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July 11, 2013, 01:33 PM | #276 | ||
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On appeal, a court of appeal can find --
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July 11, 2013, 01:40 PM | #277 | |
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July 11, 2013, 01:44 PM | #278 | |
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What I meant was: In your opinion, have you observed errors which you think could reasonably be reversible? If so, what were they? |
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July 11, 2013, 02:32 PM | #279 |
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As for reversible error or not, let's don't minimize the cost to GZ of an overturned conviction on a manslaughter charge. By cost, I mean the question "Have you ever been found guilty... "
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July 11, 2013, 02:41 PM | #280 | ||
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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July 11, 2013, 02:45 PM | #281 | |
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July 11, 2013, 03:12 PM | #282 | |
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On another note, I do not understand how a jury can find GZ acted in self defense as to 2nd Degree Murder, but then find him guilty of manslaughter. If there is any finding that he acted in self defense, wouldn't this also negate a manslaughter conviction? Seems inconsistent to me. |
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July 11, 2013, 03:40 PM | #283 |
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State's attorney BDLR is a hack. The intentional distortion of the evidence and testimony is astounding.
Also, instead of reinforcing what little hard evidence he has, he seems to be creating reasonable doubt as if he is a defense attorney. Very odd, but I guess when you've been dealt a pantload of a case, you do what you can. |
July 11, 2013, 03:57 PM | #284 |
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Politics; Seminole County FL, legal precedent
I think a few TFLers outside of central Florida do not really know & understand the political make-up of Seminole County(Sanford) Florida.
Seminole County is one of the smallest by size(square miles) & by population(residents & families not daytime population). The county has one of the higher tax bases in the state of Florida. Due mostly to Longwood, Heathrow, Lake Mary, & Altamonte Springs. These upscale communities are mostly gated & the county is mostly upper-middle class/upper-class. Sanford(the county seat) does have a few "bad" areas & some violent crime but its mostly; "red on red"(a LE term for bad guys against other bad guys). I do not feel Judge Nelson has a lot of political heat for any civil rights issues or anti-gun(gun control) activists. She seems fair for the most part. I do take away that she gives defense atty; West no quarter for his whining & complaints. I'll close with saying that from the start(02/2012), the state atty; Norm Wolfinger did not want to charge GZ. He's an elected official too. A legal precedent was set, I feel, by a 2005 incident where 2 Sanford Florida security officers(armed & on post) shot at & killed a black male that was driving a vehicle at them. There was a huge media & civil rights out-cry after the incident. The State Atty's Office caved into the pressure, then charged the G officers. One security guard had all his criminal charges cut, the other guard went to court & was cleared. Civil rights activists have a right to protest but the public must understand all the factors that go into a prosecution or criminal investigation. A DA or State Atty isn't going to waste time & $$$ on a case that can't win. |
July 11, 2013, 04:23 PM | #285 | |
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July 11, 2013, 05:07 PM | #286 | |
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I believe that's correct. Frank? Spats? |
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July 11, 2013, 05:18 PM | #287 |
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(Prodigious) gut reaction: AB is correct. If the conviction is overturned, it becomes "not a conviction."
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July 11, 2013, 06:33 PM | #288 | |
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However, once a person is in the federal database as a convicted felon, his 4473 application will be kicked back every time, even if he checks all the right boxes. Isn't it virtually impossible to get your name cleared out of there?
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July 11, 2013, 07:03 PM | #289 | |
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Added: As Frank Ettin mentioned, many judges will ask a defendant personally if he or she wants to testify. Some portions of the trial are solely in the hands of the defendant's attorney. The right to testify is a right that is personal to the defendant. There have been more than a few defendants who were convicted and then later claimed they didn't know they could testify or their attorney told them they could not testify. The judge was cutting this claim off. Last edited by KyJim; July 11, 2013 at 07:08 PM. |
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July 11, 2013, 07:25 PM | #290 | |
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July 11, 2013, 07:53 PM | #291 |
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I don't see any way this ends without GZ doing time.
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July 11, 2013, 08:13 PM | #292 |
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Surety? I can - I've said before that the jury can go on the metastory on the emotional persuasion path.
That's independent of the evidence. The killing of a teenager might be enough for such. Surety here comes from one's own decision as compared to understanding the processes involved.
