In the Beginning_ .308 M14

TGS · November 19, 2000, 04:06 PM

Hope to shoot a bunch and would appreciate some suggestions on powder for 168 hpbt match. does anyone have a favorite primer to go along with the powder?
Thanks tom

Steve Smith · November 19, 2000, 11:24 PM

I have just begun to reload for my M1A as well. After reading several posts from M1A shooters here and at http://www.gunandknife.com/cgi-bin/b.../m1aconfig.pl? I decided to use IMR 4895 (actually the military equiv). Burn rate is apparently very improtant, so you don't bend your op rod. From all the posts, 4895 is an accurate and op rod friendly powder.

Cheapo · November 20, 2000, 12:32 AM

UHH, That short stubby op rod on the M1A/M14 is rather hard to bend. That's an M1 problem. What you're avoiding with max loads and slow powders and heavy bullets in your rifles is excessive cycle speed--battering the back of the receiver by the bolt.

I like W-W 748.

Dave P · November 20, 2000, 11:00 AM

TGS: they say that a hard primer is better than a soft one, so the firing pin does not dent/fire the primer when the bolt closes. I forget which primers to avoid. I use CCI primers.

Powders that work well: H4895, IMR4895 surplus, AA2520.

Only buy in bulk, or when you find a >25%-off sale.

Steve Smith · November 20, 2000, 12:24 PM

BTW, I have just made a purchase of Mil surplus 4895 from http://www.hi-techammo.com They sell it for $64 per 8 lb keg. (buy 4 kegs at once and they pay the haz-mat)

Alan B · November 20, 2000, 01:27 PM

From my reading most books ont the subject of realoading For M1/M1A type rifles the powder burning rates should be between IMR3030 to IMR 4320 inclusive anything faster or slower could cause problems.

TGS · November 21, 2000, 08:14 PM

Well there seems to be agreement about the powder! I appreciate the info for sure.
Whats the story on lake city brass. Ive read that it really much stronger than most but quite hard to find. There seems to be more available than I would have thought. Is there a such thing as good Lake city and not so good, discounting the times fired and on that subject what can be the expected number of firings one might expect?
Which leads me to the next question. Using 168gr hpbt about how many grains is a good starting weight?
Ive also been doing some experimenting on O.A.L. with my .220 swift and have been able to make very considereable improvement in accuracy. (interesting variations in s.d. and velocity as I adjusted the length by a little a .010 with a total reduction to .040 in .010 increments. Im wondering, taking into consideration there is a restriction because of the mag if anyone has tried to improve their loads by adjusting the o.a.l. If it works in a bolt gun, or in the case of my Swift a #1 Ruger, what might be the results in a gas gun?
32 lbs of powder...sounds good to me! Ill give it a try. Should have seen the look on my wife face.
Tom

DAVID NANCARROW · November 22, 2000, 11:21 AM

Try CCI No.34 primers-they are supposedly made with a bit thicker cup and are more resistant to slam fires. Bought a few thousand of them back during the "primer scares" in the early 90's. They work very well in my loads, both ball and stick powder. Reloader 15, IMR3031, IMR4064, and BLC-2 work well for me.

El Rojo · November 22, 2000, 09:41 PM

I have used both IMR 4894 and IMR 4064 with good results. I have used CAVIM brass, Remington brass, and Federal all with good results. I was really suprised with the CAVIM. I reloaded a bunch of Winchester 147gr FMJ/BT in that CAVIM brass with CCI regular rifle primers and those were some really accurate loads. I have heard Winchester 748 is a good powder and will run through my Dillon a lot better, so I plan on using that in the future.

TGS · November 23, 2000, 06:00 PM

appreciate the info. Steve the http://www.gunandknife.com site is real good. thanks.
Really disappointed in the winchester brass ive bought. Really looks like factory reject to me. .220 swift, 25-06, and 30-06 all three bags of 100 when I check it on v-block and indicator ran out body to throat in excess of .010. When I checked my old Norma .220 brass it ran within .001-.002.
Im anxious to see how some of the brass ya'll suggested checks out.Seems to me unless the factory dies are just wore out it should run very closr to zero. Why this winchester brass is looking so eccentric puzzles me. Has anyone had any bad experiences with it?
Tom

Peter M. Eick · November 24, 2000, 02:24 PM

Keep in mind if you are using the c-34 primer for the M1A, it is a Magnum "equivolent" primer, and you need to back down your starting loads a few grains. I shoot federal gold metal brass, 38.5 grns of IMR-4895 with c-34 primers and Seirra 168 BTHP bullets loaded to 2.810. Now, if you look at the Seirra book, I am long loading the bullet, different brass, different primer, and a pretty low charge weight. But out of my SuperMatch and NationalMatch's, the brass lopes out about 5 to 6 feet forward and a foot to the right in a nice little pile. Accuracy is very good, better then I am.

I do recommend that you run a c-34 primer (the cup is thicker and harder, take a dead one and crush it in some pliers and compare to other cups) but keep in mind it is a Magnum primer.

TGS · November 26, 2000, 08:06 PM

thought I'd get a chance this holiday to load a little but the best laid plans...
Still havent been able to get http://www.hi-techammo to open but Ill keep trying. appreciate the good info.
I'll work with #34 primer heeding your advice as you mentioned.
Thanks
Tom

MIKE14 · November 27, 2000, 12:00 AM

The best load I've used to date is 41.5grs IMR4895 below a Sierra 168gr HPBT match king in a remington case with a winchester LR primer MAKE SURE IT IS SEATED DEEP AS POSSIBLE
I tried Varget and all I got was extraction problems. I have ordered a set of RCBS .308 small base dies they say that they are designed for use in semi auto rifles. They size the cases slightly smaller than standard dies to ease in extraction. When mine arrive I'll post and let you know how well they work.

TGS · November 27, 2000, 09:13 PM

Mike
Ive held off ordering dies, not sure why, but when do you expect yours. Do you have the order number. Sounds like something I'd like to try
Tom

MIKE14 · November 28, 2000, 07:51 PM

TGS: Got my dies today. Have not had time to actualy load anything with them yet. I was messing around with them and resized a few cases with them I found that the RCBS small base set sizes the case about .025 smaller than my lee die.
I think this will help my extraction problem with the Varget powder. I ordered mine from Midway USA the item # is 681255 The description is RCBS Small Base 2-Die Set 308 Winchester. The price was $28.99 delivered. I hope this helps.

November 20, 2000, 11:00 AM	#4
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	In the Beginning_ .308 M14 TGS: they say that a hard primer is better than a soft one, so the firing pin does not dent/fire the primer when the bolt closes. I forget which primers to avoid. I use CCI primers. Powders that work well: H4895, IMR4895 surplus, AA2520. Only buy in bulk, or when you find a >25%-off sale.

November 21, 2000, 08:14 PM	#7
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	Lake city Brass Well there seems to be agreement about the powder! I appreciate the info for sure. Whats the story on lake city brass. Ive read that it really much stronger than most but quite hard to find. There seems to be more available than I would have thought. Is there a such thing as good Lake city and not so good, discounting the times fired and on that subject what can be the expected number of firings one might expect? Which leads me to the next question. Using 168gr hpbt about how many grains is a good starting weight? Ive also been doing some experimenting on O.A.L. with my .220 swift and have been able to make very considereable improvement in accuracy. (interesting variations in s.d. and velocity as I adjusted the length by a little a .010 with a total reduction to .040 in .010 increments. Im wondering, taking into consideration there is a restriction because of the mag if anyone has tried to improve their loads by adjusting the o.a.l. If it works in a bolt gun, or in the case of my Swift a #1 Ruger, what might be the results in a gas gun? 32 lbs of powder...sounds good to me! Ill give it a try. Should have seen the look on my wife face. Tom

November 22, 2000, 09:41 PM	#9
El Rojo Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2000 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 2,057	4895 or 4064 I have used both IMR 4894 and IMR 4064 with good results. I have used CAVIM brass, Remington brass, and Federal all with good results. I was really suprised with the CAVIM. I reloaded a bunch of Winchester 147gr FMJ/BT in that CAVIM brass with CCI regular rifle primers and those were some really accurate loads. I have heard Winchester 748 is a good powder and will run through my Dillon a lot better, so I plan on using that in the future.

