The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 8, 2018, 01:23 AM   #76
hornetguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2011
Location: on the north side of DFW
Posts: 949
I'll play along... I've owned Taurus firearms for over 30 years... Had a 4" stainless .357 that was really smooth. It appeared that the barrel was over-tightened a tad, as the front sight was tilted ever so slightly to the left.
Had a model 85 that became my wife's gun... kept it for 20 plus years, until I shot someone else's reloads in it and blew it apart with an apparent double load.
I've had a 24/7 Pro in .45 acp for around 20+ years that has been virtually flawless. It doesn't like the semi-wadcutter style bullets, though.
I recently found a matching 24/7 in 9mm in a lgs that came home with me for $200... still haven't gotten to shoot it yet.
I have a PT111 G2 that I've put about 1200 rounds or so through, with ZERO issues. None. It's a great pistol.
I have a TCP that would lock the slide back in the middle of a magazine, until I filed down the hold-open tab so that it wouldn't get caught on a bullet nose in the magazine and lock the slide. Since that adjustment, it's been flawless through 500+ rounds.

My experience with Taurus has been very positive. My PT111 is my "main" CCW, when weather allows clothing that will conceal it.. an un-tucked shirt works pretty well, and a jacket is perfect.

My smaller CCW is a Sig P938... my first "high-end" pistol. So far, it's been reliable.... but on the Sig forum, there are quite a few complaints about issues with the 938 and others. I have seen more complaints about Sigs from Sig owners than I have about the Taurus PT 111 G2. I really like my Sig at this point, having only owned it for about 5 months... but looking at it another way, I could have bought THREE more PT111's for the price of the Sig.

Which one is better? The high-end Sig that puts out 7 rounds flawlessly, or the Taurus with the proven track record of putting out up to 12 rounds flawlessly, for 1/3 of the price?
__________________
I always felt that if I got to the point where I thought it was time to bury my firearms, it was actually time to pick them up..
hornetguy is offline  
Old December 8, 2018, 08:11 AM   #77
Auto5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2013
Location: Chicago suburbs
Posts: 577
I had a 90's vintage 85CH that worked just fine. My brother has bought a handful of 738s because his kids keep taking them. The PT111 G2C gets good reviews and with sub $200 prices, I may have to pick one up.

Taurus quality has varied through different management over the years, but it seems to be improving again.
__________________
At the young age of five, a bear told me that I was the only person who could prevent forest fires. Why I was chosen, I'll never know.
Auto5 is offline  
Old December 8, 2018, 08:15 AM   #78
dgludwig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2005
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 6,931
Quote:
Which one is better? The high-end Sig that puts out 7 rounds flawlessly, or the Taurus with the proven track record of putting out up to 12 rounds flawlessly, for 1/3 of the price?
Unless your question is intended to be rhetorical, my answer is the SIG.
__________________
ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED
...Aristotle
NRA Benefactor Life Member
dgludwig is offline  
Old December 8, 2018, 12:00 PM   #79
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 7,678
Quote:
Quote:
Which one is better? The high-end Sig that puts out 7 rounds flawlessly, or the Taurus with the proven track record of putting out up to 12 rounds flawlessly, for 1/3 of the price?
Unless your question is intended to be rhetorical, my answer is the SIG.
Or like the cliche, but truthful "The 380 in your pocket is better than the 45 you leave at home."

the Taurus with a proven track record you can afford is better than the high end Sig that is still in the case at the gun store where you have been drooling over.
Everyone has the right to self defense. But not everybody can afford a $1000+ gun for it.
To some it may be a Hi-Point. To others a Taurus, Glock, Springfield , S&W etc up the pricing scale. But to those with the deepest pockets, and thickest wallets it's high end guns.
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old December 8, 2018, 12:52 PM   #80
hornetguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2011
Location: on the north side of DFW
Posts: 949
Quote:
Unless your question is intended to be rhetorical, my answer is the SIG.
It was somewhat rhetorical... but also a serious question. Everyone has a different definition of "better".. to some, it is based on higher price, and "established" quality, to others, it is a combination of proven quality combined with "best price".

My experience with Taurus has proven to me that #1, NEVER take internet comments at face value, and #2, always be open minded in your quest for a great carry gun.

