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Old March 4, 2001, 09:11 AM   #26
Scott Conklin
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Actually, AnotherPundit...

That will only work at first. Yes, they will go for each one of us alone but after someones grandfather dies at their hands, and anothers brother, and a friend of a friend, it will be impossible to pursue us one at a time. It takes a certain harsh reality to get things motivated, in this day and age moreso than ever before, but once sufficient insult is given in the deaths and incarceration of loved ones there WILL be fighting "in the streets". Or more likely in the woods and mountains and plains.

Give it time, it's coming.

Oh, hey, AnotherPundit, you are the same one from Warladys and The Mental Militia, right?
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Old March 4, 2001, 10:06 AM   #27
Dennis
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AP,

Your opinion of absolute government supremacy is popular these days, but not with me.

You may find this trite and not very "modern", but many Tories had similar defeatist attitudes during the 1700s. They were wrong - as our Founding Fathers and brave ancestors proved to the good English King.

A modern military right now is no more imposing that a "modern military" was then.

- Many military personnel would defect to the side of "We the People", bringing personnel, materiel, and expertise to the side of freedom.

- Many of the civilians whom you consider impotent are former military with considerable experience and expertise.

- No matter how many military people would fight FOR government control, they would be outnumbered. Their supply lines would be vulnerable. They would be unable to trust each other.

The concept of another "American v. American" war is a horrible and frightening concept. I doubt that our government would permit the wide-spread use of military force in our country - it would be counter-productive. May fence sitters would awaken to see what our government has become. Furthermore, it is not necessary to use force to conquer us.

A scenario which is more likely already is in motion - the gradual erosion of our Rights, Liberty and Freedom by compromise, by "reasonable" encroachment, and implementing the gradual slide into government tyranny and our consequent subservience. It's working even as we argue about its existence. But we remain steadfastly ignorant, blissfully secure in our apathy that, "It can't happen here."

It has. It is. It will.
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Old March 4, 2001, 10:21 AM   #28
Different
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I'll make a point that I don't ever see discussed. Where are the American military combat units for the most part? Forward deployed overseas.
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Old March 4, 2001, 10:51 AM   #29
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"Myself I would never make it publicly known my plan or how I was going to break such laws were they enacted, because I feel its almost like walking into your friendly local ATF office and yelling "Hey you suckers, I dont like you, "
Wow, Guerilla1138, with a handle like yours, you really are a model of discretion!
If ATF, or anyone else for that matter, starts going through TFL's membership, whose handle would they feel like looking up first, Lendringser's, mine or yours?
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Old March 4, 2001, 01:14 PM   #30
Colombe
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This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. I've talked to people who refuse to join gun rights groups or sign gun rights petitions because they were afraid to be on a "list"..Helloooo? First off..if you purchased a new gun in the past decade or so, you're already listed someplace. Secondly, if you don't have the nerve to stand up for what you believe when it's legal to do so, you sure as HELL aren't going to have the backbone to do it when it isn't. Buried guns don't win battles.
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Old March 4, 2001, 04:40 PM   #31
Zander
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Nope...

"If it ever comes to armed resistance, we will lose. Any such fight will be a fight for defiance, not for victory." -- AnotherPundit

...you're wrong; and the entire history of guerilla warfare proves it.
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Old March 4, 2001, 09:08 PM   #32
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On that note: no army in modern history has ever managed to suppress a determined armed people with the will to fight. Some of the most advanced military forces in the history of warfare have received bloody noses trying it. M-16s and AK-47s versus SKS and Henry-Martini rifles sound like an uneven match, but the defender in those historical examples always had two crucial elements on their side: it was their territory, and they had the will to fight for it.
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Old March 4, 2001, 11:27 PM   #33
glock glockler
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Way to go Lendringser, it amazes me that someone who is not even an American citizen yet has far more guts and conviction than many so-called Americans who have watched their freedoms erode steadily but dont see that big a problem with that. I, for one, will be damn proud to call you a fellow citizen in a few months, but I am content to know that you are a Kamerad in arms right now. Let me know when the big day is, I'll send you a bottle of Jack Daniels(you cant get much more American than that

GG
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Old March 5, 2001, 07:25 AM   #34
AnotherPundit
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If it ever came to open battling a la the afghans or anything else similar, yes, i'd agree, the guerrillas would win Eventually.

But I just can't see that it would. I don't think there will ever be open battles. There will just be slow, steady, gradual erosion of rights, and slow piecemeal confiscations. They won't go house to house searching; but every time they Do search a house, they'll take what guns they find. . just like they're doing in california now ("Really! we were chasing him Right Through Here!") Not with a bang, but with a whimper.
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Old March 5, 2001, 08:21 AM   #35
AnotherPundit
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Oh, one thing I should clarify; it's not that I don't think such an uprising is possible, I just dont' think it's likely to happen until it's too late -- after the guns are gone, etc.

And yeah, I'm all over the place. Proselytizing my site if nothing else :P
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Old March 5, 2001, 10:43 AM   #36
Gus~
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Yeah !
Ditto
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Old March 5, 2001, 11:15 AM   #37
Thumper
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Lendringer...

Outstanding post.

Gun owners in California are going through their problems because their voices weren't heard above those of the sheeple.

That won't happen in my state. If it does, we'll fight. "They" know that. Because we make it known.

Like DZ said...it would have been SO much easier NOT to dump that tea.

We don't remember John Hancock for writing his name in small print.

"Molon Labe."-Be careful not to say it too loud. Sheesh.



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Old March 5, 2001, 03:09 PM   #38
Red Label
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I second the accolades to the original post, and other "defiant" posts here. I am known to those that know me as a rather outspoken critic of the government machine and the sheeple. And I have said aloud many a time to those that would listen, that I when the time came to stand-up for what you believe in, that I would indeed stand.

