.357 Sig

renaissance7697 · July 8, 2002, 10:16 AM

Let's talk about .357 Sig

I have an opportunity at a .357 Sig Handgun
Before I dive in I want to learn more about reloading for it.
(I'm sure not up for buying factory at those prices)

Midway lists Die Sets by Lee/RCBS/and Redding.

None are Carbide
All say they must be lubed
(I load for 32/38/38/357/9/40/&45 - All/Most? my Die sets are carbide and I have NEVER Had to Lube)
I guess the bottleneck requires it- None of the above are
Is the apparent need for lubrication a real Hassel?

Lee sells > 3 Die Set
1)Size
2)Expand
3)Seat & "Feed"(?) > (Do they mean Seat and crimp?)

RCBS sells > 2 Die Set
1)Size Expand
2)Seat and Roll Crimp
*** They also Sell a "Trim" Die
Is it commonly necessary to "trim" 357 Sig

Redding sells > 3 Die Set
1)Full Length Sizing
2)Neck Sizing
3)Seat with Crimp "Ring"
*** In addition they also sell a "Taper" Crimp

What is the scoop?
a) Do you have to bot Full Length Size AND Neck Size or are these alternatives?

b)Should you "Roll" or "Taper" crimp? or is this also a choice

c) Is it often necessary to "Trim to Length"

d) Is .357 Sig worth the hassel ? or should I take up Golf

Jeeper · July 8, 2002, 12:20 PM

I have a 357 sig in a Sig 229. It is a cool crrtridge. I load it on my Dillon 650 using Dillon Dies. For all the trouble it is worth I am not sure how usefull it is. Since the brass isnt that cheap I always end up searching for every last piece. I haven’t lubed the brass and cant remember if the dillon dies are carbide or not. I have never had any problems. It really depends on how much you want the gun. I cant give advise on your other questions.

hitnthexring · July 8, 2002, 05:53 PM

The ammo for 357 Sig is now pretty reasonably priced. I don't reload that caliber.

euclid · July 8, 2002, 10:17 PM

I reload for the .357 SIG on a single stage press using Lee dies. I haven't been able to to get my progressive press set up right so as to be able to chug 'em out so I just bang away on the single stage press. I don't find this cartridge all that difficult to reload. I WOULD NOT suggest that someone new to reloading cut their teeth on this cartridge but if you have any prior experience reloading you'll find it quite enjoyable to generate loads for.

shu · July 9, 2002, 02:19 AM

First, a word of caution. I am a *novice* reloader. Check whatever I say against a good book or another source. Best, go to

http://petej55.home.mindspring.com/

I do 308win, 223rem, 38spl, 358mag, 357sig, and 9mm on the single stage rock chucker.

The 357sig loads like a small bottleneck (rifle) cartridge. Because of the small size, therefore small contact surface between case and bullet, good and consistent crimping is important to keep the bullet from moving in the case.

The bottleneck die set (I use RCBS) includes two dies. The core piece of the first die has an expander ball (above the de-priming pin). The case is sized in on the downstroke of the press handle, and the case mouth is sized out on the up-stroke.

For whatever reason, carbide insert is inappropriate with bottleneck dies. I roll the cases on the RCBS lube pad. With a progressive press you could probably hit every third or fourth case with a shot of spray lube, or put a lube die at the first station. No big deal.

With no brittle carbide ring the first die is set right down on the case holder, such that you feel the die just contact the case holder and then back off as the ram handle goes overcenter.

The second die seats the bullet and can be/is adjusted for a bit of taper crimp. Roll crimp is for 38spl wadcutter or bullets with crimp canelure; not appropriate here (and in any event not available, since dies are milled at the factory to be either taper crimp or roll crimp).

The second die of the usual straight-wall cartridge set, which bells the case mouth, is not used with bottleneck cartridges. Aint needed here. I have heretofore only loaded 357sig with the speer 4362 bullet. This has a bit of chamfer at the base to assist in clean entry to the case. For economy however the next batch will be trying some ranier plated bullets.