If you can afford an H&K, or Sig, and like their design and function, it would be difficult to go wrong. But you should also remain open minded about the proven pistols at a lower price point. The Sig P365 is being touted as the new wonder nine... small, sub-compact, and holds 12 ROUNDS! The PT111 G2 has been doing that almost flawlessly for, what, 5 years now? And, it gives you the option of a manual safety, and double strike ability.
__________________
I always felt that if I got to the point where I thought it was time to bury my firearms, it was actually time to pick them up..
hornetguy is offline  
Old December 8, 2018, 01:22 PM   #81
seeker_two
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 31, 2002
Location: Deep in the Heart of the Lone Star State (TX)
Posts: 2,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheapshooter View Post
Or like the cliche, but truthful "The 380 in your pocket is better than the 45 you leave at home."

the Taurus with a proven track record you can afford is better than the high end Sig that is still in the case at the gun store where you have been drooling over.
Everyone has the right to self defense. But not everybody can afford a $1000+ gun for it.
To some it may be a Hi-Point. To others a Taurus, Glock, Springfield , S&W etc up the pricing scale. But to those with the deepest pockets, and thickest wallets it's high end guns.
Price isn't the point.....reliability is. Is spending $200 on a pistol that has a 50% chance of being a dud a better deal than spending $400 on a pistol with a 10% chance of being a dud?

I was a big Taurus fanboy in the '90's. I had a PT-908 that I loved, and a 941 that I still have & enjoy. The one time I used their customer service (weak extractor spring on the 908), they repaired it and refinished the pistol for free....within two weeks. I've recently inherited a PT-145 made then that works great.

Since the 2000's, Taurus QC really tanked. At best, you have a 1/3 chance of getting a dud. And their customer service tanked with it.....likely due to the volume of returns. And they kept this policy up for over a decade.

I don't know about Taurus today, but I haven't seen anything that tells me that things have improved. If anything, the new 1-yr warranty worries me more. I could not, in good conscience, recommend Taurus to anyone today. And I hate that....because I still miss that PT-908.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
seeker_two is offline  
Old December 8, 2018, 01:43 PM   #82
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 7,678
Quote:
Price isn't the point.....reliability is. Is spending $200 on a pistol that has a 50% chance of being a dud a better deal than spending $400 on a pistol with a 10% chance of being a dud?
But you obviously missed the quote from post #76 that my comments were referring to

Quote:
I have a PT111 G2 that I've put about 1200 rounds or so through, with ZERO issues. None. It's a great pistol.
Reliability was not an issue with this Taurus.
You also must have missed the quote
Quote:
Which one is better? The high-end Sig that puts out 7 rounds flawlessly, or the Taurus with the proven track record of putting out up to 12 rounds flawlessly, for 1/3 of the price?
If not,please direct me to where I can get "high end" Sigs for $400! I would be very interested in a $400 229 Legand.
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old December 8, 2018, 03:52 PM   #83
hornetguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2011
Location: on the north side of DFW
Posts: 949
I have heard the stories about Taurus customer service... I have also read on the Sig website of owners having to send their Sig back 4 times to get an issue resolved.

There is no doubt in my mind that Sig produces higher quality handguns than Taurus. This does not mean that Taurus is junk. Cadillac produces higher quality autos than Chevrolet. This does not make a Chevrolet junk. They are fully functional, and cost much less than the Caddy...

I don't have a lot of experience with all the Taurus revolvers, rifles, etc... I have had very positive experience with the PT111 Gen 2, and with the TCP... also the 24/7 pistols. From what I've read, and heard from others, I would say that with those models, a buyer has a 90% chance of getting a very good, trouble free pistol.

With Sig, a buyer probably has a 95-96% chance of getting a trouble free pistol. And, to get that added assurance of quality, you will pay about three times the price.

I'm not knocking Sig, or Ruger (I have an SR9 and love it) or any of the other manufacturers. I am simply pointing out that Taurus is NOT junk. In my mind, the PT111 might be the best value in a 9mm CCW available today. For right at $200 on sale, you get a pistol that is ergonomic, accurate, and flawlessly reliable.
__________________
I always felt that if I got to the point where I thought it was time to bury my firearms, it was actually time to pick them up..
hornetguy is offline  
Old December 9, 2018, 02:03 PM   #84
Spooky 1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2018
Location: Eastern North Carolina
Posts: 6
Yup, I have one Taurus, a PT111 G2 9mm. I bought it just because the gun shop I dang near live in had it on sale for $159.99 and I said what the hell!

