Is a defense shotgun worth buying for a budget minded person?

[FITASC]

I have always been a shotgun shooter.

What do you currently have now?

[theliberalgunowner]

The Firing Line Friends,

Thank you for all of the responses and opinions! I have learned a lot and it is cool having people who have the same ideas and thoughts that I have. I have a Beretta Urika currently (12 gauge). It is longer than any bolt gun I have now, and is around 48 inches I want to say. Simply put, it is way too long for any application besides open field bird hunting or clay pigeon shooting, and I cannot find ANY barrels that are 18 inches. Even carrying it inside the house for cleaning I have to watch to make sure I don't hit anything such as doorways or walls. It is long enough that it makes my Ruger M77 Predator (.308) feel short. The length is one big reason I believe I cannot use this shotgun, and also I cannot remember if its barrel is rated for slugs or buckshot. An AR, or other military style semiautomatic, is usually much smaller, and most Remington 870s or Mossberg 500/590 models are short as well.

[B.L.E.]

Usually, the shortest available barrels are 18.5 or so, to make darn sure the barrel is longer than the 18 inch limit before you have a highly illegal "sawed off shotgun".

[johnwilliamson062]

"spread of buckshot" wont matter. it will be as important to aim a shotgun as it will a rifle or handgun.

Sort of. You still need to hit the target, but if you put the pattern anywhere on the target you are much more likely to "stop the threat" than with a handgun. Once the shot enters tissue it is going to spread much more quickly than in the air. If it hits any sort of bone, anyone's guess where pellets end up. A hit with a #4 buckshot load is, in a very simplified manner ballistically, a few dozen hits with a 22lr in a small entry area. 0000 buckshot similar to more than a cylinder out of a .38 revolver. Look at gel tests and you will see the shot spread quickly into a larger cone towards the exit. It may not take tear an arm off if the pattern hits squarely, but it is going to almost surely open up every blood vessel, shatter bones, and render that arm useless and any movement is going to generate a lot of pain. If that doesn't limit the attacker, due to drugs or something, they are probably going to lose a lot of blood quickly if they don't stop to bandage.
I'd rather have a shotgun if I have to pull the trigger anywhere in my house, but my CCW will probably get the job done if I am ever put in that situation. Eliminating the dedicated HD shotgun eliminates a firearm I need to train with.

Being good with a shotgun for hunting and clay birds isn't the same as being good with one for self defense.

Again, sort of. The psychological is much different, but the technical aspects of it not so much. If you are clearing a room and such there are retention concerns, but if you are hunkering down behind a locked door and waiting for police using a gun you shoot a lot for clays is much better than a tactical 18" one you never handle IMO.

An 18" barrel is a lot better for in and out of vehicle and a little better for clearing house type stuff. That 18" barrel is still way out in front if you round a corner close or make a similar mistake. With either barrel, if an assailant get a hold of the other end and you haven't trained retention skills you are in trouble. If you have trained and they haven't you are probably OK. As soon as they grab that barrel you need to think of it as something of a mix between a staff and a club. For hunkering down a longer barrel isn't bad. You can always cut a longer barrel down. Cutting shotgun barrels can be done pretty easily with a few things from midway so it doesn't look too bad. I considered having a polychoke installed on an old singleshot folding gun a while ago and I think it was going to run $200 for a used one off gunbroker and my local smith to install using a lathe. A shorter barrel so fitted for your Beretta could offer a lot of utility beyond HD.

http://www.corsonsbarrels.com/ - keep an eye here for something if you aren't in a hurry.

Also, you can use a rifled barrel or choke if you want the pattern to expand much more quickly. 15+ inches at 5 yards. positives and negatives to that.

[Virginian]

I can carry my 50" duck shotgun through the house in the dark. Besides, all the same folks preaching short barrels for maneuverability also say to stay in one position. Home defense and tactical are very different things.

[j3ffr0]

If budget is the primary factor and effective home defense is the goal than a pump shotgun seems like an easy choice.

If budget is less of a factor or you're thinking is doomsdayish then an AR comes into play.

About six months ago I bought a defense model 870 in order to have something more capable than a handgun. I don't regret it -- I have something a few guns I'm confident in. I may or may not pick an AR up down the road.

[FITASC]

and a little better for clearing house type stuff.

And who is doing that? You hunker down and call 911.

[amprecon]

It was the shotgun that really won the West and it was attributed to it's utter versatility. It was not only used for defense but primarily to hunt with. As food was a daily need, it was used for this purpose probably 99% of the time and for defense rarely, if ever, but when necessary, very effective within 40 or 50 yards.
Now considering most shotguns of the day were double-barreled side-by-side, they had two shots to get off before reloading, todays shotguns hold 5 rounds, more than doubling the capacity. Tricking out your shotgun to hold more is a nice option, but unless your in full-out combat, I don't see it as a completely necessary requirement.
As I only own one shotgun, an 870, it is rather easy to swap the barrels out from the longer bird hunting barrel to the shorter riot barrel without messing with springs, mag tube extensions and sling clamps as long as I'm ok with just 5 rounds in the gun. But YMMV

[ice monkey]

Self defence has taken on some odd bedfellows here lately lol. If by self defence you mean addressing the zombie apocalypse, then yeah, the rifle might be better suited.

If by self defence you mean your home, then yeah, a shotgun is awesome-sause. Of course, everything is situational.

My house was designed by a person who went to shipbuilding school rather than homebuilding school lol. The halls and some of the stairways are so narrow, that I have reverted to relying on a handgun for work around the house.

Feed your situation with whatever it needs.

[leadcounsel]

Self defense on a budget you say? Yep.

Dollar for dollar, it's hard to beat the hammer that is the 12 gauge for self/home defense. Decent buckshot will run you about .40 cents per shot, comparable to decent HP handgun ammo. And a decent 12 gauge costs generally less than a handgun.

Range? Unlikely you will ever be presented with a self/home defense situation with ranges outside where you can accurately throw a baseball. Yes, buckshot will be effective inside that range.

In short, the shotgun is a top tier affordable home/self defense tool. Everyone should have one and know how to use it.

[johnwilliamson062]

And who is doing that? You hunker down and call 911.

Me in the US? No. I've lived places where calling the police in such a situation might end with the robber being dispatched to your house though. Or possibly someone worse than the robber. Also depends where your loved ones are at. I don't have kids, but i I did that might muddy those waters.

[ripnbst]

And I'm the guy with those muddy waters. My children's bedrooms, who are both under age 5, are right next to our front door, which I really don't like but it is what it is. If I hear breaking glass or what sounds like someone trying to bust a door frame I have no choice but to "run towards the sound of gunfire".

Let me leave this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtxxvHF_pTY


My HD weapon of choice is a 5" 9mm pistol (S&W M&P 9 Pro) with a weapon mounted light.(WML)

I can carry both my kids and still shoot my pistol with enough effectiveness to hit the torso of a man sized target at 15 yards. Any further than that and I am just scaring them with noise or getting lucky. If I were to grab a shotgun for some reason before heading out of my bedroom the only one I own is a semi-auto 12ga. I can operate it one handed if I have to and can hit man sized targets with buckshot at 20 yards, I haven't tried one handed at further distance than 20 yards. I had a pump gun and sold it for the semi-auto for a few reasons. First, I don't know a single person who can operate a pump one handed without an excessive amount of weapon manipulation. Second, Why beat the hell out of myself with 12 ga recoil impulse all going straight into my shoulder when I could divert some of it into cycling the action of the weapon? Third, Rate of fire in a semi is faster than a pump gun. I cannot carry both my kids and run my shotgun effectively. I could carry one kid and operate it somewhat effectively. If I have to reload, forget it, though that applies to both hand gun and pistol. Which is another reason why the full-size pistol gets the nod first, capacity.

Edited to add:With regards to budget, nothing I own is cheap. Nothing I own is really high end either. When it comes to defense of your own life and those of your loved ones what would you pay to ensure they were safe? A couple hundred bucks? My pistol with WML was around $800, shotgun about $1200. I want to have what gives me the best odds to come out on top in the situations I forsee that could happen. Whatever the cost is to get me the optimal tool for that situation is what I will spend. I will not settle if it means giving up some margin that could be the difference between hugging my kids and never feeling the warmth of their skin again.