But, it is my sincere hope that when the s$%t really does hit the fan, that there will be some sort of uniting of the people. Organization is the ONLY way it will work. Chaos and "every man for himself" will NOT work. If the colonials had not been united, they would have gone nowhere. The whole match may have been started by a few in Boston Harbor, but without the people being united, we would be Brits now...

I live in Montana. Just a ways from where the Freemen stand-off occured, and right here in the city where they were tried (hell, they may still be on trial, I don't know...). On the surface, they had "flown the coup". But there were real issues with government. Was there ANY sympathy or public pressure on the Feds to keep it "right"? Not much.
They did things wrong all along the way to get themselves into the situation. But it all started they same way a lot of the same type of things start. Sort of the same way the Boston Tea Party started...

Think about it... for whatever reason, you are unable to pay your outrageously high taxes (in their case -- loan payments), so all of a sudden Uncle Sam steps-in and says he's going to take the land of your family and your ancestors away because you missed a tax payment. I can see why people wanna grab their guns in cases such as this. Whether you are a land-owner or not in this country -- YOU ARE STILL JUST A RENTER! Even if the mortgage is all payed off, if you miss the "rent" payment, you WILL be evicted. I can't believe that people have put up with this as much as they have. I'm pretty sure that this ain't what the founding fathers had in mind.
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Old March 5, 2001, 07:41 PM   #39
mpthole
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Excellent Lendringers! I can (sort of) understand some people not wanting to make waves, but it makes me want to print it out, sign it and send it to EVERYONE in congress both locally and at the federal level. ...in fact, I think I will!
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Old May 8, 2002, 01:53 PM   #40
Tamara
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I think this one should get bumped every so often.
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Old May 8, 2002, 02:11 PM   #41
jmlv
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Pundit, The soviots thought the same thing about afganistan

10 years ago. It appears they were wrong. You think perhaps you may be too? They may get away with your senerio once or twice but word WILL get out. Then its they who will get the surprise.
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Old May 8, 2002, 02:46 PM   #42
Edward429451
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Amen Indeed.

Does this mean we should be checking on our neighbors if we hear small arms fire in the distance? It makes me wonder how they wouldv'e felt in Waco if they wouldv'e received occasional precision sniper fire from behind the lines. One shot every two to four days is all it would take...

What a terrible time to be a LEO. Used to the only had to look out for BG's. (How come there's not more civil disobediance to the CCW permits?)

The fundemental law boils down to two...

1. Honor and fulfill all contracts you enter into voluntarily and intentionally. (Even verbally. Be as good as your word.)

2. Don't tread on anyones rights in any way. (This is very broad and encompasses everything.)
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Old May 8, 2002, 03:33 PM   #43
Bud Helms
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I think Lendringser's Declaration goes for freedom loving human's everywhere, not just in America. However, I do see it as our burden and right to show the way. The Declaration is a good step in that direction. It speaks for so many.

Well said, comrad.
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Old May 8, 2002, 04:28 PM   #44
Bog
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I had the pleasure of reading Lendringser's Declaration (As I move for it to be known hereforth ) some time ago.

It planted certain seeds in my mind - not least the thought that at Lendringser has the opportunity to make such decisions, and such judgement calls. Where I currently live, I do not. In fact I have in my posession one, count 'em, one penetrative trauma implement that largely gets used for sharpening pencils and opening letters. Projectile weaps? Forget it!

We in Blaireditz have gone to far to even understand most of what's in the Declaration.

Which means I have far to go, I guess

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Old May 8, 2002, 07:06 PM   #45
Calamity Jane
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Thunderous applause for Lendringser.

Bump.
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Old May 8, 2002, 07:07 PM   #46
MitchSchaft
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Can it be this easy?
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Old May 8, 2002, 07:13 PM   #47
gburner
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Surrender?

Another Pundit.....
I suggest, given your point of view, that you take every weapon you own and immediately turn them in. You have failed to understand that the issue is not the winning or losing, badly or otherwise, but the fight itself; a fight for a God given right, specifically enumerated in our Constitution, to keep and bear arms. Once this right is torn from the fabric of our liberty, all other rights, specified or implied, will become grist in the mill of tyranny.
I pray to God that we never see that day, but if it should come, I pray just as fervently for the resolve to make that fight, despite the odds.
Bravo Lendringser!
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Old May 8, 2002, 10:00 PM   #48
Brian Gibbons
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Commendable Words ...

However, I've always thought that it was not prudent judgement to let the "other side" know your thoughts or intentions ...
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Old May 8, 2002, 11:15 PM   #49
Torquemada
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Quote:
nudists bearing/baring guns
I think that me running around nude would scare my neighbors more than whatever I'd be carrying

Quote:
pre-dawn raids by ATF/etc.
Well, I'm a night owl, so I s'pose I'd either be first or last
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Old May 9, 2002, 08:23 AM   #50
Hawkman
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Another Pundit posted:

"one thing to realize: there will never be a battle in the streets. There will be a thousand million lone arrests and lone confiscations, in a million different solitary pre-dawn homes, and each separate law-abiding citizen will in serial order face tens and hundreds of body-armored, full-auto-armed, paramilitarily trained SWAT/ATF troopsmen, coming into each separate homestead in the small hours of the night with all the power of helicopters and armored vehicles to back them up. It would be a war of highly trained, highly armed, highly organized forces against random assortments of unsupported, untrained, and lightly equipped civilians, and the civilians would lose, lose quickly, and lose badly.

If it ever comes to armed resistance, we will lose. Any such fight will be a fight for defiance, not for victory"

Guess the militia movement is right, then. better go organize.
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