She has been a very good little pistol. I have put 2,350 rounds through her and had only one FTF on the first mag. The reason for so many rounds outta this particular pistol is my buddy told me I was a fool for getting it when I had other pistols that I train with monthly. So I run about a 100 to 175 rounds through her almost every trip to the range. Plus I love to shoot anything that goes bang and also to prove a point that some value handgun are decent for a person to defend themselves with as long as the weapon is tested.

Now I own a bunch of handguns, only one Taurus but this one has earned it's right to ride shotgun in my pickup daily as a back up to my carry piece.

This is all the info I have on this discussion, one good one does not make a perfect series of pistol but I am fond of mine.
Spooky 1 is offline  
Old December 10, 2018, 06:15 PM   #85
jr24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 29, 2011
Posts: 726
Quote:
If not,please direct me to where I can get "high end" Sigs for $400! I would be very interested in a $400 229 Legand.
Well... you can still get trade in .40 229 and 226s for under $500. Not high end, per say, but my ex LEO 229 with SRT stacks up quite well with Legions, side by side. In my opinion.

Also, I dont consider a 938 a high end gun.
jr24 is offline  
Old December 10, 2018, 06:30 PM   #86
gb_in_ga
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2005
Location: Pensacola, Fl
Posts: 3,058
I've only ever owned 1 Taurus, a PT-92 I bought NIB a few years back. It has run like a champ from Day 1. No complaints. I have no feedback on their customer service because I've never had to make use of it.
__________________
COME AND TAKE IT
http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/batgon.htm
Formerly lived in Ga, but now I'm back in Tx! Aaaand, now I'm off to Fla...
gb_in_ga is offline  
Old December 10, 2018, 06:37 PM   #87
hornetguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2011
Location: on the north side of DFW
Posts: 949
Quote:
Also, I dont consider a 938 a high end gun.
jr24 is online now Report Post
Have you ever bought one?

Mine, the SAS version, cost right at $650, which, to me, places it in the "high end" category. I know that there are many more that are WAY more expensive than that, though...

I was using that expression to differentiate between a "normal" $300 to $450 pistol, that most people buy.

Either way, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just offering my opinions....
__________________
I always felt that if I got to the point where I thought it was time to bury my firearms, it was actually time to pick them up..
hornetguy is offline  
Old December 10, 2018, 06:48 PM   #88
jr24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 29, 2011
Posts: 726
Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetguy View Post
Have you ever bought one?

Mine, the SAS version, cost right at $650, which, to me, places it in the "high end" category. I know that there are many more that are WAY more expensive than that, though...

I was using that expression to differentiate between a "normal" $300 to $450 pistol, that most people buy.

Either way, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just offering my opinions....
I have not, but I've been looking at them for a SAO (to match my normal carry 226 SAO carry) option during the hottest summer days when I want a real light gun.

I guess its perspective, i consider "higher end" over 1k and high end starting at over 2.

$500-700 in my estimation is solidly mid grade, encompassing many of the standard duty grade guns be it SIG, HK, Glock, Springfield, S&W, FN, CZ, etc.
jr24 is offline  
Old December 10, 2018, 07:06 PM   #89
Drm50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 10, 2014
Posts: 709
Price is the object, you get what you pay for. Every now and again you can get a High End
Lemon. Lemons occur more often in low end stuff, the nature of the beast. Go back to when the Taraus, Rossi and the like came on the market. Look at price compared to the price of
the top shelf gun they were made to copy. All prices are up since but you will find the low end guns have creeped up percentage wise. Prices have approached the price of used guns
of higher quality. If you get a good one consider yourself lucky.
Drm50 is offline  
Old December 10, 2018, 08:42 PM   #90
Reloadron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2016
Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs
Posts: 1,221
I think maybe we should define this High End / Low End part of the discussion as neither has a defined reference. Today, with today's gun pricing what exactly is Low End? What exactly is High End? It's like saying my Low End, your Low End and the next person's Low End are all the same when obviously they aren't. The overdue house payment is $1,000 which is not a hell of a lot of money unless of course you don't have $1,000 in which case it's a hell of a lot of money.

A Dan Wesson Valor in stainless is just about a $1,700.00 gun MSRP so is that a High End gun, is $1,700 a lot of money to pay for a single 1911 45 ACP? Would it be a quality gun?