Bottleneck rifle cartridges tend to grow in length with each reload. This is a problem and is solved by milling off some of the case mouth after the sizing die step. If you don't have the usual case trimmer rig, the 'trim die' will hold the case so you can file off any extra length with a hand file.

The 357sig is said to seat on the case mouth like most straight wall rimless pistol cartridges, rather than on the shoulder like bottleneck rifle cartridges. I aint so sure that is true. However I have not had any problem of case length growing with use, therefore no need to trim. Do your own research on this.

I am not into neck sizing. The idea here (i believe) is that the case fire-forms to your particular rifle chamber. By sizing only above the neck for the next reload, accuracy is improved because the case seats exactly in the chamber. Also the metal is worked less, thus extending case life. For pistol, just size the whole case.

With a progressive press you will want however to get the lee factory crimp die (in 40s&w) for the final stage. I do not have one, but will likely get one soon. This will not help in the crimp area, but will resize the case below the neck (which may have been deformed in the seat/crimp step) to good factory dimensions. This reduces feed problems. Otherwise, remove the barrel from your pistol and check all/most finished cartridges drop in and fall out of the barrel easily.

The lee factory crimp die is universally touted by posters here and at glock talk.

I have had (with my limited experience) no problem with bullet set back. I use blue dot powder, which pretty much fills the case (and seems to throw a nice blue flame, if you are into that).

When I got the glock 31 I thought 357sig would be the cat's meow, the perfect cartridge. Since then, through getting into reloading, I have a broader understanding of the many factors involved.

With pistol, you shoot alot. Unit cost for the cartridge is more important than with rifle. Keeping bullet cost down means less copper, more lead. But less copper means a softer bullet, which limits velocity. The extra powder capacity is useful in law enforcement where barrier penetration may be needed, but for general shooting why not just stick with 9mm instead of 9mm on steroids.

That said, I am happy with the 357sig. I started reloading with 308win and am comfortable with a bottleneck pistol cartridge. Go for it.

Sub MOA · July 9, 2002, 04:24 AM

The .357 Sig is a great cartridge --- a slick-feeding 9mm on steroids.

The simple solution to reloading this bottleneck is to invest in a .40 S&W replacement barrel. I carry .357Sig w/ Gold Dots and shoot my own economical .40 reloads at the range. Since I was already set up to reload .40 this was a logical and economical decision for me.

Regarding headspace mentioned in an earlier reply, I was under the impression the .357 Sig headspaced on the shoulder??? Years ago the first box of ammo I purchased was some commercial reloads that had been improperly resized. I got approx. 40% light firing pin strikes and 10% of the box failed to fire. Upon closer inspection it was evident the case length was within specs, but the shoulder wasn't correct. Purchased some Federal Classic and Speer Gold Dots and got 100% reliability and good strong firing pin strikes. FWIW.

Sub

renaissance7697 · July 9, 2002, 07:59 AM

SHU:
Thank you for the detailed account of your personal experience reloading the .357 SIG.
This is exactly what I was looking for.
For an "Amature" (??), I think you have a remarkable insight toward what's involved from a practical perspective.

The only observation of yours that I would take issue with; is the use of a ".40 S&W" Lee Factory Crimp.
(Unless you removed the "crimp" portion and just used the "full length resizing" feature".

Also, I note that Redding sells a "taper Crimp" Die for this cartridge, as well as a "Roll" (included in their standard combination Seating Crimping Die)
Seems THEY at least belive there is an option here.

Thank you (and all the others) for your input.
After considering all comments I think I will hold off on .357 Sig for now.
I am a "recreational shooter" and the formost advantage in the .357 Sig seems to be in its leathality.

I am turned off by the necessity for Lubeing before sizing and the problem of checking for, and trimming if necessary; case length.

Other than the experience/novelty of playing with a new caliber,
It seems that (as someone noted) it may be arguably "more trouble to reload than it is worth"; at least for MY purposes.

