.357s in ported vs .38s in unported snubs ???

GDB · May 1, 2002, 09:27 PM

In general, how do .357 rounds from a ported snub compare to .38 SPL or .38SPL+P rounds from a similar but unported snub?
** IN GENERAL - Yes, I know "General" covers a wide area.**

I've seen a lot of discussion on the merits of using .357s and .38s in snubs and about the pros and cons of porting but I have not seen a discussion combining these two issues.

I am seeking comments to help me decide on some local purchase options. One of these options is a Ruger SP 101 (.357, 2 1/4" barrel) that has a trigger job and poting done by Jack Weigand.

Thanks.

GDB

Will Beararms · May 1, 2002, 10:49 PM

No porting on a snub period. The flash is huge and imagine what happens if you shoot it from a coat pocket. I have shot my Model 60 Snub with both 110 and 125 grain .357's and quite frankly, it's not pleasurable but it's not that bad. To me it's more of a "buck". I had a Smith 3953 9mm and due to the high bore axis, the thing made my hand tingle with pain---------------that I do not like.

Lennyjoe · May 1, 2002, 11:23 PM

I have to concur with Will Beararms. I dont like the thought of a ported snub nose either.

Mikeseli · May 1, 2002, 11:31 PM

I'm by no means an expert on this, but have received some pretty good advice.
I have two snubbie .38 revolvers; a Taurus model 85 and a Rossi model 352.
Both are a joy to shoot, and I've spent alot of time with each. For "nightstand duty," they have Federal Hydra-Shok 110 grain jacketed hollow points.
I practice with UMC "yellow." I know .357 is more effective, but the .38's are such a snap to use, I figure for control and follow ups, that's the way I want to go.
Oh, I agree with previous post...no porting. Not needed with .38, not desired with .357.
My 2 cents.

GDB · May 1, 2002, 11:52 PM

Thanks for your comments but I see now my first post was probably not clear enough. What I was trying to ask for was a comparison of the the defensive effectivness of a .357 round fired from a snub with a ported barrel compared to a .38 round from a similar but unported snub.

I am aware of and understand many of the comments about the problems of ported snubs. I am leary of ported barrels on defensive guns. I am also, however, aware there are others out there that have little trouble with porting. I really not trying to reawaken those discussions. I'm just trying to find out about the defensive effectivness of the two described situations holding flash, blowback, and reaqusition of target constant. Granted, I am not describing a real world situation. I'm posing more of an academic wondering.

GDB

Mikeseli · May 2, 2002, 12:53 AM

Well, as an academic excercise, I don't know enough to venture an informed opinion. But as a practical matter, I entrust my life (here in crime ridden southern california) to the regular .38 subbie with JHP ammo. To my way of thinking, less "oomph" but more comfortable to use. This means more confidence in a crises (at least to me), better shot placement and more followup shots if necessary. Talking close range here (within the same room), don't need a cannon.
Regards,
Mike

Jim March · May 2, 2002, 01:55 AM

Porting costs you velocity. Question is, how much?

Having examined several, I'd say you're losing the equivelent of .5" to 1" worth of velocity. NOT necessarily that much barrel worth of accuracy - that's a different point.

If we go with the old rule of thumb that says you gain 50fps for every extra inch of barrel, then at worst you'll lose 50fps.

On the other hand, .357 in a snubby is generally worth 150fps or more from the same gun shooting .38+P (with the same bullet weight and type).

So porting won't take you all the way back to .38+P level.

--------------------

All that said, DO NOT have your snubby ported. You need all the velocity you can get, and if it's close to your body you could be pointing rockets right at some part of your anatomy.

Tom B · May 2, 2002, 04:22 AM

I don't know about 357 vs 38 porting but last weekend I did shoot a Taurus 85 multialloy against my heavier 85UL. The multialloy was ported and the UL wasn't. I was very surprised in the difference in recoil between the two with the ported of course the better. I didn't notice any excessive muzzle flash but I was shooting in the daylight.

jimsbowies · May 2, 2002, 08:22 AM

With all due respect to MagnaPort and Taurus and the S&W performance center and anyone else porting the snubnose revolvers....I ask one simple question...WHY?

I don't know if this is the boy-warrior, suburban "ninja" thing or what....or whether the ports emit a "sharks-gill" impression that makes the owner feel like he's got something special....

But boys and girls....shooting one of these shorties with ports only insures that 1) you'll not be able to see for the follow-up shot and 2) that the noise level will be severely increased and 3) that you'll likely get some lead splatter on your face/hand...whatever..

