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Old April 15, 2020, 09:07 PM   #51
reynolds357
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Originally Posted by SHR970 View Post
I've got a couple or three coworkers who found the need to buy but because of the lockdown found out they can't. I told them how and where before everything came to a halt but they waited too long. Now they are wanting but the other hand is full.
Why cant they buy? Firearms are essential business.
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Old April 16, 2020, 06:18 AM   #52
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Firearms are essential business
Each state has made their own decision concerning letting gun shops stay open or not.
NYS has deemed they are not essential, and almost all of ours are closed
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Old April 16, 2020, 07:43 AM   #53
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In Indy big chain closed to all but members......that way they dont have to refund
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Old April 16, 2020, 02:25 PM   #54
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Each state has made their own decision concerning letting gun shops stay open or not.
Sort of. Many did, but not all have even go so far as to imposing stay at home orders, much less shutting down any businesses. For the ones deeming gun businesses as non-essential, I think nearly all have fallen that have been challenged legally. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...-them-n1177706

New York seems to be an exception. I wish y'all the best of luck.
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Old April 16, 2020, 03:09 PM   #55
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New York seems to be an exception. I wish y'all the best of luck.
Add Massachusetts to the list of gun stores being ordered closed. Sucks. There is one store in Western MA that has told our Governor and AG to pound sand and has stayed open. Nothing really they can do to him as the town and local LEs seem to be backing him as well.
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Old April 16, 2020, 04:09 PM   #56
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In my area the issue is two fold: most stores around here won't let people in to take the required test for the Firearms Safety Certificate due to "Social Distancing" and then they are busy clearing the backlog for all guns / ammo on order / DROS due to all of the paperwork involved. The big chain here only allows two people in the store at a time and only the person(s) who have business.....no friends / spouces / kids. They can only cycle 3-4 people per hour through the stores.

So if you had a gun on DROS, when it clears they call you to set an appointment to do all of the rest of Kommiefornia's paperwork so you can pick up your gun. In the mean time, no new guns are being sold, no person to person transfers, & no arranging a FFL transfer.
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Old April 16, 2020, 07:06 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by mikejonestkd View Post
Each state has made their own decision concerning letting gun shops stay open or not.
NYS has deemed they are not essential, and almost all of ours are closed
The Federal Govt says gun stores are essential. I posted the link, but that post disappeared.
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Old April 16, 2020, 07:43 PM   #58
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No issues in the Virginia mountains.
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Old April 16, 2020, 08:03 PM   #59
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The Federal Govt says gun stores are essential
The announcement was guidance, not an order.

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/dhs...#axzz6JpQIQv6M

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/op...-2020/download
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Old April 16, 2020, 08:34 PM   #60
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Trump included them in his order.
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Old April 16, 2020, 09:39 PM   #61
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The statement by the Trump administration was guidance, not an order

https://time.com/5812778/trump-admin...l-coronavirus/
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Old April 17, 2020, 07:09 AM   #62
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The statement by the Trump administration was guidance, not an order

https://time.com/5812778/trump-admin...l-coronavirus/
The list has always been considered definitive.
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Old April 17, 2020, 09:05 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by reynolds357
The list has always been considered definitive.
That doesn't make it an order. Some state governors have chosen to follow the federal guidelines, other state governors have departed from them. As the heads of government in their respective states, that is their right and their duty.
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Old April 17, 2020, 09:06 AM   #64
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Quote:
The list has always been considered definitive.
Not really. Several State have ignored it and closed down gun stores. NY, MA, etc....
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Old April 18, 2020, 06:26 AM   #65
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That doesn't make it an order. Some state governors have chosen to follow the federal guidelines, other state governors have departed from them. As the heads of government in their respective states, that is their right and their duty.
Its not their right. Their duty is to uphold The Constitution of The United States. They are defying federal govt illegally. Crisis does not suspend The Constitution. These governors are technically interfering with interstate commerce by stopping these pawn shops
from selling guns . Preserving National security and economic viability is why the DHs list exists. The list is what the Federal govt deems necessary and essential for its function. State laws are subordinate to the LAWS that created DHS and gave it the authority to maintain the list of essential businesses and infrastructure.
I learned about this from my trade association lawyers because we are remaining open despite our state attempting to shut down some of the members of our trade association. Interstate commerce trumps state governors. The high court rulings on Fed Vs states have been consistent for the last 150 years. The governors are making an illegal and dangerous power grab. An individual state can not decide to throw a wrench in the war machine of the nation. When these cases finally make it to appeals court level in Federal court, this will be confirmed and damages will be awarded.

Last edited by reynolds357; April 18, 2020 at 06:41 AM.
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Old April 18, 2020, 09:04 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by reynolds357
Its not their right. Their duty is to uphold The Constitution of The United States. They are defying federal govt illegally. Crisis does not suspend The Constitution. These governors are technically interfering with interstate commerce by stopping these pawn shops from selling guns .
How are they "defying the federal government"? As has been pointed out several times, the CDC and other federal guidelines are guidelines, they are not laws nor executive orders.

