Depriming - Page 2

RC20 · March 21, 2018, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Even simpler, if the case has one hole in the center of the primer pocket, its Boxer primed. More than one hole (and offset from the center) its Berdan primed, and NOT reloadable with common US components and methods.

Well it is if you get the primer out (Boxer) but if it doesn't come out then you need to drill or dissect it and or see if its staked in.

jamaica · March 21, 2018, 10:45 AM

" Beware of the "Lee Haters" on forums as you'll get skewed opinions of the manufacturer."

So now I am a quote: "Lee Haters" .

So I go online looking for a set of 30-30 dies (2 die set) and come up with Lee for $22.99, RCBS for $38.99, and Hornady for $37.99.

From this all I can say is Lee is Cheap! There has to be a reason their price is way below the competition. I have always felt the reason is quality. Do as you will......

**Unclenick** · March 21, 2018, 11:03 AM

Jamaica,

Lee set affordability as a company objective. They have accomplished this partly by putting little money into finish and partly by avoiding making tools beefier than is strictly required and partly by design ingenuity. So you find a lot of their stuff is rough, but functionally good. I always lap in my Lee Collet Necksizing dies for smoother operation, for example. But as this video shows, the design concept is excellent and produces measurably better results than more expensive dies do, even without my lapping step. Lee rifle sizing dies, in particular, are, as far as I know, the only brand finished by honing, so they tend to be consistently more perfectly round across their diameters than more expensive brands.

So, yes, Lee uses plastic and aluminum where others use steel and cast iron, but only where it works. And yes, I have choices I prefer to Lee in some specialty dies, but broadly speaking they are a bargain for functionality.

jamaica · March 21, 2018, 11:34 AM

I load for a variety of both rifle and pistol cartridges. In looking through my die sets, I have Herter's, RCBS, Lee, ABOX, C&H. They all work and get the job done.

mikld · March 22, 2018, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamaica

" Beware of the "Lee Haters" on forums as you'll get skewed opinions of the manufacturer."

So now I am a quote: "Lee Haters" .

So I go online looking for a set of 30-30 dies (2 die set) and come up with Lee for $22.99, RCBS for $38.99, and Hornady for $37.99.

From this all I can say is Lee is Cheap! There has to be a reason their price is way below the competition. I have always felt the reason is quality. Do as you will......

Does your dislike for Lee products rely only on cost? Do you have any experience with Lee tools?

I'm a lifelong machinist/mechanic and have made my living with mostly hand tools for 50+ years. I have seen what I call "tool snobs" that only buy, and often brag about, their tools are the same their favorite TV motorcycle builder uses, or what their favorite NASCAR pit crew uses, or solely by price ("If it cost the most, it's gotta be the best, right?"). Most will "talk up" their choice and bad mouth every other manufacturer ("If it ain't SnapOn [or MAC, Williams, etc.] it's junk"). One of the best hand tool manufacturers used to be Craftsman, which wasn't the finest finish but did their job quite well and had a no questions asked, lifetime warranty, reasonably priced but the Tool Snobs would never say they used them. I don't know the current quality as I haven't purchased any in many years. I've seen the same with reloading tools/equipment (If it ain't RCBS [or Wilson, Redding, etc.] it's junk!). Most "Lee Haters" fit this description and only the tools they chose to use are really worth anything and the rest is junk, and they go out of their way to post their opinions...

Jes an old guy's opinion/rant after reloading for 30+ years using all reloding tool manufacturer's products and get tired of hearing how bad a specific manufacturer's tools are...

Dufus · March 22, 2018, 01:17 PM

I have broken a few depriming pins in my days of reloading.

The first time I encountered Berdan (aka Bordon according to RC) I broke a pin.

I was a kid and found that Western Auto offered 100 rounds of 8x57 ammo for $5.00. I got a box 'cause I wanted the brass. Come to find out they were Greek made ammo and all were Berdan primed. I was pissed to say the least since I "wasted" by yard money on them. I mowed neighbor's yards for money back then.

That was back in the mid 60s.

