RL 10x , TAC and the .223

hounddawg · March 12, 2018, 07:07 AM

I have 2 - 3 pounds of RL10x and about the same amount of TAC left over from my .204 days. I changed the barrel out to .223 and was thinking of buying some lighter bullets to use with the .223. The barrel is a 1-8 twist barrel I am thinking of trying some 50 - 55 grain bullets. Has anyone here had any luck with using either RL10X or TAC with the lighter bullets at 100 - 300 yards ?

Marco Califo · March 12, 2018, 02:57 PM

A 1:8 twist barrel was not designed for light Varmint bullets. It supports heavier bullets 55 - 77 grains. "Varmint" rifles used to generally have 1:12 or 1:14 twists. But Savage for example, now only makes 1:9 twist 223.
Having said that, I shoot several 1:9 twist Savage rifles, and I have been successful loading Barnes Varmint Grenades in 36 and 50 grains. Using AA 2200 velocities were around 4000 fps. I was able to strike steel plates with loud report 100-200 yards. I also shoot Nosler 40 grain Ballistic Tips with the same result (WC844). None of these bullets ever flew apart in a cloud of red dust, as some thought they would.

Stabilizing Long and Heavy bullets requires faster twists, and there is a Stability Calculator here: http://jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi . It answers the question of Can I Stabilize a Given Bullet? (usually applied to Long and Heavy bullets).

But if you turn that around, and ask What Will Lighter Bullets Do? Other than the supposition that too rapid spinning will cause self destruction (I have not experienced that), nor do I have any means to quantify that. So, I think you have to try it and see what happens.

I just looked up 10X and TAC data on the powder maker's online load data, and there is plenty of data for those powder and bullets 55 grn. and lighter.

RC20 · March 12, 2018, 03:13 PM

You have what the book says and then what works.

A 1-10 twist 30-06 works from 220 grains down to 125 or lower.

You figure out what you want, get the twist that is listed right for the grainage and length bullet, and if you shoot something above or below that there is no reasons not to try, it often works. Sometimes not.

std7mag · March 12, 2018, 03:48 PM

To answer your question, yes.
Load up some 55gr FMJ range fodder and go to town.
Er, the range, not in actual town..

hounddawg · March 12, 2018, 03:53 PM

I have been shooting some off the shelf Lapua 55 grain match ammo through it with decent results. In the past I have loaded a lot of 62 grain flat base bullets with TAC for my AR but with no results of great accuracy nor any expectations of such. I may do a load workup with them in this bolt gun just for grins. The RL 10X was my go to powder for 39 grain 20 caliber bullets and I burned that barrel out so it is sitting in a corner.

The reason was I made the thread was I noticed the RL 10X jug this morning and wondered what I could do with it. I have heard internet scuttlebutt about bullets exploding from being spun to. I guess I will pick up one or two boxes of the 50 - 53 grain match bullets and play around and see what happens.

edit - I built this gun to be a 300 yard gun, maybe I should have gotten a slower twist but just ordered 200 53 gr Vmax to see how they shoot

zplinker · March 12, 2018, 04:40 PM

Where you will typically get bullets 'blowing up', is when you run a thin jacketed, soft core bullet, like Hornady SX, through a fast twist barrel. As it travels and heats up, the core will melt, and the jacket loses strength.... Poof. Ever notice what looks like a vapor trail behind an SX when it is really pushed? That is molten lead flowing out the nose of the jacket. The little blue poof occurs about 50-60 yds. out, which shows the effect of the bullet heating up. Precision Shooting magazine had an excellent article on this, some years back.

hounddawg · March 12, 2018, 05:48 PM

interesting zplinker, learned something new

5whiskey · March 13, 2018, 08:21 PM

I use reloader 10x for 55 and even 62 gn projectiles in .223 (the 62 gn has limited data). With bulk hornady projectiles and a run of the mill AR I get around 1-1.5 moa accuracy out to 200 to 300. I preferred exterminator for 223, but got a smoking deal on 8lbs of 10x.

And that's my reloading mantra... If I can get it dirt cheap I'll make it work. Even if I have to scrounge for data or suffer sooty actions.

hounddawg · March 13, 2018, 08:34 PM

good to know 5whiskey, just ordered 200 of the 53 grain Vmaxes. I have about three pounds of 10X and I hate to buy other powders if I can make the ones that are paid for work . This will be out of a bolt gun with a 26 inch barrel but I already planning on a load workup on those 53's to see if I can find a nice 200 - 300 load. My 204 loved the 10X with 39 grain SMK's. I could get bugholes at 100 and 1 inch groups at 200 but it fell apart at 300

I will save the TAC for the 62 FMJ's. It meters like water and works great to make plinking ammo for the my run of the mill AR's

Being a retiree I know what you mean, I have way more time than I have money so I try and spend wisely. This can be a expensive hobby