Quote:
I guess its perspective, i consider "higher end" over 1k and high end starting at over 2.
I am about the same but just a little higher. I just happen to like the older Colt Series 70 guns and especially the Gold Cup guns. When I see one like new in box I see them at about $1,500, seldom lower and I see that price point as a moderately priced gun. That would be my perspective and the thing with perspective is everyone has a different perspective.

Older now, with kids grown and having kids of their own my wife and I have much different priorities in how we can spend money. I like that!

Ron
Reloadron is offline  
Old December 13, 2018, 11:44 AM   #91
Jdin8455
Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2018
Posts: 42
I have two experiences.

I bought one of their PT22 mouse guns in 2010. It was junk, and still didn't function properly after a return trip to the warranty department. I sold it to a LGS.

Last year, I bought a 905 (9mm revolver), and so far (knock on the wood grips I put on it) it has ran flawlessly, though that is probably only around 200 rounds. One thing that bothered me though, the moon clips they sold with it were garbage, and would not hold onto rounds at all. My wife bought me a pack of aftermarket ones that are great, however I don't use them at the range, and my G19 is my house gun, so it doesn't really matter.
Jdin8455 is online now  
Old December 17, 2018, 02:21 PM   #92
larryf1952
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 17, 2004
Location: KCMO
Posts: 549
I'm a late rider on this wagon, but I'll throw in my 2 cents. I've owned 3 Taurus guns. All of them were early '90's manufacture.

The Model 85 snub had as lustrous and gorgeous a blue on it as any S&W that I've ever seen. Beautiful wood grips. It worked well and gave me no trouble. I finally sold it to a friend after many years.

The same thing can be said about the PT92 that I bought in 1991. Superb fit and finish. Great looking wooden grip panels. I had it out the other day, and it still shines like new. Fantastic and accurate shooter, too. One of my prized 9mm's.

Ditto the PT100 .40 cal in satin nickel. It's just a gorgeous gun. Tack driver. 100% reliable from day one.

Contrast those guns to some of the stuff that Taurus is putting out today. The Model 85 is an ugly stepsister of my old 85. I would not want one. I know that every gun that Taurus builds today can't be a lemon. But, given their apparent poor customer service and the prevalence of troubles, I'd not likely take a chance with them.

I'll hang onto my old ones.
larryf1952 is offline  
Old December 19, 2018, 07:22 AM   #93
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 40,128
I've carried a Taurus TP-22 semi-auto for the past 20 years. It's not my only carry gun, but it has been one of my most used.

I guess I'm dead and don't know it.

C'est la vie, I guess.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old December 19, 2018, 07:58 AM   #94
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 5,411
Quote:
Contrast those guns to some of the stuff that Taurus is putting out today. The Model 85 is an ugly stepsister of my old 85. I would not want one. I know that every gun that Taurus builds today can't be a lemon. But, given their apparent poor customer service and the prevalence of troubles, I'd not likely take a chance with them.
Could you be more specific? I have been under the impression that the "Taurus dilemma" has been mostly a problem with their autoloaders, not their revolvers. Nevertheless, what exactly makes the new Taurus revolvers so bad?
dahermit is offline  
Old December 19, 2018, 02:02 PM   #95
lee n. field
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2002
Location: The same state as Mordor.
Posts: 5,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahermit View Post
Could you be more specific? I have been under the impression that the "Taurus dilemma" has been mostly a problem with their autoloaders, not their revolvers. Nevertheless, what exactly makes the new Taurus revolvers so bad?
Oh, no. One hears all sorts of things about problems with the revolvers. "Cylinder fell off" and "after a few shots cylinder wouldn't turn" are two I see frequently around the Internetz. I would think a little basic inspection on the part of the buyer or prospective buyer would filter out those with "birth defects".

(FWIW, I don't pay attention to the buzz about Taurus autoloaders, because I'm not really interested in them.)
__________________
"As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "
lee n. field is online now  
Old December 19, 2018, 02:49 PM   #96
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 9,790
You also have to remember that MOST people nowadays have absolutely no understanding of anything mechanical. Therefore, their expectations are irrational.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old December 19, 2018, 03:00 PM   #97
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,185
I find it rather funny in that I spend time daily over at TaurusArmed.net and I do not see all these stories or reports of people having cylinders falling off or cylinders not turning. Where exactly are all the "Stories"?