[mxsailor803]

In a HD situation, I'll grab a shotgun before I grab a rifle. Payload on target at HD distances can not be out done. Now, with that said, my wife and I are both very proficient with shotguns. We're both military and practice house clearing with shotguns and pistols. Now, if I was living back in SC, where I'm from, I would still have a shotgun. Think about it like this, ammo selection is key. I don't use slugs for anything, not a fan of them. For me, its birdshot or buckshot. About 10-12 years ago I was squirrel hunting in SC with my Rem 1100 12ga (overkill I know, wasn't for us to keep the meat). I was slowly moving through a cypress pond and a old doe comes running towards me. I shot her 1 time at 18-19yds dead center in the chest and DRT. And yes deer season was in and I was using 7.5's in 2 3/4" shells. Not more expensive high brass either. So for people saying a birdshot round won't do damage, never tried it. The front of that doe looked like hamburger meat. So with the reduced recoil of birdshot and effective damage its capable of, it will work just fine in a HD scenario.

[Dreaming100Straight]

Check BigJimP's and FITASC's posts. If you already have a pistol or rifle, and are extremely budget minded, you likely don't need a shotgun for typical home defense purposes. I favor a handgun, backed up with a short barrel pump, but if I only had the handgun I probably wouldn't spend the money for the pump. I have another shotgun for clay shooting.

If you do go with a shotgun, consider if a 12 is overkill or if you can better handle a 20. Keep in mind the report from firing inside a dwelling. If you go with a 20, try to get one built on a 12 gauge frame.

I would go with a shotgun over a rifle for HD, but whichever one you have will do.

Perhaps the one advantage the sg has over handguns and rifles is the ability to select less penetrating ammo.

[mxsailor803]

Dreaming does have a valid point about the 20ga. With todays ammo, a 20ga will do just as well as a 12ga with less recoil. Ammo may be more of a challenge depending on your area though.

[johnwilliamson062]

Almost any factory load available in a 20ga has a similar cheaper load available in a 12ga.

The 20 GA can launch slugs at a flatter trajectory to longer ranges.

[drive_sideways]

A 22" barreled turkey gun works perfect, go take a big ol tom but its short enough for tighter quarters.

[leadcounsel]

The 20 GA can launch slugs at a flatter trajectory to longer ranges.

Really?!?! Hmmm... seems counter intuitive. I'd like to see that backed up.

Dreaming does have a valid point about the 20ga. With todays ammo, a 20ga will do just as well as a 12ga with less recoil.

Another point that really needs to be backed up. The 12 ga can be tamed down with low-recoil ammo and still deliver larger/more shot. It's also generally fired from a heavier shotgun frame, which tames recoil inherently.

[CLC]

Earlier in the thread someone said short barrels are pointless for most people and I would have to disagree, I'm not saying a longer barreled gun won't work but the short barrel definitely makes the weapon more handy in close quarters. Used mossberg/remingtons are cheap and easily found at any shop. I would be grabbing my mossberg 590 before I grab the 835 or browning auto 5 and I have lived in some extremely small apartments. I also think it's silly to say a light isn't important and I would have to argue a good light might be as important as the weapon itself. You have to make sure you identify your target before you pull that trigger! My 835 is set up for coyote hunting and I can shoot out to 70 feet so I wouldn't worry about range on a SD shotgun. I love shotguns and would go with a mossberg or remington combo. I prefer mossbergs over remingtons due to the location of the slide release.

Also, if your shotgun I's going to be used primarily for self defense I wouldn't put a sling on it and I prefer to put extra shells in a pocket. I'm not a fan of heat shields so I took mine off although it has prevented me from getting dents/scratchs on the barrel. My 590 has a bead sight and I would like to upgrade to a ghost ring sight.

[johnwilliamson062]

I'd like to see that backed up.

Its been a few years, but when I was buying my last shotgun I looked at factory saboted rounds available for deer in Ohio. several of the 20 ga offerings were flatter than what I could find in 12 ga. Lighter smaller caliber slugs for sure, but moving faster with a flatter trajectory.
Could just reflect the factory loads available. I went with the 12 ga because the breadth of factory loads available and ended up shooting the Hornady SST slugs for deer. Recoil isn't bad for taking down a deer, but zeroing the sights the first time, a dozen or two rounds from 25 to 100 yards off the bench, was unpleasant.