When I started hand loading, I used the Lee Loader (now called the Lee classic), and loaded shotgun, rifle and one handgun caliber with them. This was before Lee made dies. I still have all of them. Some are a little rusty, but still functional.

Since Lee didn't make dies back then, I bought my first press (RCBS Jr) with dies in the green box. They worked and I never bought anything else.

Many years later a friends neighbor passed away. He helped the neighbor's wife liquidate all the shooting related stuff and I bought some. In the mix was Lee dies for hand gun calibers. The one I got was a carbide for 357 Mag.

I have used it a lot and it has worked for me for close to 30 years.

That is the only Lee die set that I have. Why? Prolly because the dies that I have bought since then were some odd ball calibers.

If it were not for Lee, I might not have started reloading as early as I did.
The Lee loaders were only $10.00 each back then, but they worked.

Some of the Lee specialty tools are great, such as the collet dies and so on.

gwpercle · March 22, 2018, 03:14 PM

This was how I learned about Berdan primers too ! In 1967 it seems
every case I had for the WWII surplus Swiss K11 7.5 Schmidt Rubin short rifle had those pesky twin holes . I bought a dozen new pins and a small flashlight ...I look for them two tiny holes now.
The owner of the gun shop smiled as I told my story....he knew what was up and kindly explained it to me. No reloading sites back then.
Gary

**44 AMP** · March 23, 2018, 04:49 PM

One of the guys who used to hang out at our gunshop was a notorious brass rat. Not the nice kind that goes shooting with you, but the kind that waits until you leave then screams in and snags anything useful you might have left.
(he wasn't well liked, for other reasons, as well...)

A couple of my friends discussed going shooting, where he could overhear it. They went out to a local gravel pit, and shot up about 500rnds of Berdan .30-06 (mostly through Garands) then finished off with a box of handloads, put up in match cases, which were about at the end of their useful life (and so left behind).

Brass rat zooms in, spots a match case, and gloms the whole lot.

A couple days later, he's in the shop, bitching about needing to buy more decapping pins, because of how many he's broken on some "match" .30-06 cases....

I don't think anyone actually giggled, out loud....

epags · March 27, 2018, 03:39 PM

You got several folks saying 'toss' the bad brass. Depending on how much you have, you can sell it to scrap yards for about $1 per pound. A bunch of us old timers would collect the brass left from the 'spray and pray' shooters who were too lazy to pickup after them selves and we would get about $100 every few months that paid for targets, etc. FWIW: I started with Lee and finally moved to Dillon's 550 (have two). Go to https://www.dillonprecision.com and get their free monthly advert.

Reloadron · March 27, 2018, 07:07 PM

Taken from the Wikipedia:

Quote:

Berdan primers are named after their American inventor, Hiram Berdan of New York who invented his first variation of the Berdan primer and patented it on March 20, 1866,...
Meanwhile, Colonel Edward Mounier Boxer, of the Royal Arsenal, Woolwich, England was working on a primer cap design for cartridges, patenting it in England on October 13, 1866, and subsequently received a U.S. patent for his design on June 29, 1869,...

Somewhere in there would be some irony.

The primer used in Europe widely was invented in NYC and the primer used widely in the US and Canada was invented in England.

Now to the thread starter. Removing primers in one thing and it allows for error. Putting new primers in cases is not as forgiving as removing them. I am sure a Google could bring up dozens of ugly images from when things go wrong. That said just be careful when priming cases, A little resistance as a primer seats is normal and work slow and easy. Read up on the subject before seating primers.

Ron

March 21, 2018, 10:45 AM	#27
jamaica Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2006 Location: Northern Utah Posts: 705	" Beware of the "Lee Haters" on forums as you'll get skewed opinions of the manufacturer." So now I am a quote: "Lee Haters" . So I go online looking for a set of 30-30 dies (2 die set) and come up with Lee for $22.99, RCBS for $38.99, and Hornady for $37.99. From this all I can say is Lee is Cheap! There has to be a reason their price is way below the competition. I have always felt the reason is quality. Do as you will...... __________________ Take a fine bead!