I've fired super-tuned MagnaPort Model 19's and 60's....Taurus and Smith revolvers and I wouldn't own one if you gave it to me with the condition that it would have to be my carry or defense weapon...

I'm certain that the porting makes sense on long-barrel hunting or target weapons...but on a short defense carry gun....you'll be making a huge mistake.....and I mean HUGE
:barf:

prisoner6 · May 2, 2002, 08:55 AM

jimsbowies,

Greetings from a fellow Charlottean. I understand all of these arguments on porting vs. non, and only have my own experiences, but I dont believe porting is the evil its painted to be. I agree that I wouldnt want it on a pocket gun, or a really short barreled snub, but I love it on my 3" 681. I also have a unported 4" 681 and I really dont notice a huge flash difference between the two. The ported is a good deal noisier inside the range however. Also I wouldnt want to shoot either of them right under my face, the fireball from the unported wouldnt be any fun either. Truth is, this isnt one of those right or wrong deals, just a personal choice. I enjoy the muzzle control offered by the ported barrel. Just me i guess.

jimsbowies · May 2, 2002, 09:13 AM

I've fired so many types and calibers of handguns in my life that I cannot remember them...something to do with old age I suppose..

But I find the ported short-barrel defensive or carry guns to be more than just problematic....If you've ever actually been involved in a shooting with a handgun, you'll know that the "one-shot stop" is pretty much a function of television fantasy....

With that a a predicate for this thread, I'm inclined to think that the capacity of the defensive shooter to keep focused and on target for a second or even third round is of paramount importance.....

I've fired the ported guns in controlled circumstances...meaning a range with ear and eye protection....and still was blinded and had powder/lead splatter that would have clearly interrupted a second and third shot had I been without protection....hell, it interrupted the second and third shots WITH eye and ear protection....

Probably once you get out beyond 3 or 4 inches in barrel length, the noise, flash and splatter are either minimal or non-existant...but....well, you get my point..

Eric Larsen · May 2, 2002, 10:22 AM

Hmmm. Velocity for the two rounds are much different. 38+P from a snubby will be around 900-950 FPS with a 125-130 gr load...= approx. 200 FPE The 357 mag is around 1200-1300 FPS
with a 400+ FPE...we shot two ported 357 snubbies and while velocities were off....no more than 5-10% less than the non ported guns. Flash wasnt much different with or without porting.
Either way...it lights up everything around you....
Great different between the two calibers....not much effect on ballistics for porting vs non.
Shoot well

Tom B · May 2, 2002, 10:51 AM

Shoot some ultralite Ti or Scandi J frames without porting where the recoil is so sharp that bullets are umcrimping inside the cyl. Then try the ported ones and you will see a big difference. I see why Taurus ports their Tis from the factory. Another comparison I recently made was shooting my ported 357 Taurus Tracker 4in against my Ruger 357 Blackhawk 6.5in. The Ruger was much heavier but the Tracker recoiled less due to ports and ribber grips. Until recently I had never shot a ported handgun.

Jack Weigand · May 2, 2002, 10:53 AM

We have been Hybra-Porting revolvers since the late 80's. I have found the following to be true.

Loud! A good portion of the blast is generated above the gun making it seem sharper.

Velocity. I have done extensive testing and I see from 2% to 4% loss as normal. Excessive cylinder gaps can loose more velocity than porting.

Flash. I believe after testing, the non-ported snubbies have more flash. The ball of flames comes out directly in the line of sight on a non ported gun where the ported gun directs the flash aprox a foot above the barrel in a ploom.

Firing the gun close to your body. The vented gases will do damage if held too close.

Muzzle flip. Hybra-Port reduces muzzle flip up to 70%.

My suggestions are as follows. If you are recoil shy and muzzle flip bothers you, have your gun ported. If not porting is of no use.

A link to our web. http://www.jackweigand.com/pistolsmithing/hybrapor.html

God Bless
Jack Weigand

VictorLouis · May 2, 2002, 11:50 AM

Quote:

..shooting one of these shorties with ports only insures that 1) you'll not be able to see for the follow-up shot and 2) that the noise level will be severely increased and 3) that you'll likely get some lead splatter on your face/hand...whatever..

Not just picking on you, jimsbowies, I just see the same line-of-thought repeated on the boards from time-to-time. It makes me wonder how many posters have actually shot ported handguns, particularly at night?

