Different Way to Shoot: The C.A.R. System - Take A Look - Page 2

BigO01 · January 8, 2008, 05:28 AM

Looks like something invented by some gangsta wannabe clown , tilting the weapon sideways .

No thanks I shoot fast and accurately enough with the gun oriented the correct way to make me happy , but hey feel free to mount sight on the side of your slide if it floats your boat .

evan1293 · January 8, 2008, 06:03 AM

Chui · January 8, 2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

IPDS is the civillian version of Center axis relock. There are absolutely no differences between the two systems of shooting, they are both the same. The courses are run a little differently only because of the fact that certain aspects of the military / law enforcement courses would not be applicaple to the civillian, for instance team assault drills and alike.

CAR is an aggressive shooting system. Many people get turned off by this and they dismiss the entire system because they think they'll get hung in court for using it. Look at it this way...we know that the type of encounters we're most likely to face as civillians are going to be generally up close. Muggings, carjackings, and home invasions are probably the most common types of scenarios. People don't get mugged at 10,15, and 25 yards. They get mugged or assaulted in their personal zones. Same goes for car jackings. In the home, most distances across rooms are generally no more than 10 yards, with most areas being much tighter than that. The stress of fighting up close is incredible. The time frame of these types of encounters are very short and often very violent. If someone chooses to attack me or my loved ones with deadly force, who says I have to go "shot for shot" with them. Im sure anyone one of us would want to end such and incident as soon as possible. In the home, every shot the bad guys is allowed to take is a shot that could sail past you and kill a family member, or could kill you. The CAR system allows for the victim to respond with 'violence of action' which is not a bad thing. Multiple body, head shots can be fired with great speed from a very strong fighting position in CAR. This allows the victim to end the fight quickly...the fight that he was forced into. CAR looks scary because frankly, it is... Its scary-fast and effective.

Evan, I like the aggression. It's up to the individual to THINK about his/her circumstances and act accordingly. I find it much easier to ease up than to go forward.

There is a season for all things: slow aimed fire, "point" shooting, surgical speed shooting, running, etc. Those who do not see this remind me of the karate do guys some time ago pronouncing their system as being "the best" only to have their arses handed to them by non-martial artists. Same thing happened when UFC first came popular. Open your minds or get knocked out of same...

evan1293 · January 8, 2008, 11:36 PM

Quote:

There is a season for all things: slow aimed fire, "point" shooting, surgical speed shooting, running, etc. Those who do not see this remind me of the karate do guys some time ago pronouncing their system as being "the best" only to have their arses handed to them by non-martial artists. Same thing happened when UFC first came popular. Open your minds or get knocked out of same...
__________________

I agree fully. I think that its important to have as many tools in one's defensive toolbox as possible, and to train in the ability to utilize the best tool at the right time. No one system in fighting or shooting is the end all. As far as shooting goes, Im finding that it works well to have a default shooting platform or system; for me thats CAR. I'm able to effectively use CAR for most of what Im likely to face. If Im shooting out at 15 yards+ however, I may punch out to mod iso. Sometimes I shoot a mix between CAR / weaver at intermediate distances. This seems to work well in that it allows me to make use of the advantage that one platform would give me over another in a given situation. All of these systems / stances are a means to an end...the end being putting rounds on target as quickly and as accurately as possible. When I hear commments like, "fast enough" that makes me laugh. What exactly is fast enough? If my life was in danger fast enough would be as fast as humanly possible. If I consider myself to shoot "fast enough" or do anything good enough that is equivalent to saying I don't need to improve at all. And guess what, you won't. You'll never get any better than you are at that moment. I don't want to spend any of my precious time or hard earned money on an activity that I won't improve at. When it comes to this activity of defensive shooting, which may work to help save the lives of myself and loved ones, you bet I want to get as good as I possibly can.

BigO01 · January 9, 2008, 01:01 AM

Quote:

CAR looks scary because frankly, it is....Its scary-fast and effective.

OO yea Homey and yoo loo coo too doo n da 4 ta !!!

Funny , Jerry Miculek is scary fast and effect and he doesn't even dance around doing the hokey pokey ....

Ah little boys n their toys . LMAO

evan1293 · January 9, 2008, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Funny , Jerry Miculek is scary fast and effect and he doesn't even dance around doing the hokey pokey ....

Jerry is an awesome shooter without a doubt, but we're talking defensive shooting not competition. Nobody's trying to grab his weapon, stab him or kill him in an IPSC match.

Rob Leatham and Brian Enos are two of the best shooters that ever lived in the competition world. 20 + years ago they started shooting from an Iso stance with thumbs pointed forward at the target. Thumbs pointed forward???..... That sound funny. Well it doesn't today but back then it did because just about everyone was shooter from Col. Cooper's weaver. Today just about all top competition shooters are shooting what has come to be known as the "Leatham-Enos grip" from iso.

My point is that, development and improvement is not made by maintaining the status quo. The bar is raised by those who have gone against the norm and tried methods that seemed odd and unconventional. Here's a free piece of advice: Change your attitude and go out and LEARN ABOUT/ try CAR or any other method of shooting that may look silly to you. If you try something with an open mind, with the attitude of wanting to improve, then you'll be able to objectively determine if a given method will work for you or not.

