before a magistrate and begs not to remain in jail for a month or two until the date of court. Happens every day. Very little recourse unless you have big bucks to keep a lawyer interested for a month or two.

blackmind · November 15, 2005, 07:54 PM

If that happened to a person -- that kind of outright abuse by the system -- could anyone really blame him or her for just getting really ...bent, and going on a personal vengeance path afterward? I'm thinking of a situation like Henry Bowman in Unintended Consequences... If you wake up, due to the government really screwing you over, to find that all the trust you had that bad things would not happen to you if you didn't act bad, was unjustified, it could really send you over the edge. Once you are stomped on -- terrorized by -- the powers that be, I don't think you'll ever see things the same way again, and I could understand why someone would just, from that day forward, go looking for ways to "stick it to the man" in various ways.

-blackmind

steve154 · November 27, 2005, 06:51 PM

"Police merely state that they received reliable word from a reliable source. No judge will make them elaborate or name names. After all, the informants identity must remain silent to protect their sources. This is how a substantial number of narcotics raids are initiated"

Jay,

That is not how it works. When a search warrant affidavit is based soley on witness/confidential informant information the witness/CI will have to testify in front of the judge during the process of getting the warrant and his identity will be known to the judge. The affidavit has to particulary describe the place to be searched and the specific item(s) sought. It not only has to deal in specifics, but must set them out so that a neutral and detached judge can independantly determine if the information demonstrates probable casue to justify the warrant. Merely stating that "I received reliable word from a reliable source" will never get a warrant signed.(or shouldn't) Any judge worth anything would NEVER sign a search warrant based on that and no cop with half a brain would even consider applying for a warrant based on such information. Sure it could happen, but a 1st year law student could easily defend against that and have the search tossed in about 2.5 seconds.

CI's are never completely confidential. They must be registered and proven reliable, especially when basing a search warrant on their information. If a case goes to trial the CI will have to testify and his identity will become known to all. That is why you see so many narcotics cases plead down. No one wants to burn a good CI unless it is for something really big.

goalie · November 27, 2005, 07:16 PM

Quote:

If that happened to a person -- that kind of outright abuse by the system -- could anyone really blame him or her for just getting really ...bent, and going on a personal vengeance path afterward?

I wouldn't blame him/her one bit.

Jack Malloy · November 28, 2005, 11:45 AM

No.
In most states, an officer has to OBSERVE the crime being committed before he can make an arrest.
Thats why you can't just claim you got beat up and expect the police to go arrest your attacker. It doesn't work that way.
Ask any domestic violence victim about that.
At worst, the person would have to swear out a statement and try to get a warrant and appear to testify before a magistrate or judge. As there is no actual evidence it is just his word against yours. Most judges won't give that the time of day. Only a realy shady prosecutor who is out to make Charles Schumer brownie points would even bother persuing it, so far as that goes.

The fact that you HAVE a permit shows that you passed all the societal rules that your opponent probably would not be able to.

Remember, most sleazebags are too ball-less to even make a report to the police because they are afraid of getting tripped up into whatever they are doing.

If somebody claimed that you harrassed them and were packing, the only thing an officer could do is see if you are packing. If the other guy could not say what you were packing any cop with street savvy would smell bull$#!+ all over the other guy;s claims and get suspicous of him.
The only way you would be in trouble would be if you were packing without a permit.

November 14, 2005, 08:35 PM	#1
Doug.38PR Junior member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 3,298	Can someone get you in trouble by making a false claim? Suppose someone finds out you carry a gun. He doesn't like guns or you. Can he make a false claim that he was threatened in some way with a gun and have your license revoked? Or do they have to have proof and witnesses and all just like any other supposed offense?

November 14, 2005, 08:45 PM	#2
EricN Member Join Date: October 1, 2004 Posts: 98	In Nevada.... In Nevada the act must be witnessed by one other person to be valid however, I dont recommend you tell anybody you carry. ericn

November 15, 2005, 12:04 PM	#8
gddyup Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2005 Location: Derry, NH Posts: 219	There was a not-so-nice-quote-"[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]"-looser in a local town that was calling the police on people who had NRA decals on there car window. Said person would call the police when they noticed an NRA sticker on somone's window and report that they had been threatened with a gun. I guess this happened quite a few times and of course the PD had to go investigate and did pull over and question some of the people who were targets of this *****. The jaggoff who was making the complaints hasn't been caught yet unfortunately. __________________ Firefighter/EMT - Currently teamed on Engine 1... I always get to play with my Knob! "Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from poor judgement" - Unknown. "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."** - Robert A. Heinlein

November 15, 2005, 03:29 PM	#9
molonlabe Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: MD Posts: 296	So they pulled someone over on an anonymous tip? He didn’t give his name? __________________ The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved. I Don't want you in here period...Patricia Konie NOLA 2005

November 15, 2005, 06:09 PM	#13
yorec Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,328	happens all the time in He said/She said domestic cases... __________________ What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand?

November 14, 2005, 09:12 PM	#3
sendec Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2005 Posts: 517	Sure, but they could do that whether you carry or not. Cops quickly develop a sense for bullpoop reports, I cannot speak to your state but most I know of have some statute making false reports a crime.