First of all, if the muzzle fireball doesn't stun your vision, in and of itself, then I don't think that porting will somehow magnify that enough to do so. For ammo that does create great flash, the effect on my eyes subsides by the time the muzzle returns back down from recoil and I can pick up my front sight for the next shot. There's so much variety in ammo to pick from now, you really can eliminate that problem altogether.

For revolvers, particulate matter ejects from each side out of the barrel-cylinder gap. If that detritus doesn't effect you, then the I don't think the porting is of any concern unless you are somehow forced to fire with the gun right under your chin.

If there is a lot of discharge with a particular brand, switch brands. If it occurs with most everything, then you probably have a problem with your revolver.

As to the noise, anything above a .22LR is pretty deafening anyway. Go with the most effective cartridge you can control for repeated fire in your chosen gun.

ATTICUS · May 2, 2002, 01:42 PM

I just bought a used M60 2.5" that is magna-ported. I've only shot .38+p through it so far, but didn't notice anything dramatic about it, i.e no blazing muzzle blast, no metal frags, nor was it noticably louder than the M66 I was firing. I did find the M60 to be much more controllable, and comfortable, than my old M36 with the same load. Is porting worth the extra cost? I don't know if I would pay extra for it, but I don't see a problem with it either. I'll report back after I shoot some .38 and .357 loads.

Tom B · May 2, 2002, 01:50 PM

IMO porting works for what it is designed for but I would not take an unported gun and pay extra to have it ported. At least not in 38spl or 357mag cals. By the same token I would not refuse to purchase a gun because it was ported. Ported or unported is fine with me. Now if I fire a ported (or unported) gun that close to my body then it is going to be a life or death situation. Being burned by the gases will probably be the last thing on my mind. During one of the Rangemasters classes we had to hold our pistol slide with an ungloved hand and fire one round while holding the pistol very close to our body. I was using a Glock 17. I was much more concerned with what the slide was going to do to my hand than what the gases would do. Slide wasn't too bad and I don't remember anything about gas damage or lack thereof.

xcop · May 2, 2002, 06:16 PM

I own a Taurus 605 that came ported. In firing 357 ammo thru it I do not notice an increase in flash. Comparing it to my Smith 640 and my Sp101's......2 1/4 and 3 in it has substantially less muzzle climp and "snap". It makes the snub 357 feel like a very hot 38.

May 1, 2002, 09:27 PM	#1
GDB Member Join Date: February 2, 2002 Posts: 19	.357s in ported vs .38s in unported snubs ??? In general, how do .357 rounds from a ported snub compare to .38 SPL or .38SPL+P rounds from a similar but unported snub? IN GENERAL - Yes, I know "General" covers a wide area. I've seen a lot of discussion on the merits of using .357s and .38s in snubs and about the pros and cons of porting but I have not seen a discussion combining these two issues. I am seeking comments to help me decide on some local purchase options. One of these options is a Ruger SP 101 (.357, 2 1/4" barrel) that has a trigger job and poting done by Jack Weigand. Thanks. GDB

May 1, 2002, 10:49 PM	#2
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	No porting on a snub period. The flash is huge and imagine what happens if you shoot it from a coat pocket. I have shot my Model 60 Snub with both 110 and 125 grain .357's and quite frankly, it's not pleasurable but it's not that bad. To me it's more of a "buck". I had a Smith 3953 9mm and due to the high bore axis, the thing made my hand tingle with pain---------------that I do not like. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

May 1, 2002, 11:23 PM	#3
Lennyjoe Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2001 Location: Southwest Ohio Posts: 1,150	I have to concur with Will Beararms. I dont like the thought of a ported snub nose either. __________________ If you see a Military man or a Vet, stop him and say "Thanks".

May 2, 2002, 01:55 AM	#7
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Porting costs you velocity. Question is, how much? Having examined several, I'd say you're losing the equivelent of .5" to 1" worth of velocity. NOT necessarily that much barrel worth of accuracy - that's a different point. If we go with the old rule of thumb that says you gain 50fps for every extra inch of barrel, then at worst you'll lose 50fps. On the other hand, .357 in a snubby is generally worth 150fps or more from the same gun shooting .38+P (with the same bullet weight and type). So porting won't take you all the way back to .38+P level. -------------------- All that said, DO NOT have your snubby ported. You need all the velocity you can get, and if it's close to your body you could be pointing rockets right at some part of your anatomy. __________________ Jim March