As to whether some governors' orders are unconstitutional ... it is my understanding that lawsuits have been filed in some states, and that's the established procedure for determining if/when something the government does is or isn't constitutional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reynolds357
Their duty is to uphold The Constitution of The United States.
No, the duty of a state governor goes beyond upholding the federal Constitution. To determine the extent of any particular governor's duties, you need to read that state's constitution.
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Old April 18, 2020, 01:10 PM   #67
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How are they "defying the federal government"? As has been pointed out several times, the CDC and other federal guidelines are guidelines, they are not laws nor executive orders.

As to whether some governors' orders are unconstitutional ... it is my understanding that lawsuits have been filed in some states, and that's the established procedure for determining if/when something the government does is or isn't constitutional.


No, the duty of a state governor goes beyond upholding the federal Constitution. To determine the extent of any particular governor's duties, you need to read that state's constitution.
The State Constitution is trumped by the COTUS. The Constitutions of many States guaranteed the right to own slaves. Federal order, followed by COTUS Amendment overrode those State Constitutions.
A State can not simply decide to deny rights given by the COTUS. COTUS rights are guaranteed to All citizens of all states.
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Old April 18, 2020, 01:33 PM   #68
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yes, the pawn shops will buy low, and sell high. we may still be able to get some items at very good prices, but i think the usual shopping around may be in order, if there are more than one pawn shops in your area. but then too, the gun stores themselves, may also see a flood or returned items as well.

and if you are a regular customer of a particular gun shop or two, or three, i think better deals can be had, as you are a known person, rather than just someone off the street.
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Old April 18, 2020, 04:04 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by reynolds357
The State Constitution is trumped by the COTUS. The Constitutions of many States guaranteed the right to own slaves. Federal order, followed by COTUS Amendment overrode those State Constitutions.
A State can not simply decide to deny rights given by the COTUS. COTUS rights are guaranteed to All citizens of all states.
The 2nd Amendment supposedly guarantees us a right to keep and bear arms, yet the Supreme Court has not ruled that the practice of most states to require a permit or license to carry a handgun is unconstitutional.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/...ution-to-the-w

Quote:
Most observers agree that the president has at least some unilateral ability to take action necessary to respond to crisis, even though the Constitution is silent on the matter. However, there is disagreement as to the scope of such power. Advocates for broad presidential power argue that the president has “plenary” or absolute power when it comes to defending the nation—that decisions in this context are for the president alone to make.

Others conclude that presidents can initially act independently when they believe it is necessary to defend the nation; however, their actions must be retroactively approved by Congress and are subject to review by the courts.
And that's the problem. It is accepted that the President has some power to act in emergencies, but the extent of his powers has not been defined as yet. Stay tuned.
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Old April 18, 2020, 04:15 PM   #70
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"KEEP AND BEAR ARMS?" Tell that to the people in New Orleans after Katrina!
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Old April 19, 2020, 07:26 AM   #71
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"KEEP AND BEAR ARMS?" Tell that to the people in New Orleans after Katrina!
42 U.S. Code § 5207. Firearms policies came about as pretty much a direct result of what happened in New Orleans.
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Old April 19, 2020, 07:37 AM   #72
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US CODE 5207?????????? Keep thinking that. ANY law that is passed CAN AND will be ignored.
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Old April 19, 2020, 10:11 AM   #73
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Re the above. Regardless whether or not these people panic buying first time guns will become dyed in the wool 2A proponents.

I'm just glad that there are newly awakened people who, at long last, realize gun ownership is essential. They realize guns are tools and not inherently evil, and that nobody is going to protect them but themselves.

I saw a cartoon of a 30 something woman in a gun store with a shoulder bag full of toilet paper. She was exclaiming, "Why can't I have my gun now?! Why do I have to wait ten days?!"

The dealer said, "Do you believe in gun control?"

The lady said, "Well, yes, of course. But what does this have to do with gun control?"

The dealer said, "Lady, this is gun control."
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Old April 22, 2020, 03:09 AM   #74
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Do most of you expect the "new gun owner" anxiety so cool off as they read (if literate) or hear about several states' governors planning to slowly allow most businesses to reopen?

As long as there are no solid signs weeks later of a Chinese Virus relapse/return, this could gradually deflate the 'anxiety bubble'?

My planning began in 2008 (lots of ammo for This type of situation), but am curious for the sake of Other people---
with dramatically reduced incomes who can't afford an extra gun for a spouse, and no cash for a decent ammo reserve.

Armslist can be a very good alternative. Many states still require No background check.
Tons of handguns and rifles are available in any city and so many towns-some seem to be at fairly 'normal' pre-virus prices.

If people don't have the correct common sense to use Armslist, they don't have enough common sense to own, or especially to carry a gun.
With a pawnshop, you will very seldom even see the previous owner.

Last edited by Ignition Override; April 23, 2020 at 01:01 AM.
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