November 14, 2005, 09:51 PM	#4
Sir William Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2004 Posts: 3,261	Depends. In Florida concealed means just that. If a citizen says that you showed a gun on your right hip and a LEO finds a revolver in a IWB holster on your right hip, brandishing charges are made. I don't suggest bravado or bragging about CCW. Low profile.

November 15, 2005, 05:53 AM	#5
Weeg Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2005 Posts: 463	Friend of mine at work is going through that right now... Some loser made a claim that he waved a gun at him at a traffic light. He wasn't even carrying at the time...Dude just has a hard-*n for him. Needless to say, he now has a Lawyer working for him to clear his name...He is awaiting a Court date, but the sad thing is, there is a complaint (not conviction) on his record...

November 15, 2005, 06:21 AM	#6
ron73644 Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2005 Posts: 141	Here in Elk City, the detectives(?) are so lazy that if anyone accuses anyone of something, they just send the papers over to the DA'S office. It doesn't matter to them if it's false. They are unskilled and self serving. They are too ignorant to know that they are costing the family thousands of dollars.

November 15, 2005, 08:40 AM	#7
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	Yep, you can at the least go thru some hassle, at the worse you can do jail time. As everyone says, low profile. The other thing you got to worry about is most employers have HR policies regarding weapons at work (I don't even tell people at work that I carry a 3" folding knife). Check your employee manual. If you work with this guy and he makes a claim that you brandished a weapon, not only will you get into possible legal trouble, you may get fired. My advise, if possible avoid the guy, and don't carry when you know you will be around this guy for a few days. If everyone knows you carry, start the rumor that you don't carry anymore because of this. If you got a big CW, get something smaller and less noticable. When everything dies down, then you will be ok to start carrying again and this time do not tell anyone.

November 15, 2005, 06:12 PM	#14
jaysouth Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2001 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 787	Police merely state that they received reliable word from a reliable source. No judge will make them elaborate or name names. After all, the informants identity must remain silent to protect their sources. This is how a substantial number of narcotics raids are initiated. In most states, someone can appear in front of a magistrate and swear out a warrant with no questions asked. If their story sounds plausable, a warrant will be issued and ultimately served. The person named in the warrant gets dragged to jail in handcufffs, get their car towed to impound, then appears before a magistrate and begs not to remain in jail for a month or two until the date of court. Happens every day. Very little recourse unless you have big bucks to keep a lawyer interested for a month or two.

November 15, 2005, 07:54 PM	#15
blackmind Junior member Join Date: July 21, 2005 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 1,224	If that happened to a person -- that kind of outright abuse by the system -- could anyone really blame him or her for just getting really ...bent, and going on a personal vengeance path afterward? I'm thinking of a situation like Henry Bowman in Unintended Consequences... If you wake up, due to the government really screwing you over, to find that all the trust you had that bad things would not happen to you if you didn't act bad, was unjustified, it could really send you over the edge. Once you are stomped on -- terrorized by -- the powers that be, I don't think you'll ever see things the same way again, and I could understand why someone would just, from that day forward, go looking for ways to "stick it to the man" in various ways. -blackmind

November 27, 2005, 06:51 PM	#16
steve154 Member Join Date: June 12, 2005 Posts: 89	"Police merely state that they received reliable word from a reliable source. No judge will make them elaborate or name names. After all, the informants identity must remain silent to protect their sources. This is how a substantial number of narcotics raids are initiated" Jay, That is not how it works. When a search warrant affidavit is based soley on witness/confidential informant information the witness/CI will have to testify in front of the judge during the process of getting the warrant and his identity will be known to the judge. The affidavit has to particulary describe the place to be searched and the specific item(s) sought. It not only has to deal in specifics, but must set them out so that a neutral and detached judge can independantly determine if the information demonstrates probable casue to justify the warrant. Merely stating that "I received reliable word from a reliable source" will never get a warrant signed.(or shouldn't) Any judge worth anything would NEVER sign a search warrant based on that and no cop with half a brain would even consider applying for a warrant based on such information. Sure it could happen, but a 1st year law student could easily defend against that and have the search tossed in about 2.5 seconds. CI's are never completely confidential. They must be registered and proven reliable, especially when basing a search warrant on their information. If a case goes to trial the CI will have to testify and his identity will become known to all. That is why you see so many narcotics cases plead down. No one wants to burn a good CI unless it is for something really big.

November 28, 2005, 11:45 AM	#18
Jack Malloy Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2005 Posts: 791	No. In most states, an officer has to OBSERVE the crime being committed before he can make an arrest. Thats why you can't just claim you got beat up and expect the police to go arrest your attacker. It doesn't work that way. Ask any domestic violence victim about that. At worst, the person would have to swear out a statement and try to get a warrant and appear to testify before a magistrate or judge. As there is no actual evidence it is just his word against yours. Most judges won't give that the time of day. Only a realy shady prosecutor who is out to make Charles Schumer brownie points would even bother persuing it, so far as that goes. The fact that you HAVE a permit shows that you passed all the societal rules that your opponent probably would not be able to. Remember, most sleazebags are too ball-less to even make a report to the police because they are afraid of getting tripped up into whatever they are doing. If somebody claimed that you harrassed them and were packing, the only thing an officer could do is see if you are packing. If the other guy could not say what you were packing any cop with street savvy would smell bull$#!+ all over the other guy;s claims and get suspicous of him. The only way you would be in trouble would be if you were packing without a permit.