I would never buy a Glock because I'm just not interested or a 1911 because I just do not find them comfortable in my hand.
kmw1954 is offline  
Old December 20, 2018, 09:37 PM   #98
lee n. field
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2002
Location: The same state as Mordor.
Posts: 5,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmw1954 View Post
I find it rather funny in that I spend time daily over at TaurusArmed.net and I do not see all these stories or reports of people having cylinders falling off or cylinders not turning. Where exactly are all the "Stories"?
Just telling you what I see. These stories show up in most "Taurus Bad!" threads.

BTW, didn't take long to find one:

Quote:
Took my new 605 out to the range today but the excitement wore off rather quickly due to a couple of problems right out of the box.

After my first 6 shots of 125 grain Sig Sauer .357 Elite Performance ammo the cylinder locked up. Couldn't even pull the hammer down. I was able to release the cylinder and remove the cartridges, and eventually while empty I was finally able to get the hammer and cylinder to move again. This happened not just with the Sig Sauer .357 ammo but also Winchester 130 grain 38 spl +P Defender, and American Eagle 130 grain 38 spl standard pressure cartridges. It didn't happen every time but enough to concern me.
from a ten day old post on Taurusarmed, in their Taurus Product Problems subforum. https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/t...lying-out.html

Quote:
I would never buy a Glock because I'm just not interested or a 1911 because I just do not find them comfortable in my hand.
---edit to add---
And no, I'm not a "hater". At this instant, there's a Taurus 605, just like the one the guy quoted has, in my pocket. I've had it ten years, without problems.

"Cylinder fell off" stories aren't hard to find, either. https://www.google.com/search?q=taur...nt=firefox-b-1.

Which is interesting to me. The only way it's going to fall off is if the cylinder and crane come off, which means the front sideplate screw (which is retaining it) went missing. The user didn't notice this? Didn't tighten down a screw that's obviously backing out?
__________________
"As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "

Last edited by lee n. field; December 21, 2018 at 09:41 AM.
lee n. field is online now  
Old December 20, 2018, 10:51 PM   #99
Drm50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 10, 2014
Posts: 709
HI End - Low End is based on cost but not to include guns that are high priced because of collector value. A little common sense prevails. If money is prime driver what ever you can
afford is better than nothing if gun is for SD. On the other hand if you are schooled enough to engage in this discussion you should realize that Taurus is not that cheap. They jack the
price to be enough less that people will buy them instead of real McCoy they are copying.
This discussion reminds me of the old joke: no goods have a old guy up against the wall and
tell him they are going to kill him if he doesn't hand over all his money. Old guy pulls out his
wallet and peels off a couple hundred and tells bad guys that's all he is going to pay. When a guy is bragging he's got several Taurus he's not hurting for bucks. Personally I don't hate
Taurus, I pay no attention to them what so ever. I have quite a few guns and I have a buddy that has 3 times as many as I do. When he goes in a shop he will go right to the new
guns. He will not buy a used gun, says its buying some one else's problems. He is going to
buy a gun. A Herritage, Rossi, Taurus, ect but it's new and that makes him happy.
Drm50 is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 02:34 AM   #100
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,185
Or how about on a Taurus site the sub-forum Taurus Product Problems. This sub-forum has 133 pages with 2646 threads since it's inception. Then compare that to the Gun Shop other sub-forums;

Spectrum, has 5 pages and 83 threads for a one of a kind new pistol
Curve, 5 pages and 96 threads for a not so popular gun
1911's, 162 pages, 3235 threads
700's models, 206 pages, 4117 threads
Millennium Pistols, 348 pages, 6948 threads
PT92, 248 pages, 4948 threads
Plus 5 other sub-forums.

Now I have just visited;
Springfield XD Forum
Smith & Wesson forum
Ruger forum
Glock Forum
Berretta Forum CZ Forum



Know what I found? Not a single one of them has a sub-forum for "Product Problems"! So I would imagine that if someone went to that Taurus Products Problem sub-forum I would guess they would find stories of problems with the product. Yet you can also go into all those other sub-forums and read of all the success that people are having at the same time.

Now it also seems to me that Ruger, S&W, Sig and Remington have all had recalls as of late yet I do not see people bashing those gun makes the same ways. Why is that?

Lastly, why the Quote regarding my opinion on the Glock and the 1911's?
kmw1954 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12058 seconds with 8 queries