November 24, 2000, 02:24 PM	#11
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	Keep in mind if you are using the c-34 primer for the M1A, it is a Magnum "equivolent" primer, and you need to back down your starting loads a few grains. I shoot federal gold metal brass, 38.5 grns of IMR-4895 with c-34 primers and Seirra 168 BTHP bullets loaded to 2.810. Now, if you look at the Seirra book, I am long loading the bullet, different brass, different primer, and a pretty low charge weight. But out of my SuperMatch and NationalMatch's, the brass lopes out about 5 to 6 feet forward and a foot to the right in a nice little pile. Accuracy is very good, better then I am. I do recommend that you run a c-34 primer (the cup is thicker and harder, take a dead one and crush it in some pliers and compare to other cups) but keep in mind it is a Magnum primer. __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

November 27, 2000, 12:00 AM	#13
MIKE14 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2000 Posts: 147	The best load I've used to date is 41.5grs IMR4895 below a Sierra 168gr HPBT match king in a remington case with a winchester LR primer MAKE SURE IT IS SEATED DEEP AS POSSIBLE I tried Varget and all I got was extraction problems. I have ordered a set of RCBS .308 small base dies they say that they are designed for use in semi auto rifles. They size the cases slightly smaller than standard dies to ease in extraction. When mine arrive I'll post and let you know how well they work. __________________ M-14 OUT

November 19, 2000, 04:06 PM	#1
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	Hope to shoot a bunch and would appreciate some suggestions on powder for 168 hpbt match. does anyone have a favorite primer to go along with the powder? Thanks tom

November 19, 2000, 11:24 PM	#2
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	I have just begun to reload for my M1A as well. After reading several posts from M1A shooters here and at http://www.gunandknife.com/cgi-bin/b.../m1aconfig.pl? I decided to use IMR 4895 (actually the military equiv). Burn rate is apparently very improtant, so you don't bend your op rod. From all the posts, 4895 is an accurate and op rod friendly powder.

November 20, 2000, 12:32 AM	#3
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	UHH, That short stubby op rod on the M1A/M14 is rather hard to bend. That's an M1 problem. What you're avoiding with max loads and slow powders and heavy bullets in your rifles is excessive cycle speed--battering the back of the receiver by the bolt. I like W-W 748.

November 20, 2000, 12:24 PM	#5
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	BTW, I have just made a purchase of Mil surplus 4895 from http://www.hi-techammo.com They sell it for $64 per 8 lb keg. (buy 4 kegs at once and they pay the haz-mat)

November 20, 2000, 01:27 PM	#6
Alan B Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 1999 Posts: 335	From my reading most books ont the subject of realoading For M1/M1A type rifles the powder burning rates should be between IMR3030 to IMR 4320 inclusive anything faster or slower could cause problems.

November 22, 2000, 11:21 AM	#8
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	Try CCI No.34 primers-they are supposedly made with a bit thicker cup and are more resistant to slam fires. Bought a few thousand of them back during the "primer scares" in the early 90's. They work very well in my loads, both ball and stick powder. Reloader 15, IMR3031, IMR4064, and BLC-2 work well for me.

November 23, 2000, 06:00 PM	#10
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	appreciate the info. Steve the http://www.gunandknife.com site is real good. thanks. Really disappointed in the winchester brass ive bought. Really looks like factory reject to me. .220 swift, 25-06, and 30-06 all three bags of 100 when I check it on v-block and indicator ran out body to throat in excess of .010. When I checked my old Norma .220 brass it ran within .001-.002. Im anxious to see how some of the brass ya'll suggested checks out.Seems to me unless the factory dies are just wore out it should run very closr to zero. Why this winchester brass is looking so eccentric puzzles me. Has anyone had any bad experiences with it? Tom

November 26, 2000, 08:06 PM	#12
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	thought I'd get a chance this holiday to load a little but the best laid plans... Still havent been able to get http://www.hi-techammo to open but Ill keep trying. appreciate the good info. I'll work with #34 primer heeding your advice as you mentioned. Thanks Tom

November 27, 2000, 09:13 PM	#14
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	Small Base Dies Mike Ive held off ordering dies, not sure why, but when do you expect yours. Do you have the order number. Sounds like something I'd like to try Tom

November 28, 2000, 07:51 PM	#15
MIKE14 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2000 Posts: 147	TGS: Got my dies today. Have not had time to actualy load anything with them yet. I was messing around with them and resized a few cases with them I found that the RCBS small base set sizes the case about .025 smaller than my lee die. I think this will help my extraction problem with the Varget powder. I ordered mine from Midway USA the item # is 681255 The description is RCBS Small Base 2-Die Set 308 Winchester. The price was $28.99 delivered. I hope this helps. __________________ M-14 OUT