Thank you all!

Now........ What about .50 AE?

( Just kidding !!! )

renaissance

nyetter · July 9, 2002, 01:25 PM

FWIW, I see a lot of .357SIG brass change hands on eBay for very reasonable prices.

SDBettas · July 9, 2002, 01:35 PM

I've recently started reloading on a Dillon 550B and I am only loading my .40S&W and .357 Sig. I've found the sig round to be as easy to reload as any other cartridge. Bullet selection for the .357 sig is probably the most critical element of reloading, as the standard "long nose" style 9mm bullets don't work well. Get yourself some FP bullets like those sold by West Coast Bullet. They have 9mm 124gr FP plated bullets that are great to reload.

Since there is a small area ahead of the shoulder to actually grip the bullet, you just need to make sure you have a good taper crimp on it so that you cannot move the bullet with a good amount of thumb pressure. I've been using the RCBS two-die set for Sig, and lubing is necessary if you want to get more life out of your brass and your dies. Many people recommend lubing if you use the over $100 a set carbide Dillon dies. Get yourself some of the Dillon Spray lube, its a snap, no lub pads and all that jazz, just place some out on a flat surface and give em a couple sprays and you are set.

Peter M. Eick · July 12, 2002, 08:43 AM

I think the comments above are quite good.

I find that using AA9 and dillon die set are great for the sig.

I found the dillon is the best sizer, rcbs is my expander (just barely polished), I seat with a lee seater and crimp with an Rcbs die. I actually have all these various dies as I experimented to get the "perfect" setup for my pro2000.

My sig229sport is exceptionally accurate and a "blast" if you max out the loads with aa9 and 90 grn jhps. "It will raise the dead" according to one RO.

July 8, 2002, 10:16 AM	#1
renaissance7697 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2001 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 203	.357 Sig Let's talk about .357 Sig I have an opportunity at a .357 Sig Handgun Before I dive in I want to learn more about reloading for it. (I'm sure not up for buying factory at those prices) Midway lists Die Sets by Lee/RCBS/and Redding. None are Carbide All say they must be lubed (I load for 32/38/38/357/9/40/&45 - All/Most? my Die sets are carbide and I have NEVER Had to Lube) I guess the bottleneck requires it- None of the above are Is the apparent need for lubrication a real Hassel? Lee sells > 3 Die Set 1)Size 2)Expand 3)Seat & "Feed"(?) > (Do they mean Seat and crimp?) RCBS sells > 2 Die Set 1)Size Expand 2)Seat and Roll Crimp * They also Sell a "Trim" Die Is it commonly necessary to "trim" 357 Sig Redding sells > 3 Die Set 1)Full Length Sizing 2)Neck Sizing 3)Seat with Crimp "Ring" * In addition they also sell a "Taper" Crimp What is the scoop? a) Do you have to bot Full Length Size AND Neck Size or are these alternatives? b)Should you "Roll" or "Taper" crimp? or is this also a choice c) Is it often necessary to "Trim to Length" d) Is .357 Sig worth the hassel ? or should I take up Golf __________________ An Armed Society, Is a Polite Society.

July 8, 2002, 12:20 PM	#2
Jeeper Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 776	I have a 357 sig in a Sig 229. It is a cool crrtridge. I load it on my Dillon 650 using Dillon Dies. For all the trouble it is worth I am not sure how usefull it is. Since the brass isnt that cheap I always end up searching for every last piece. I haven’t lubed the brass and cant remember if the dillon dies are carbide or not. I have never had any problems. It really depends on how much you want the gun. I cant give advise on your other questions. __________________ Gun control theory - A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

July 9, 2002, 02:19 AM	#5
shu Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2000 Location: lower rio grande valley, texas Posts: 216	First, a word of caution. I am a novice reloader. Check whatever I say against a good book or another source. Best, go to http://petej55.home.mindspring.com/ I do 308win, 223rem, 38spl, 358mag, 357sig, and 9mm on the single stage rock chucker. The 357sig loads like a small bottleneck (rifle) cartridge. Because of the small size, therefore small contact surface between case and bullet, good and consistent crimping is important to keep the bullet from moving in the case. The bottleneck die set (I use RCBS) includes two dies. The core piece of the first die has an expander ball (above the de-priming pin). The case is sized in on the downstroke of the press handle, and the case mouth is sized out on the up-stroke. For whatever reason, carbide insert is inappropriate with bottleneck dies. I roll the cases on the RCBS lube pad. With a progressive press you could probably hit every third or fourth case with a shot of spray lube, or put a lube die at the first station. No big deal. With no brittle carbide ring the first die is set right down on the case holder, such that you feel the die just contact the case holder and then back off as the ram handle goes overcenter. The second die seats the bullet and can be/is adjusted for a bit of taper crimp. Roll crimp is for 38spl wadcutter or bullets with crimp canelure; not appropriate here (and in any event not available, since dies are milled at the factory to be either taper crimp or roll crimp). The second die of the usual straight-wall cartridge set, which bells the case mouth, is not used with bottleneck cartridges. Aint needed here. I have heretofore only loaded 357sig with the speer 4362 bullet. This has a bit of chamfer at the base to assist in clean entry to the case. For economy however the next batch will be trying some ranier plated bullets. Bottleneck rifle cartridges tend to grow in length with each reload. This is a problem and is solved by milling off some of the case mouth after the sizing die step. If you don't have the usual case trimmer rig, the 'trim die' will hold the case so you can file off any extra length with a hand file. The 357sig is said to seat on the case mouth like most straight wall rimless pistol cartridges, rather than on the shoulder like bottleneck rifle cartridges. I aint so sure that is true. However I have not had any problem of case length growing with use, therefore no need to trim. Do your own research on this. I am not into neck sizing. The idea here (i believe) is that the case fire-forms to your particular rifle chamber. By sizing only above the neck for the next reload, accuracy is improved because the case seats exactly in the chamber. Also the metal is worked less, thus extending case life. For pistol, just size the whole case. With a progressive press you will want however to get the lee factory crimp die (in 40s&w) for the final stage. I do not have one, but will likely get one soon. This will not help in the crimp area, but will resize the case below the neck (which may have been deformed in the seat/crimp step) to good factory dimensions. This reduces feed problems. Otherwise, remove the barrel from your pistol and check all/most finished cartridges drop in and fall out of the barrel easily. The lee factory crimp die is universally touted by posters here and at glock talk. I have had (with my limited experience) no problem with bullet set back. I use blue dot powder, which pretty much fills the case (and seems to throw a nice blue flame, if you are into that). When I got the glock 31 I thought 357sig would be the cat's meow, the perfect cartridge. Since then, through getting into reloading, I have a broader understanding of the many factors involved. With pistol, you shoot alot. Unit cost for the cartridge is more important than with rifle. Keeping bullet cost down means less copper, more lead. But less copper means a softer bullet, which limits velocity. The extra powder capacity is useful in law enforcement where barrier penetration may be needed, but for general shooting why not just stick with 9mm instead of 9mm on steroids. That said, I am happy with the 357sig. I started reloading with 308win and am comfortable with a bottleneck pistol cartridge. Go for it. __________________ If you would have Liberty you must accept that individual security is not the responsiblity of government. You must. - XAVIER ONASIS Last edited by shu; July 9, 2002 at 06:21 AM.

