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Old December 10, 2018, 07:54 AM   #51
Mike Irwin
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All this talk has ignited a desire in me to get my 1917 back out to the range!
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Old December 10, 2018, 11:24 PM   #52
JohnKSa
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Quote:
'9mm Federal was also loaded a good bit hotter than standard 9mm Luger."

No, it wasn't.

Federal factory ballistics were for a 115-gr. HP at a nominal 1280 fps, which was right in the ballpark with other 115-gr. loadings from Federal, Winchester, and others.
I went back looking for my old Federal ammo catalog from the '90s that had 9mm Federal in it but apparently I cleaned house awhile back and it is gone.

Anyway, the only reason I actually paid any notice to the round at the time was because when comparing the 9mm Federal to the 9mm Luger in that particular catalog there was a significant velocity advantage to the 9mm Federal. Maybe there was a test barrel length difference I failed to note...
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Old December 11, 2018, 08:33 AM   #53
Mike Irwin
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Or perhaps it was the particular loading that it was being compared against.

When the Pitbull/9mm R Federal was announced, any number of defensive loads were available in the same ballistic range that were being introduced partially in response to the perceived failure of the 9mm Winchester Silvertip in the Miami shootout.

In fact, at the time the 9mm R was in development the same Silvertip round, with a 115-gr bullet, had a listed velocity of 1225 fps, or right in the same ballpark as the new 9mm R.

The Federal Hydrashok 9mm 115 gr. load was more sedate, at 1150 fps.
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Old December 11, 2018, 11:28 PM   #54
JohnKSa
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Quote:
The Federal Hydrashok 9mm 115 gr. load was more sedate, at 1150 fps.
That's probably what I was comparing against. I wonder why Federal tends to load their 115gr 9mm bullets to such low velocity...
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Old December 12, 2018, 08:19 AM   #55
Mike Irwin
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Beats me. May have had its genesis in the early days of American 9mm production post WW I.

For some reason American companies all adopted pretty sedate loadings even though German 9mm ammo suitable for use in the Luger was quite a bit more powerful.

Underloaded American ammo was the genesis of the entire Light Rifle fiasco that nearly finished off Smith & Wesson in 1940.

It wasn't until, IIRC, the 1970s or 1980s that you could actually get US loadings that were a LOT closer to the ballistics churned out by European loads.

For whatever reason, American companies also soft loaded rounds like the 7mm and 8mm Mauser starting around the same time.
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Old December 18, 2018, 09:25 AM   #56
walnut1704
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Quote:
I remember Skeeter Skelton used to write about loading 38 brass to 357 or at least near 357 velocity for use in 357 guns ONLY. Seems he had a ton of 38 brass and 357 brass was hard to get in those long ago days. I don't think he even gave any load data, just said he did it. Of course Skeeter and his cronies did a lot of stuff that would make our hair stand up today.
Skeeter's work with the .357 in .38 cases is detailed here:

http://www.darkcanyon.net/MyFriend_The357.htm

Note he used the Lyman 358156, a SWC design that had two crimp grooves. He'd load the .357-in-.38-cases with it crimped in the lower groove. This gave him more case volume to work with. These loads were way more powerful than any .38, but not his hottest loads which were put up in .357 cases.

It can be done, and I've done it for the sake of experiment. But given an ample supply of .357 brass Skeeter wouldn't have. He did it more out of necessity, as post-war .357 brass was scarce. What he had he saved for full-power loads.
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