March 12, 2018, 07:07 AM	#1
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	RL 10x , TAC and the .223 I have 2 - 3 pounds of RL10x and about the same amount of TAC left over from my .204 days. I changed the barrel out to .223 and was thinking of buying some lighter bullets to use with the .223. The barrel is a 1-8 twist barrel I am thinking of trying some 50 - 55 grain bullets. Has anyone here had any luck with using either RL10X or TAC with the lighter bullets at 100 - 300 yards ? __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

March 12, 2018, 02:57 PM	#2
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	Fast Twist is geared to heavier bullets A 1:8 twist barrel was not designed for light Varmint bullets. It supports heavier bullets 55 - 77 grains. "Varmint" rifles used to generally have 1:12 or 1:14 twists. But Savage for example, now only makes 1:9 twist 223. Having said that, I shoot several 1:9 twist Savage rifles, and I have been successful loading Barnes Varmint Grenades in 36 and 50 grains. Using AA 2200 velocities were around 4000 fps. I was able to strike steel plates with loud report 100-200 yards. I also shoot Nosler 40 grain Ballistic Tips with the same result (WC844). None of these bullets ever flew apart in a cloud of red dust, as some thought they would. Stabilizing Long and Heavy bullets requires faster twists, and there is a Stability Calculator here: http://jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi . It answers the question of *Can I Stabilize a Given Bullet?* (usually applied to Long and Heavy bullets). But if you turn that around, and ask What Will Lighter Bullets Do? Other than the supposition that too rapid spinning will cause self destruction (I have not experienced that), nor do I have any means to quantify that. So, I think you have to try it and see what happens. I just looked up 10X and TAC data on the powder maker's online load data, and there is plenty of data for those powder and bullets 55 grn. and lighter. __________________ ............ Last edited by Marco Califo; March 12, 2018 at 03:05 PM. Reason: Alliant and Western Powders Data

March 12, 2018, 03:13 PM	#3
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	You have what the book says and then what works. A 1-10 twist 30-06 works from 220 grains down to 125 or lower. You figure out what you want, get the twist that is listed right for the grainage and length bullet, and if you shoot something above or below that there is no reasons not to try, it often works. Sometimes not. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

March 12, 2018, 03:53 PM	#5
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	I have been shooting some off the shelf Lapua 55 grain match ammo through it with decent results. In the past I have loaded a lot of 62 grain flat base bullets with TAC for my AR but with no results of great accuracy nor any expectations of such. I may do a load workup with them in this bolt gun just for grins. The RL 10X was my go to powder for 39 grain 20 caliber bullets and I burned that barrel out so it is sitting in a corner. The reason was I made the thread was I noticed the RL 10X jug this morning and wondered what I could do with it. I have heard internet scuttlebutt about bullets exploding from being spun to. I guess I will pick up one or two boxes of the 50 - 53 grain match bullets and play around and see what happens. edit - I built this gun to be a 300 yard gun, maybe I should have gotten a slower twist but just ordered 200 53 gr Vmax to see how they shoot __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; March 12, 2018 at 04:15 PM.

March 12, 2018, 05:48 PM	#7
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	interesting zplinker, learned something new __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

March 12, 2018, 03:48 PM	#4
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	To answer your question, yes. Load up some 55gr FMJ range fodder and go to town. Er, the range, not in actual town..

March 12, 2018, 04:40 PM	#6
zplinker Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2011 Location: way out here Posts: 262	Where you will typically get bullets 'blowing up', is when you run a thin jacketed, soft core bullet, like Hornady SX, through a fast twist barrel. As it travels and heats up, the core will melt, and the jacket loses strength.... Poof. Ever notice what looks like a vapor trail behind an SX when it is really pushed? That is molten lead flowing out the nose of the jacket. The little blue poof occurs about 50-60 yds. out, which shows the effect of the bullet heating up. Precision Shooting magazine had an excellent article on this, some years back.

March 13, 2018, 08:21 PM	#8
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,657	I use reloader 10x for 55 and even 62 gn projectiles in .223 (the 62 gn has limited data). With bulk hornady projectiles and a run of the mill AR I get around 1-1.5 moa accuracy out to 200 to 300. I preferred exterminator for 223, but got a smoking deal on 8lbs of 10x. And that's my reloading mantra... If I can get it dirt cheap I'll make it work. Even if I have to scrounge for data or suffer sooty actions. __________________ Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946

March 13, 2018, 08:34 PM	#9
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	good to know 5whiskey, just ordered 200 of the 53 grain Vmaxes. I have about three pounds of 10X and I hate to buy other powders if I can make the ones that are paid for work . This will be out of a bolt gun with a 26 inch barrel but I already planning on a load workup on those 53's to see if I can find a nice 200 - 300 load. My 204 loved the 10X with 39 grain SMK's. I could get bugholes at 100 and 1 inch groups at 200 but it fell apart at 300 I will save the TAC for the 62 FMJ's. It meters like water and works great to make plinking ammo for the my run of the mill AR's Being a retiree I know what you mean, I have way more time than I have money so I try and spend wisely. This can be a expensive hobby __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek