Please explain the difference in striker mechs...

[JJ45]

In striker mechanisms of the standard Glock vs Springfield XD.

I have been told that one is an SA striker and the other DA? Can someone make sense of this.

Thanks, JJ

[Nathan]

The XD is a sliding striker held cocked by a rotating sear. Striker is at full cock as held. Release is when the trigger, also rotating is pulled rearward.

The Glock is a striker held partially to the cocked position by a sliding sear/trigger bar. To release, the trigger, rotating, is pulled. The trigger bar/sear moves to the rear, fully cocking the striker and then is cammed down when it hits the connector, thus releasing a fully cocked striker. There is a lot of force here, much of which is done by the trigger spring and some by the pulling trigger finger.

[JJ45]

Then to simplify things the Glock is a trigger cocking mechanism then somewhat double action where the XD is a single action striker if you can use those modes to describe the operation of the two pistols?

The XD would seem to be simpler?

[lee n. field]

Originally Posted by JJ45

Then to simplify things the Glock is a trigger cocking mechanism then somewhat double action where the XD is a single action striker if you can use those modes to describe the operation of the two pistols?

The XD would seem to be simpler?

If you look at them, not really.

If you examine how the Glock is designed, it is a marvel of simplicity. Which is probably a reason a lot of guns copy it.

[jmr40]

Technically Glock, and most all striker fired guns are DAO. But the striker is partially cocked. Pulling the trigger finishes pulling the striker the rest of the way back then release it. But in reality, it feels like a 5-6 lb SA trigger pull.

The XD has the striker fully cocked and is true SA. Pulling the trigger simply releases the striker. But in reality, both trigger pulls feel about the same to the users.

The primary reason you almost never see an XD in LE use is because of the SA trigger. Most LE agencies have regulations stating their guns have to be DA, or DAO. While the end result is pretty much the same, Glocks meet the criteria and XD does not.

SOME agencies do allow SA pistols, primarily for those that want to carry a 1911. But those are uncommon and even most of those only allow those officers with enhanced training such as being on the SWAT team to carry SA.

BTW, virtually all other striker fired guns are more similar to Glock in order to neet LE regulations.

[JJ45]

Originally Posted by jmr40

Technically Glock, and most all striker fired guns are DAO. But the striker is partially cocked. Pulling the trigger finishes pulling the striker the rest of the way back then release it. But in reality, it feels like a 5-6 lb SA trigger pull.

The XD has the striker fully cocked and is true SA. Pulling the trigger simply releases the striker. But in reality, both trigger pulls feel about the same to the users.

The primary reason you almost never see an XD in LE use is because of the SA trigger. Most LE agencies have regulations stating their guns have to be DA, or DAO. While the end result is pretty much the same, Glocks meet the criteria and XD does not.

SOME agencies do allow SA pistols, primarily for those that want to carry a 1911. But those are uncommon and even most of those only allow those officers with enhanced training such as being on the SWAT team to carry SA.

BTW, virtually all other striker fired guns are more similar to Glock in order to neet LE regulations.

Ok, obviously neither is inherently unsafe although I have heard of Glock leg but that's probably user neglect in most cases.

So carrying an XD in Condition One it is actually cocked and unlocked but for the grip safety and trigger. Those that scorn the GS on an XD had better think twice.

The Glock, being DA, needs no grip safety but relies on the trigger.

Six of these, half dozen of the other IMO

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by jj45

The Glock, being DA, needs no grip safety but relies on the trigger.

Nah…the Glock is still partially cocked and unlocked. It’s dangerous. It’s an example of how “marketing “ messages play into your liability. USA is/was the best marketing ever.

[JJ45]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Nah…the Glock is still partially cocked and unlocked. It’s dangerous. It’s an example of how “marketing “ messages play into your liability. USA is/was the best marketing ever.

That's an interesting post Nathan! But a little difficult to comprehend...

Can you or someone further elaborate?

[Nathan]

First, that was said a bit tongue in cheek.

The Glock striker is partially cocked….as in the trigger bar is holding the trigger back some. Also, the trigger bar spring is pulling it towards firing always. So, it is biased to fire.

Then when a finger is left in, jacket snags, trigger is touched under stress, there are nd’s with Glocks.

Glock has marketed the gun as being built with the Ultra Safe Action, with 3 safeties. Glock has really pushed the mantra that a safe shooter and a safe holster are the only possible failure points with the USA.

They have completely missed the study of human performance….humans have a super high error rate….and the need for redundancy in life altering systems is real.

….and this is where the marketing steps in. Glock promotes the blaming of their users for design flaws. When people shoot themselves with a Glock, it is always the shooter’s fault because the gun offers no safety redundancy.

A 1911, has 2 redundancies, an XD has 1 redundancy, a shield plus w/ safety has 1 redundancy…..a Glock has zero redundancy. Imagine if life support systems had zero redundancy? Ah sorry, brown out…..he died.

[JJ45]

Originally Posted by Nathan

First, that was said a bit tongue in cheek.

The Glock striker is partially cocked….as in the trigger bar is holding the trigger back some. Also, the trigger bar spring is pulling it towards firing always. So, it is biased to fire.

Then when a finger is left in, jacket snags, trigger is touched under stress, there are nd’s with Glocks.

Glock has marketed the gun as being built with the Ultra Safe Action, with 3 safeties. Glock has really pushed the mantra that a safe shooter and a safe holster are the only possible failure points with the USA.

They have completely missed the study of human performance….humans have a super high error rate….and the need for redundancy in life altering systems is real.

….and this is where the marketing steps in. Glock promotes the blaming of their users for design flaws. When people shoot themselves with a Glock, it is always the shooter’s fault because the gun offers no safety redundancy.

A 1911, has 2 redundancies, an XD has 1 redundancy, a shield plus w/ safety has 1 redundancy…..a Glock has zero redundancy. Imagine if life support systems had zero redundancy? Ah sorry, brown out…..he died.

ok, would you consider this. I'll use a CZ 82 as an example. It has a thumb safety but can only be activated if the weapon is cocked (cocked and locked) Since there is no grip safety I don't carry it that way. Because there is always the possibility it will somehow snick off

Instead, I carry it with a round chambered and safety always off. So first shot is DA. Similar to a DAO or Decock only with no safety. Of course, the danger in this is the safety could inadvertently be on at an inopportune moment unlike a DAO, ETC....So how many "redundancies" Wouldn't the Glock mechanism be pretty much the same?

BTW, I don't own a Glock but do own XDs which I have a high regard.

[Nathan]

You are right that DA, DAO and DA revolvers all share this lack of redundancy albeit with a higher trigger pull force.

Have you ever tried to holster a DA gun with your finger in the trigger? Unloaded of course. I consider this very difficult to achieve.

Thus, is the heavier & longer pull a bit of a redundancy in and of itself? I guess people have to decide themselves.

The Glock on the other hand is a 5-7lb trigger stock….then many Glockxperts often change springs, connectors, triggers, etc to get that under 4lbs, cause they prefer that pull weight and, if ramblings on the internet are believed, are 100% on:
Quality holster
Finger off the trigger
Assuring clear trigger and holster before/during holstering

So….

BTW, I like the XD a lot also. Moved to the Shield Plus myself. I like the S&W safety a lot.

[tangolima]

The trigger spring in stock Glock actually pulls in a direction to lighten the take-up pull weight.

I changed out components in my G23 to increase the take up weight and lighten the wall, so that it feels more like a DA revolver. I reset trigger so the trigger breaks close to SA after the first shot.

I don't carry. The pistol is my go-to gun should a firearm be needed. When it is loaded, the chamber is empty. I practice to rack the slide before presenting it. It is my choice.

I have 3 conversion barrels; 9mm, .357 sig, and 22TCM9R.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[JohnKSa]

Striker-fired guns are harder to understand than hammer-fired guns because the ignition mechanism is hidden inside the gun where it can't be seen.

In a DA hammer-fired gun, it's easy to see the hammer is down, then the trigger moves it back and drops it. In a DA/SA revolver, you can even see, if you look closely, that the hammer doesn't get pulled back as far with a DA trigger pull as it does when the hammer is manually cocked.

If the hammer were partially cocked, and the trigger completed the job of pulling it back all the way to release it, that would be visible too.

But in a striker-fired gun, you can't generally see the striker. Let's say you have a striker-fired gun (like the Glock or the XD) where the trigger won't operate until the slide has been racked. That makes it seem like an SA hammer-fired firearm where the slide cocks the hammer.

Since we can't see the striker, we don't know if it's only barely cocked, if it's fully cocked, or if it's somewhere in between. We could pull the trigger and try to guess about things based on how far the trigger travels and how hard it is to pull, but those methods are very unreliable.

One can start experimenting with the gun and figure some things out with careful observations and measurements, but a lot of people either don't have the inclination to perform such activities or don't have the mechanical aptitude to pull it off.

Anyway, it is possible to figure out about how much of the striker spring compression is performed by the slide and by the trigger and work out what that means in terms of whether the gun is cocked, not cocked or partially cocked.

The Glock is about half-cocked. The striker spring is about halfway compressed before the trigger pull starts. I've verified this with standard Glocks and cutaway pistols.

The XD (by all accounts--I have not verified this myself) striker spring is nearly fully compressed before the trigger pull starts.

There are some other striker-fired guns out there where the striker spring is essentially uncompressed at the start of the trigger pull.

What does that mean? It's not an earth-shattering difference. All of the guns have mechanisms to prevent the gun from firing if something goes wrong. Even the guns where the striker spring is fully compressed before the trigger pull starts are generally safe if dropped. It can make a difference in the trigger pull--but often it's difficult to tell the difference between two designs that have significantly differing amounts of striker spring compression by trigger pull feel.

This is the kind of thing that can be discussed, hashed and rehashed by people who find such things interesting, but in terms of practicality, you can usually ignore all this as long as you buy from a reputable gunmaker, known for quality designs and good customer support. I'm not saying that's a totally foolproof approach, because nothing is foolproof, but it's a pretty good strategy in general.

I wouldn't make a buying decision based purely on how much the striker spring was compressed in the design. I suppose it might figure into the decision as one of several other factors depending on the circumstances, but frankly, I bought my first Glock without knowing anything about how much the striker spring was compressed before the trigger is pulled, and I own Kahr pistols and still don't know much about the specifics of striker spring compression with the trigger at rest in those guns.