May 2, 2002, 08:22 AM	#9
jimsbowies Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2002 Location: Charlotte Posts: 332	an answer in search of a question With all due respect to MagnaPort and Taurus and the S&W performance center and anyone else porting the snubnose revolvers....I ask one simple question...WHY? I don't know if this is the boy-warrior, suburban "ninja" thing or what....or whether the ports emit a "sharks-gill" impression that makes the owner feel like he's got something special.... But boys and girls....shooting one of these shorties with ports only insures that 1) you'll not be able to see for the follow-up shot and 2) that the noise level will be severely increased and 3) that you'll likely get some lead splatter on your face/hand...whatever.. I've fired super-tuned MagnaPort Model 19's and 60's....Taurus and Smith revolvers and I wouldn't own one if you gave it to me with the condition that it would have to be my carry or defense weapon... I'm certain that the porting makes sense on long-barrel hunting or target weapons...but on a short defense carry gun....you'll be making a huge mistake.....and I mean HUGE :barf:

May 1, 2002, 11:31 PM	#4
Mikeseli Member Join Date: April 1, 2002 Location: Adirondacks Region of NY Posts: 60	I'm by no means an expert on this, but have received some pretty good advice. I have two snubbie .38 revolvers; a Taurus model 85 and a Rossi model 352. Both are a joy to shoot, and I've spent alot of time with each. For "nightstand duty," they have Federal Hydra-Shok 110 grain jacketed hollow points. I practice with UMC "yellow." I know .357 is more effective, but the .38's are such a snap to use, I figure for control and follow ups, that's the way I want to go. Oh, I agree with previous post...no porting. Not needed with .38, not desired with .357. My 2 cents.

May 1, 2002, 11:52 PM	#5
GDB Member Join Date: February 2, 2002 Posts: 19	Thanks for your comments but I see now my first post was probably not clear enough. What I was trying to ask for was a comparison of the the defensive effectivness of a .357 round fired from a snub with a ported barrel compared to a .38 round from a similar but unported snub. I am aware of and understand many of the comments about the problems of ported snubs. I am leary of ported barrels on defensive guns. I am also, however, aware there are others out there that have little trouble with porting. I really not trying to reawaken those discussions. I'm just trying to find out about the defensive effectivness of the two described situations holding flash, blowback, and reaqusition of target constant. Granted, I am not describing a real world situation. I'm posing more of an academic wondering. GDB

May 2, 2002, 12:53 AM	#6
Mikeseli Member Join Date: April 1, 2002 Location: Adirondacks Region of NY Posts: 60	Well, as an academic excercise, I don't know enough to venture an informed opinion. But as a practical matter, I entrust my life (here in crime ridden southern california) to the regular .38 subbie with JHP ammo. To my way of thinking, less "oomph" but more comfortable to use. This means more confidence in a crises (at least to me), better shot placement and more followup shots if necessary. Talking close range here (within the same room), don't need a cannon. Regards, Mike

May 2, 2002, 04:22 AM	#8
Tom B Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 1999 Location: GA Posts: 1,836	I don't know about 357 vs 38 porting but last weekend I did shoot a Taurus 85 multialloy against my heavier 85UL. The multialloy was ported and the UL wasn't. I was very surprised in the difference in recoil between the two with the ported of course the better. I didn't notice any excessive muzzle flash but I was shooting in the daylight.

May 2, 2002, 08:55 AM	#10
prisoner6 Member Join Date: July 6, 2001 Location: North Carolina Posts: 56	jimsbowies, Greetings from a fellow Charlottean. I understand all of these arguments on porting vs. non, and only have my own experiences, but I dont believe porting is the evil its painted to be. I agree that I wouldnt want it on a pocket gun, or a really short barreled snub, but I love it on my 3" 681. I also have a unported 4" 681 and I really dont notice a huge flash difference between the two. The ported is a good deal noisier inside the range however. Also I wouldnt want to shoot either of them right under my face, the fireball from the unported wouldnt be any fun either. Truth is, this isnt one of those right or wrong deals, just a personal choice. I enjoy the muzzle control offered by the ported barrel. Just me i guess.

May 2, 2002, 09:13 AM	#11
jimsbowies Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2002 Location: Charlotte Posts: 332	point well taken I've fired so many types and calibers of handguns in my life that I cannot remember them...something to do with old age I suppose.. But I find the ported short-barrel defensive or carry guns to be more than just problematic....If you've ever actually been involved in a shooting with a handgun, you'll know that the "one-shot stop" is pretty much a function of television fantasy.... With that a a predicate for this thread, I'm inclined to think that the capacity of the defensive shooter to keep focused and on target for a second or even third round is of paramount importance..... I've fired the ported guns in controlled circumstances...meaning a range with ear and eye protection....and still was blinded and had powder/lead splatter that would have clearly interrupted a second and third shot had I been without protection....hell, it interrupted the second and third shots WITH eye and ear protection.... Probably once you get out beyond 3 or 4 inches in barrel length, the noise, flash and splatter are either minimal or non-existant...but....well, you get my point..

