Upset Taurus haters

[dahermit]

Taurus is not that cheap. They jack the
price to be enough less that people will buy them instead of real McCoy they are copying.

For what it is worth, I have a stainless steel Taurus .38 Spl. snubbie... it is not a copy of a S&W (except externally and the cylinder release)...the lockwork bears little/no similarity to a S&W J-frame. I would not call the M85 a "copy".

[JohnKSa]

Know what I found? Not a single one of them has a sub-forum for "Product Problems"! So I would imagine that if someone went to that Taurus Products Problem sub-forum I would guess they would find stories of problems with the product. Yet you can also go into all those other sub-forums and read of all the success that people are having at the same time.

TFL has no "product problems" subforums either and yet people seem to feel free to post negatively about guns they have a problem with. The lack of a specific subforum for product problems doesn't imply that the users of that forum are somehow constrained to post only success stories.

Besides, one could just as easily spin the fact that a particular brand-specific forum feels the need to make a subforum just for problems, while many other brand-specific forums for different brands do not, as being a negative for that brand.

I guess what I'm saying is that if we're going to talk about Taurus, let's talk about Taurus. Trying to do surveys of various forums and then analyzing their structure to try to draw conclusions about Taurus quality seems like a stretch.

[kmw1954]

I don't see a problem with that. Just stating facts however they are construed. There isn't a product I know that at one time or another there wasn't a bad review or bad press about it, it's not just with firearms.

Here the inference was that stories of defective Taurus firearms abound everywhere were I was trying to point out exactly where are all these stories. I took it to read that these stories are almost a daily occurrence and that they can be found everywhere..

The point I was trying to make that even on a product specific forum with a "Problem" subforum the stories of satisfied happy owners outweighs the problems.

At the same time I do not have a problem with someone making a negative review of a product as long as they elaborate on the reason for their negative experience. Way too many times I read reviews that just state "this product is junk, don't buy it"., and they leave it at that, while others just offer, "Well I read or I heard." yet they have zero experience with the product. Just like the press wars it makes no never mind to me which products someone else is using or not using.

[JohnKSa]

The point I was trying to make that even on a product specific forum with a "Problem" subforum the stories of satisfied happy owners outweighs the problems.

This is really the only possible outcome for a company that has been in business for any significant amount of time and continues to make a profit.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that there are more satisfied Taurus customers than there are Taurus customers with problems. If it were the other way around, Taurus would be out of business--as would any company in that situation. In fact, it's likely that it wouldn't take anywhere near a majority of customers being unsatisfied to kill a company. Just a large percentage of unhappy customers, even if it's still the minority of customers would be pretty hard to survive.

That's without getting into the fact that brand specific gun forums are generally oriented far more towards satisfied customers getting together to happily discuss their treasured possessions than towards unhappy owners/prior owners gathering to bash a brand.

[zxcvbob]

What is the point of this thread and its provocative title? The people who don't like Taurus don't seem to be the ones who are upset, in spite of being called "haters"

[kmw1954]

For all that have participated and those just reading and following along. There is not a brand out there that I have shot that I have decided I hate. There have been a few that I felt were not a good fit for me but that doesn't make then bad guns. I have yet to have one of anything blow up or fall apart.

Now I do own a PT92C and it is one of my favorite guns to shoot and I honestly cannot think of anything I would trade it for. Now my older brother has owned 4 different Taurus and still owns a PT809C and a Millennium G2. Both are reliable and he does carry the G2. Personally I do not care for the G2 but the 809 feels much better. He also has a Ruger SR and a Sig and I don't care for either of those either. Lastly, being a member also at Taurus Armed we have had member get together's and I've shot a good number of different Taurus along with other brands.

As for problems, I do have a new S&W Shield 380EZ that is under recall and I can't wait to get it back. I like it so much I have thought of buying another so that the wife has one and so do I.

[Ibmikey]

I take umbrage with JohnkSA’s statement regarding responders “ bashing” Taurus, I was careful to report on two products, one negatively and one positively. There was no bashing included just the realization on my part that there are better products on the market and it is certainly my choice to avoid a company where I have experienced grand failure of the product. This is no “bash” only fact.

[JohnKSa]

I take umbrage with JohnkSA’s statement regarding responders “ bashing” Taurus, I was careful to report on two products, one negatively and one positively. There was no bashing included just the realization on my part that there are better products on the market and it is certainly my choice to avoid a company where I have experienced grand failure of the product.

In my opinion, it takes a pretty strong desire to be offended to interpret a general observation about what people on brand-specific forums do NOT do on those other forums as somehow being meant to apply to any posts made on TFL, let alone to specific posts made by a particular user on TFL.

[kmw1954]

Just an opinion here. I'm old enough and belong to many different types of outdoors forums where product discussions arise. Be it hunting, fishing, canoeing, camping, golfing, auto racing, motorcycle racing or whatever I believe that anyone that has been involved in a forum can differentiate between product "bashing" and giving a legitimate negative review. Negative reviews have a valid place and purpose, Bashing is just spouting off and brings nothing to the table.

[dahermit]

Negative reviews have a valid place and purpose...

Agree. Especially if they give specifics about what was wrong. Saying such things as, "I am not impressed with Tauruses lockwork...", or "Tauruses are junk...", provide no useful information.