March 21, 2018, 11:03 AM	#28
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Jamaica, Lee set affordability as a company objective. They have accomplished this partly by putting little money into finish and partly by avoiding making tools beefier than is strictly required and partly by design ingenuity. So you find a lot of their stuff is rough, but functionally good. I always lap in my Lee Collet Necksizing dies for smoother operation, for example. But as this video shows, the design concept is excellent and produces measurably better results than more expensive dies do, even without my lapping step. Lee rifle sizing dies, in particular, are, as far as I know, the only brand finished by honing, so they tend to be consistently more perfectly round across their diameters than more expensive brands. So, yes, Lee uses plastic and aluminum where others use steel and cast iron, but only where it works. And yes, I have choices I prefer to Lee in some specialty dies, but broadly speaking they are a bargain for functionality. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 21, 2018, 11:34 AM	#29
jamaica Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2006 Location: Northern Utah Posts: 705	I load for a variety of both rifle and pistol cartridges. In looking through my die sets, I have Herter's, RCBS, Lee, ABOX, C&H. They all work and get the job done. __________________ Take a fine bead!

March 23, 2018, 04:49 PM	#33
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,813	One of the guys who used to hang out at our gunshop was a notorious brass rat. Not the nice kind that goes shooting with you, but the kind that waits until you leave then screams in and snags anything useful you might have left. (he wasn't well liked, for other reasons, as well...) A couple of my friends discussed going shooting, where he could overhear it. They went out to a local gravel pit, and shot up about 500rnds of Berdan .30-06 (mostly through Garands) then finished off with a box of handloads, put up in match cases, which were about at the end of their useful life (and so left behind). Brass rat zooms in, spots a match case, and gloms the whole lot. A couple days later, he's in the shop, bitching about needing to buy more decapping pins, because of how many he's broken on some "match" .30-06 cases.... I don't think anyone actually giggled, out loud.... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

March 22, 2018, 01:17 PM	#31
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	I have broken a few depriming pins in my days of reloading. The first time I encountered Berdan (aka Bordon according to RC) I broke a pin. I was a kid and found that Western Auto offered 100 rounds of 8x57 ammo for $5.00. I got a box 'cause I wanted the brass. Come to find out they were Greek made ammo and all were Berdan primed. I was pissed to say the least since I "wasted" by yard money on them. I mowed neighbor's yards for money back then. That was back in the mid 60s. When I started hand loading, I used the Lee Loader (now called the Lee classic), and loaded shotgun, rifle and one handgun caliber with them. This was before Lee made dies. I still have all of them. Some are a little rusty, but still functional. Since Lee didn't make dies back then, I bought my first press (RCBS Jr) with dies in the green box. They worked and I never bought anything else. Many years later a friends neighbor passed away. He helped the neighbor's wife liquidate all the shooting related stuff and I bought some. In the mix was Lee dies for hand gun calibers. The one I got was a carbide for 357 Mag. I have used it a lot and it has worked for me for close to 30 years. That is the only Lee die set that I have. Why? Prolly because the dies that I have bought since then were some odd ball calibers. If it were not for Lee, I might not have started reloading as early as I did. The Lee loaders were only $10.00 each back then, but they worked. Some of the Lee specialty tools are great, such as the collet dies and so on.

March 22, 2018, 03:14 PM	#32
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	This was how I learned about Berdan primers too ! In 1967 it seems every case I had for the WWII surplus Swiss K11 7.5 Schmidt Rubin short rifle had those pesky twin holes . I bought a dozen new pins and a small flashlight ...I look for them two tiny holes now. The owner of the gun shop smiled as I told my story....he knew what was up and kindly explained it to me. No reloading sites back then. Gary

March 27, 2018, 03:39 PM	#34
epags Junior Member Join Date: May 7, 2007 Location: California...ugh Posts: 4	You got several folks saying 'toss' the bad brass. Depending on how much you have, you can sell it to scrap yards for about $1 per pound. A bunch of us old timers would collect the brass left from the 'spray and pray' shooters who were too lazy to pickup after them selves and we would get about $100 every few months that paid for targets, etc. FWIW: I started with Lee and finally moved to Dillon's 550 (have two). Go to https://www.dillonprecision.com and get their free monthly advert.