Resizing LC 7.62 to 7mm-08 Annealing first mandatory?

[Marco Califo]

A little update: This lot of LC, circa ~1972, has been very difficult for me to size. Once sized it has worked fine for 308. And I do own auto-loader rifles (as well as a bolt 308), where this brass take some rough handling after processing. Since it is a lot of work, sizing and then trimming, 700+ cases has been sitting on a shelf for years. The first one I tried, direct from tumbler to the 7mm-08 die required more force than I could handle on my indoor press. I think this particular brass is on the extreme side of "out-of-spec". I did find my dial caliber, and may start a new thread about sizing that brass (to 308 spec), with measurements about the initial dimensions, and how the length grows in sizing. Also, the neck was where the 7mm sizing was most evident, curved inward more than I liked. That also convinced me to order an L. E. Wilson neck reamer that will work with the trimmer I already have, but its out of stock at Midway.
So, I halted that process, and ordered 50 Star-line 7mm-08 that have now arrived. So, I will load those and get my rifle sighted in. I also ordered 50 Top Brass fully processed LC 7.62, for the specific purpose of resizing to 7mm-08, but starting from in spec 7.62. I have not measured them yet. By reducing the number of variables I think I will be better able to determine exactly where the problems are. I will not be updating this again soon, as I just received 1,000+ 45 ACP and am busy with that project cleaning, sorting, and tumbling, so far.

[Unclenick]

To reform cases that are resistant, take the expander out of a .308 die and run it through that first. If the cases are extra stiff, do it first in the expanderless regular die and second in an expanderless small base die to get the body small. I recommend two steps because I've had a really fat case get stuck in a small base die before and might have avoided that with the less extreme effort needed to get it through standard die first, and also because a second pass takes a bit more off the size than a single all-at-once pass does. I've had a second pass through the same sizing die shorten the head to shoulder dimension by up to an additional three thousandths on a 30-06 case, so getting an extra half a thousandth or so off the diameter seems like a reasonable possibility.

Annealing the neck will make necking down easier.

Using a bushing die with a tungsten nitride coated bushing will make it easier.

[F. Guffey]

I disagree. While it may not be as extensive as some operations, it is case forming.

The best part of a great speech went something like" "The candle that lights my path is the light of experience". When going from 30/06 to 270 the book says use rule #1.

F. Guffey

And then there are fire formers; chamber a round, pull the trigger and WHLA the reloaders become a fire former, I form and then fire.

[F. Guffey]

^^^An excellent illustration of the fact neck growth occurs during resizing, not shooting.

Because reloaders can not keep up with more than one thing at a time I disagree. I have ejected cases, after firing that had no neck and some only had a hint of a neck.

Was I concerned about splits in the area of the neck? the case shortened and the neck did not get thinner, if it did it get shorter and thinner, who measures?

F. Guffey

[Marco Califo]

So, I received my L.E. Wilson Neck Reamer (works in their trimmer). Nice Yellow box and NO INSTRUCTIONS.
It looks like the cutting blade portion was dipped in some gel material that crumbles a little if I pick at it. It does not come off like a cap, or in one piece at all.
I am assuming that the material is a sealant against rust? Gel form of cosmoline? Am I supposed to:
A. Cut/scrape it off?
B. Heat it until it melts away?
C. Chew on it and whistle & spit?

I am not ready to use it, but can't even measure it through the gel.

[Dufus]

I always that stuff was to protect the cutters til it got to the end user.

You should be able to get it off with a tooth pick or carefully with fingers. I wouldn't use any metal on it JIC.

Mine have 5 cutters that make it tough to measure

[HiBC]

That green gel dip has been used for ages to protect cutting edges from rust or being dinked rolling around in a drawer.I suggest you find some form of paper or plastic tube to replace it for storage.

I suggest the "paper clip" check for brass that may have been fired in an MG.

You have figured out your LC brass will likely have crimped primer pockets to contend with?

Trying it out will tell you if you have to anneal first,but the brass gets worked some first firing,it gets worked again sizing it down. Who knows whether stretch rings or neck splits will show up first. That's what you need to learn.
I can't predict it.

[LineStretcher]

Military brass is annealed as the final step and the govt. requires that the final annealing be visible so it's not polished off. That said, once fired mil ammo should not need annealing and because they also spec that it must be 70% copper and 30% zinc it should be soft enough to resize in one process.

If you feel better annealing it then by all means do, you won't hurt it if you keep the heat at the neck an shoulder and don't go over 750 degrees.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

What I've learned.
Case dimensions nearly kept the same> swagging the neck smaller by two calibers. Normally._ No problem in most sporting cartridge circumstances. To insure no problems? Trim brass prior or after its resizing to minimum tolerances.

Although the decision too or not anneal which helps to resolve cycling/battery lock up issues. That depends on whether the first fire cartridge neck & shoulder hasn't work hardened to a degree of excessive brass spring back. Something I've witnessed taking place on first firing_second firing_ or fifth firing.

I haven't reloaded military brass in many years but when I did as I recall back in the day Full-auto brass prompted its annealing quite often. (having excessive spring back) Keep that in mind if you incur battery lock-up problems. One resolve.> Small base resizer use_Or_ small base resizer & annealing.
Good Luck

[LineStretcher]

That depends on whether the first fire cartridge neck & shoulder hasn't work hardened to a degree of excessive brass spring back.

This is actually correct and incorrect depending on how you perceive it. Work hardened brass does not spring back. When it expands in the chamber it should spring back but when it becomes hardened it doesn't or at least not as much as it should. When you try to resinize it, it springs back to nearly what it was before in the chamber. In other words, it resists change.

This is where inexperienced reloaders get into trouble when they keep cranking their dies down trying to make their brass fit into their case gauges. They either get there or stick a case in their die.

There is nothing wrong or bad about annealing your brass if done properly but some will make it out to seem so. I don't argue for it or against it but just like Sure Shot Mc Gee say's, work hardening is something to be aware of and annealing is the cure.