May 2, 2002, 10:22 AM	#12
Eric Larsen Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2001 Location: Bountiful....Ut. Posts: 3,226	Hmmm. Velocity for the two rounds are much different. 38+P from a snubby will be around 900-950 FPS with a 125-130 gr load...= approx. 200 FPE The 357 mag is around 1200-1300 FPS with a 400+ FPE...we shot two ported 357 snubbies and while velocities were off....no more than 5-10% less than the non ported guns. Flash wasnt much different with or without porting. Either way...it lights up everything around you.... Great different between the two calibers....not much effect on ballistics for porting vs non. Shoot well __________________ If they dont know you have a gun.....then I did alright! If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice......Rush

May 2, 2002, 10:51 AM	#13
Tom B Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 1999 Location: GA Posts: 1,836	Porting Shoot some ultralite Ti or Scandi J frames without porting where the recoil is so sharp that bullets are umcrimping inside the cyl. Then try the ported ones and you will see a big difference. I see why Taurus ports their Tis from the factory. Another comparison I recently made was shooting my ported 357 Taurus Tracker 4in against my Ruger 357 Blackhawk 6.5in. The Ruger was much heavier but the Tracker recoiled less due to ports and ribber grips. Until recently I had never shot a ported handgun.

May 2, 2002, 10:53 AM	#14
Jack Weigand Member Join Date: August 15, 2001 Location: Mountaintop, PA Posts: 56	We have been Hybra-Porting revolvers since the late 80's. I have found the following to be true. Loud! A good portion of the blast is generated above the gun making it seem sharper. Velocity. I have done extensive testing and I see from 2% to 4% loss as normal. Excessive cylinder gaps can loose more velocity than porting. Flash. I believe after testing, the non-ported snubbies have more flash. The ball of flames comes out directly in the line of sight on a non ported gun where the ported gun directs the flash aprox a foot above the barrel in a ploom. Firing the gun close to your body. The vented gases will do damage if held too close. Muzzle flip. Hybra-Port reduces muzzle flip up to 70%. My suggestions are as follows. If you are recoil shy and muzzle flip bothers you, have your gun ported. If not porting is of no use. A link to our web. http://www.jackweigand.com/pistolsmithing/hybrapor.html God Bless Jack Weigand __________________ God Bless Jack Weigand http://www.jackweigand.com Weigand Combat Handguns Inc.

May 2, 2002, 01:42 PM	#16
ATTICUS Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,100	I just bought a used M60 2.5" that is magna-ported. I've only shot .38+p through it so far, but didn't notice anything dramatic about it, i.e no blazing muzzle blast, no metal frags, nor was it noticably louder than the M66 I was firing. I did find the M60 to be much more controllable, and comfortable, than my old M36 with the same load. Is porting worth the extra cost? I don't know if I would pay extra for it, but I don't see a problem with it either. I'll report back after I shoot some .38 and .357 loads. __________________ Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain

May 2, 2002, 01:50 PM	#17
Tom B Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 1999 Location: GA Posts: 1,836	Two Additional Thoughts IMO porting works for what it is designed for but I would not take an unported gun and pay extra to have it ported. At least not in 38spl or 357mag cals. By the same token I would not refuse to purchase a gun because it was ported. Ported or unported is fine with me. Now if I fire a ported (or unported) gun that close to my body then it is going to be a life or death situation. Being burned by the gases will probably be the last thing on my mind. During one of the Rangemasters classes we had to hold our pistol slide with an ungloved hand and fire one round while holding the pistol very close to our body. I was using a Glock 17. I was much more concerned with what the slide was going to do to my hand than what the gases would do. Slide wasn't too bad and I don't remember anything about gas damage or lack thereof.

May 2, 2002, 06:16 PM	#18
xcop Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2001 Posts: 124	porting I own a Taurus 605 that came ported. In firing 357 ammo thru it I do not notice an increase in flash. Comparing it to my Smith 640 and my Sp101's......2 1/4 and 3 in it has substantially less muzzle climp and "snap". It makes the snub 357 feel like a very hot 38.