What does an FFL make possible?

[Prof Young]

Forum Followers:

Thanks. I think I have all my questions answered and will not be applying for an FFL.

To clarify some content from my OP. Yes, I can ship to a local FFL but usually the cost of doing that negates whatever sale price I find on an "out of state" gun.

When I lived in Indiana for part of the year I could buy long guns at Mid West Gun exchange, but still had to follow all the IL rules as my permanent address was still in IL. I could buy the gun, do the IL paper work and pick it up a day later. Handguns, however had to be shipped to an IL FFL. However the local Dunhams Sporting Goods store was not set up to sell to anyone from IL. The could only sell to residents of Michigan or Indiana. So I could never avail myself of the good buys at Dunhams.

I guess it's true in any state that they could ship to my local FFL. Does that mean my local FFL is technically buying the gun and I am then buying it from the local FFL? Wonder how that all works with Illinois paper work and waiting period.

Anyway, thanks for all the great info.

Live well, be safe
Prof Young

[2ndsojourn]

"Does that mean my local FFL is technically buying the gun and I am then buying it from the local FFL?"

That's correct.

[dogtown tom]

johnwilliamson062 ..... Maybe it was his first inspection and he had not realized he was giving ATFE unannounced access to his house. I think with a 01 the entire location is fair game.

ATF is limited by Federal law to one compliance inspection per year of any FFL, not just 01's. They do not have the right to search your sock drawer, attic or basment as the inspection is limited to the licensees bound book, 4473's, multiple sale forms and inventory.

To conduct a search beyond the scope of the compliance inspection they would be required to have a search warrant just like any other LE agency.

Dogtown, have you been through any audits?

Yes. The IOI never left my dining room table in the entire two hours he was here. Haven't seen him since 2011.

On the other hand maybe it isn't such a hassle. Maybe I just keep going back to the fact that I could spend the $5000 I would need for a safe on mowing equipment, hire a few college kids, and make considerably more money running a lawn business 20 hours a week in the summer than I would running a transfer FFL year round.

Not only is a safe not required, no regulation requires you to even lock your door.

[dogtown tom]

2ndsojourn "Does that mean my local FFL is technically buying the gun and I am then buying it from the local FFL?"

That's correct.

No, its not correct.
He buys the gun from the dealer who is selling it. That dealer ships it to a dealer in the OP's state who transfers possession to the OP. All the local dealer will do is collect a transfer fee.

[carguychris]

^^^ +1 Dogtown, the receiving FFL acts as an intermediary, he/she has possession but not ownership.

It's a similar situation to dropping your gun off at the gunsmith, or hocking it at the local pawnshop; the 'smith or pawnbroker certainly does not own it while it's in his/her possession, unless you fail to pick it up in a timely manner, at which point he/she may assume ownership.

[johnwilliamson062]

Not only is a safe not required, no regulation requires you to even lock your door

If you have an FFL at your home and you haven't invested in a decent safe, or are supporting another do so, I don't think I can take anything you say seriously.

"best business practices"

[leadcounsel]

This is not a hard concept.

Buyer pays out-of-state FFL (Buds guns, Bills hunting supply, Gart sports, Online gun world, Guns America, Gun Broker, etc.) with acceptable currency (beer, currency, silver, 100 car-washes, or a baseball card collection). The easiest way of thinking of this is an on-line purchase from an out-of-state FFL like Buds guns. You give them payment and they ship it to your local FFL.

Out-of-State FFL then ships gun to In-home-state-FFL. Buyer arrives, completes ATF forms, pays any transfer fees, and owns the gun (possession subject to arbitrary state laws).

Buyer, FFL #1 and FFL #2 all satisfied customers. ATF satisfied. All states/laws satisfied.

Costs are going to be gun + shipping (~$20) + transfer fee (~$20-50) + (sales tax, use tax, etc.).

On a $500 gun, you're looking at what amounts to about 10-15% "tax" or costs extra or about $50-75.

Far less costs, hassle and invasion than setting up an FFL.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ffl-pros-cons/

Here's a summary of a pro/con list of getting an FFL. Note:

Our research shows that over 64% of all FFL locations are from home or residential addresses.

Here's the ATF site. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/apply-license If you want to be an FFL, have at it! Competition helps gun buyers. Not clear how much it is, I've read that it's as low as $30 annually, and/or a one-time $150 fee. Plus business expenses, hassles, document storage, etc.

[dogtown tom]

johnwilliamson062

If you have an FFL at your home and you haven't invested in a decent safe, or are supporting another do so, I don't think I can take anything you say seriously.

"best business practices"

Don't misunderstand me (again).
There is a difference in what is required by ATF regulation and what is common sense. John, way to often someone like you will start posting supposed ATF requirements that are not based on fact......just hearsay.

Common sense tells ME that I need a safe, an alarm system and insurance. I have loud dogs and good neighbors who work from home and don't hesitate to call when they see a strange car in front of my house. ATF doesn't require me to get that stuff, I choose to do so.

I don't need a $5000 safe......most of my transfer customers pick up their gun the day it arrives. A $1000 safe does perfectly fine.