I believe that anyone that has been involved in a forum can differentiate between product "bashing" and giving a legitimate negative review.

I disagree with you on that one...there are many, I can assure you, who cannot differentiate between the the two.

[JohnKSa]

Here's an entry from my personal list of (light-hearted) Gun Forum Definitions:

Bashing: When someone says anything negative about a firearm/caliber/accessory you like or own.



Note that I've specifically stated that this definition is light-hearted and even added a smiley emoticon. Humor. It's humor folks.

[USNRet93]

Originally Posted by zxcvbob

What is the point of this thread and its provocative title? The people who don't like Taurus don't seem to be the ones who are upset, in spite of being called "haters"

What I Don't Like About Glock...thread in SemiAction HG section

Same gig..I have been in the bicycle biz for decades and mentioning Rapha or Mention Apple anything, same thing..Rolex too..

Easy to be a anonymous key board commando and throw 'stuff' onto a (bike/phone/car/motorcycle/watch/blah/blah)forum..

[TxFlyFish]

If I find a cheap Taurus I’ll buy it...BUT only from a place that takes care of the warranty shipping back and forth like Academy

[chaim]

I am not a Taurus hater or basher. I used to be a big proponent of them. If someone on a website has limited money and wants to buy certain specific Taurus firearms, as long as they have a realistic set of expectations, I don't automatically try to steer them away. I will never buy another Taurus myself.

My first handgun was a Taurus 82. Not perfect, trigger wasn't great in DA, and sometimes the ejection rod would unscrew a little making it hard to open (maybe some loctite would have helped, but it was my first handgun so I didn't feel comfortable doing anything like that), but overall it was a good gun.

I owned a Taurus 605 which was a good gun, though I put only 500-1000 rounds through it before selling it (I've never really liked small framed snubs in .357mag very much).'

I have a 1991 vintage Taurus 85CH which has been a great gun. I haven't shot it in a few years, and when in a state where I can carry I no longer bring it and carry it (or any 5 shot snub). However, I can't bring myself to sell it.

I have a 2nd gen Millennium, a DAO PT140 Millennium Pro. It was a great gun, until it wasn't. I put about 2K rounds through it so I guess I got my money's worth. My biggest issue is that the problem could have been much more serious than it was. It wouldn't feed- I'd feed a round from the mag and the slide would get jammed up. When loading it I tried it a couple times before my examination showed me what happened. The firing pin was stuck in the firing position. Thank God it got jammed up on the rim of the round and didn't engage the primer (if loading for HD that would have at least been a ND, and possibly would have gone full auto until firing off the mag). Oh yeah, I also had the rear sights get loose several times and eventually fly off the gun.

A few years ago I bought a 2" Rossi 461 (owned and made by Taurus). I've periodically had the cylinder get jammed so it wouldn't rotate or open a number of times when firing magnums. An internet search of Taurus Armed and many non-brand specific sites show that this is not exactly an uncommon problem with new production Taurus and Rossi products.

So, between my issues, the lawsuit (which I haven't even gone into), the common issues found on the net (many of them being repeats of the same set of issues), and poor Taurus customer service if you do have a problem, I don't feel comfortable buying them. They are cheap, they do have a good warranty (or rather, they used to since they are phasing out the lifetime warranty), and you can (and often will) get a good one. So, I don't really try to talk people out of getting them. However, I will sometimes engage in the conversation when people try to say they are as good as X (pick higher end brand with substantially better track record) or when they try to suggest that any criticism of Taurus is unjustified or only done by "haters" (my apologies to those out there who criticized Taurus when I used to do this).

[MillCreek]

I have around 18 or so handguns, all told. I am at a stage of my life where I can afford to buy whatever I want. I have more Ruger revolvers and S&W pistols than any other brand. I also own two Taurus pistols and five Taurus revolvers. I buy Taurus because they offer me features that I cannot find elsewhere. I have not had any problems with any of my Taurus handguns. I wish they would bring back the titanium concealed carry revolvers, since I would like a few more of those. In the last calendar year, I bought a Ruger Blackhawk, two Taurus Protector Poly revolvers, a Ruger GP-100 and a Kahr CW9. I didn't actually need any of them, but I wanted them for particular purposes. The Protector Poly revolvers are in my 'tool guns' category, since I like to use corrosion-resistant .357 revolvers for my outdoor recreation of hiking, biking, XC skiing and snowshoeing in the wet part of the Pacific Northwest.

[J.G. Terry]

Taurus Millennium: Not a hater! Some years back I was given a Millennium in 45ACP. The would not work. Pull the trigger and nothing. Sent the gun back. The handgun was repaired. Finally got to shoot the gun. I would only feed FMJ bullets. One of my shooting partners has a 1911. That gun is well made, accurate and reliable. However on the issue of personal protection handguns I want no part of Taurus. Yes, I know the handguns have been improved in most areas. I'd rather save my money and get a Glock.

[dgludwig]

Here's an entry from my personal list of (light-hearted) Gun Forum Definitions:

Bashing: When someone says anything negative about a firearm/caliber/accessory you like or own.

Good Sportsman: Someone who likes to do what I want to do whenever I want to do it.