JohnN · December 12, 2009, 11:27 AM

I've developed an interest in Central Axis Relock and wonder if there are any new developments. Like everything else when people start testing the system improvements are usually made. Unfortunately, like anything out of the mainstream people flock to criticize without actually taking the time to get any quality instruction. So it would be helpful if only folks who have had proper instruction comment as opposed to those who wish to make cheap and unknowing shots.

ClaysCustomGrips · December 12, 2009, 07:47 PM

Looks like I missed out, anybody have some updated links to the videos?

threadbare · December 13, 2009, 08:42 PM

I was introduced to Center Axis Relock at a training with Roger Phillips in East TX recentley. It was put out as a concept involving dynamic movement as well as being static at retention distance. It worked well for me from contact distance out to about 10 yards shearing off at diffent angles. Sighting was off the slide of the pistol close in and using body and visual index a bit farther out (point shooting). Everyone training there did well with it, except for a guy who couldn't get out of his MT mindset. Played around with it using airsoft pistols with a couple of training buddies and we were all able to get multiple hits on moving, shooting, resisting opponents. Just force on force but we wanted to see what we could do with it. All in all, for me I find it to be an effective technique that I might or might not need some day. Depends on the situation I guess.

Deaf Smith · December 13, 2009, 09:15 PM

even,

A few questions.

Is the CAR just one partcular technique and or is it a system for CQB?

From what I've seen of the videos there is no drawing, or weapons presentation, to lead into the CAR method. And since, as you said, most of the SD situations are inside 7 yards how does the CAR address this? That is how do you safely get into this bladed two handed hold safely and quickly?

Also, if the other hand is needed to block or ward off fist/knife/club, how does the CAR system address this?

And also when shooting, I noticed the targets were the kind you can easly spot hits (granted, most are.) Does the CAR method depend on spotting hits and adjusting the fire?

Thanks.

cubesmoothie · December 14, 2009, 12:38 PM

i'm wary of the way it might make yourself vulnerable to taking a shot in the side. It would line up your vitals which is not good. One bullet could go straight through several organs.

rburch · December 14, 2009, 02:26 PM

I may play with it a bit, seems a good option for in a car, or very close quarters.

I'm a bit nervous about:

Snagging the slide and causing malfunctions in an Semi Auto.

Hitting yourself in the face with the slide (In some of the pics, the people look like it would happen if they shot.

Shooting a revolver from the body indexed position (Looks like a good way to burn yourself)

December 13, 2009, 09:15 PM	#35
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	even, A few questions. Is the CAR just one partcular technique and or is it a system for CQB? From what I've seen of the videos there is no drawing, or weapons presentation, to lead into the CAR method. And since, as you said, most of the SD situations are inside 7 yards how does the CAR address this? That is how do you safely get into this bladed two handed hold safely and quickly? Also, if the other hand is needed to block or ward off fist/knife/club, how does the CAR system address this? And also when shooting, I noticed the targets were the kind you can easly spot hits (granted, most are.) Does the CAR method depend on spotting hits and adjusting the fire? Thanks. __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

December 14, 2009, 02:26 PM	#37
rburch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Blacksburg VA Posts: 750	I may play with it a bit, seems a good option for in a car, or very close quarters. I'm a bit nervous about: Snagging the slide and causing malfunctions in an Semi Auto. Hitting yourself in the face with the slide (In some of the pics, the people look like it would happen if they shot. Shooting a revolver from the body indexed position (Looks like a good way to burn yourself) __________________ I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

January 8, 2008, 05:28 AM	#26
BigO01 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Posts: 138	Looks like something invented by some gangsta wannabe clown , tilting the weapon sideways . No thanks I shoot fast and accurately enough with the gun oriented the correct way to make me happy , but hey feel free to mount sight on the side of your slide if it floats your boat .

January 8, 2008, 06:03 AM	#27
evan1293 Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2007 Location: CT Posts: 783

December 12, 2009, 11:27 AM	#32
JohnN Member Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: Indiana Posts: 15	I've developed an interest in Central Axis Relock and wonder if there are any new developments. Like everything else when people start testing the system improvements are usually made. Unfortunately, like anything out of the mainstream people flock to criticize without actually taking the time to get any quality instruction. So it would be helpful if only folks who have had proper instruction comment as opposed to those who wish to make cheap and unknowing shots.

December 12, 2009, 07:47 PM	#33
ClaysCustomGrips Junior Member Join Date: December 12, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 12	Looks like I missed out, anybody have some updated links to the videos?

December 13, 2009, 08:42 PM	#34
threadbare Member Join Date: April 23, 2007 Posts: 29	I was introduced to Center Axis Relock at a training with Roger Phillips in East TX recentley. It was put out as a concept involving dynamic movement as well as being static at retention distance. It worked well for me from contact distance out to about 10 yards shearing off at diffent angles. Sighting was off the slide of the pistol close in and using body and visual index a bit farther out (point shooting). Everyone training there did well with it, except for a guy who couldn't get out of his MT mindset. Played around with it using airsoft pistols with a couple of training buddies and we were all able to get multiple hits on moving, shooting, resisting opponents. Just force on force but we wanted to see what we could do with it. All in all, for me I find it to be an effective technique that I might or might not need some day. Depends on the situation I guess.

December 14, 2009, 12:38 PM	#36
cubesmoothie Member Join Date: June 26, 2009 Posts: 85	i'm wary of the way it might make yourself vulnerable to taking a shot in the side. It would line up your vitals which is not good. One bullet could go straight through several organs.