July 9, 2002, 07:59 AM	#7
renaissance7697 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2001 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 203	For "SHU" & others SHU: Thank you for the detailed account of your personal experience reloading the .357 SIG. This is exactly what I was looking for. For an "Amature" (??), I think you have a remarkable insight toward what's involved from a practical perspective. The only observation of yours that I would take issue with; is the use of a ".40 S&W" Lee Factory Crimp. (Unless you removed the "crimp" portion and just used the "full length resizing" feature". Also, I note that Redding sells a "taper Crimp" Die for this cartridge, as well as a "Roll" (included in their standard combination Seating Crimping Die) Seems THEY at least belive there is an option here. Thank you (and all the others) for your input. After considering all comments I think I will hold off on .357 Sig for now. I am a "recreational shooter" and the formost advantage in the .357 Sig seems to be in its leathality. I am turned off by the necessity for Lubeing before sizing and the problem of checking for, and trimming if necessary; case length. Other than the experience/novelty of playing with a new caliber, It seems that (as someone noted) it may be arguably "more trouble to reload than it is worth"; at least for MY purposes. Thank you all! Now........ What about .50 AE? ( Just kidding !!! ) renaissance __________________ An Armed Society, Is a Polite Society.

July 9, 2002, 01:35 PM	#9
SDBettas Junior Member Join Date: April 19, 2002 Location: Miami Posts: 10	Reloading 357 Sig I've recently started reloading on a Dillon 550B and I am only loading my .40S&W and .357 Sig. I've found the sig round to be as easy to reload as any other cartridge. Bullet selection for the .357 sig is probably the most critical element of reloading, as the standard "long nose" style 9mm bullets don't work well. Get yourself some FP bullets like those sold by West Coast Bullet. They have 9mm 124gr FP plated bullets that are great to reload. Since there is a small area ahead of the shoulder to actually grip the bullet, you just need to make sure you have a good taper crimp on it so that you cannot move the bullet with a good amount of thumb pressure. I've been using the RCBS two-die set for Sig, and lubing is necessary if you want to get more life out of your brass and your dies. Many people recommend lubing if you use the over $100 a set carbide Dillon dies. Get yourself some of the Dillon Spray lube, its a snap, no lub pads and all that jazz, just place some out on a flat surface and give em a couple sprays and you are set.

July 8, 2002, 05:53 PM	#3
hitnthexring Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2002 Posts: 223	The ammo for 357 Sig is now pretty reasonably priced. I don't reload that caliber.

July 8, 2002, 10:17 PM	#4
euclid Member Join Date: July 29, 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 59	I reload for the .357 SIG on a single stage press using Lee dies. I haven't been able to to get my progressive press set up right so as to be able to chug 'em out so I just bang away on the single stage press. I don't find this cartridge all that difficult to reload. I WOULD NOT suggest that someone new to reloading cut their teeth on this cartridge but if you have any prior experience reloading you'll find it quite enjoyable to generate loads for.

July 9, 2002, 04:24 AM	#6
Sub MOA Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2000 Location: WA Posts: 292	The .357 Sig is a great cartridge --- a slick-feeding 9mm on steroids. The simple solution to reloading this bottleneck is to invest in a .40 S&W replacement barrel. I carry .357Sig w/ Gold Dots and shoot my own economical .40 reloads at the range. Since I was already set up to reload .40 this was a logical and economical decision for me. Regarding headspace mentioned in an earlier reply, I was under the impression the .357 Sig headspaced on the shoulder??? Years ago the first box of ammo I purchased was some commercial reloads that had been improperly resized. I got approx. 40% light firing pin strikes and 10% of the box failed to fire. Upon closer inspection it was evident the case length was within specs, but the shoulder wasn't correct. Purchased some Federal Classic and Speer Gold Dots and got 100% reliability and good strong firing pin strikes. FWIW. Sub

July 9, 2002, 01:25 PM	#8
nyetter Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 342	FWIW, I see a lot of .357SIG brass change hands on eBay for very reasonable prices.

July 12, 2002, 08:43 AM	#10
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	I think the comments above are quite good. I find that using AA9 and dillon die set are great for the sig. I found the dillon is the best sizer, rcbs is my expander (just barely polished), I seat with a lee seater and crimp with an Rcbs die. I actually have all these various dies as I experimented to get the "perfect" setup for my pro2000. My sig229sport is exceptionally accurate and a "blast" if you max out the loads with aa9 and 90 grn jhps. "It will raise the dead" according to one RO. __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

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