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July 11, 2013, 08:15 PM | #293 | ||
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July 11, 2013, 08:20 PM | #294 | ||
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SAF, ACLDN, IDPA, handgunlaw.us My AmazonSmile benefits SAF I'd rather be carried by 6 than caged by 12. 2020: It's pronounced twenty twenty. |
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July 11, 2013, 08:20 PM | #295 | |||
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On the other hand, sometimes the prosecutor will decide to go forward with another trial. In that case, the defendant remains under indictment or information, and the 4473 also asks (11.b):
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July 11, 2013, 08:26 PM | #296 |
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We were all sure OJ would get time. Oops.
Casey Anthony was guilty - OOPS. I think they have reasonable doubt but you never know.
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July 11, 2013, 08:31 PM | #297 |
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Manslaughter....
I highly doubt at this point the female jury would put a MANSLAUGHTER beef on GZ.
Manslaughter would mean Zimmerman killed Martin by accident or thru neglect. The GZ legal team, from the very start has pushed a SELF DEFENSE plan on anyone who would listen. GZ told Sandford LE & the media he killed Martin. His story or statements never wavered from that fact & he explained how he shot Martin once with a single 9x19mm round. If he were depraved or had a racist bias, wouldn't he shoot Martin 4/5/6 times? GZ had the weapon & the ammunition. GZ also purchased the firearm based on the suggestion of a sworn federal LE officer(a FAM, Osterman who said he was "best friends" with GZ). That tidbit may carry some weight with the jury. CF |
July 11, 2013, 08:53 PM | #298 |
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If anyone thinks I'm going to actually read through over 260+ responses, you're dreaming. So at the risk of my points having been already addressed before this, here goes.
1. If Mr. Martin had only good intentions in that neighborhood, and felt that he was being stalked by Mr. Zimmerman, why didn't Martin call the police? He had a cell phone. Normal, law-abiding people call the cops when they need help, they don't turn on their stalker, take the law into their own hands, and instigate a physical confrontation. Had Martin called 911, it is a certainty that the police would have called Zimmerman back and under those circumstances, we would have had a different result. Martin's failure to call the police means to me that he had something going on that he didn't want them to discover upon their arrival. 2. The time line works in Mr. Zimmerman's favor. Since a bullet to the heart tends to disable the recipient, Zimmerman's wounds - broken nose, etc., had to have been inflicted before Martin was shot and killed. That means Martin struck first. 3. When you call the police, you have no idea when they will actually arrive on the scene. There might be an officer a block and a minute away from you, or there might not be an officer available for a half hour. Some nights are busier than others. Some much less busy. The very last thing anybody contemplating a 2nd degree murder would do is call the police right before he attempts it. He might hear sirens and see lights even as he hangs up the phone. Never a good thing when contemplating a crime. Zimmerman knew he had been told to stay in his vehicle. He knew he was told the PD needed no further input from him. He knew the Neighborhood Watch rules and regulations. Knowing what he knew, it makes no sense whatsoever that he would have shot Martin unless he felt he absolutely had to. Knowing that he already exceeded his parameters by leaving his vehicle, and might already be in trouble with the PD and the HOA, he would have had to be insane to exceed them further by murdering Martin. Zimmerman is not insane. Somewhat noncompliant, but far from crazy. Regardless of how he got himself into that fracas with Martin, who also made his own share of bad decisions that night, there they were, perhaps equally where neither one should have been, and Zimmerman, injured, frightened out of his mind, in great pain, and in understandable fear of further injury, did what anyone with the option Zimmerman had at his disposable-specifically-use his weapon to defend himself. 4. Most events like this are inevitably found to be a "comedy of errors" - the result of bad calls and bad decisions all around. That fact alone mitigates to reasonable doubt. |
July 11, 2013, 09:07 PM | #299 |
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"Dr Bernie"....
I, for one, lost a great deal of respect for the special State Atty's prosecutor; Bernie Del La Rosa or whatever the guys name is.
His coy reference to Dr Martin Luther King's well known I Have A Dream speech was tacky & disrespectful to the memory of Dr King. I also didn't care for his yelling & constant profanity. A ABC TV reporter noted that one female juror looked uninterested & annoyed by Del La Rosa's remarks & another avoided any direct eye contact with him during his closing statement. Id be professional but it would be hard to not display any contempt for Bernie Del La Rosa if I sat on the GZ jury. The state's "hail Mary" plays & bogus "concern" for Martin and his family just work against them. |
July 11, 2013, 09:32 PM | #300 | |||
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