New to the wheel gun forums

[PushPuller]

Morning everybody! Through various sources I accrued a handful of Scheels gift cards and set off yesterday with the intentions of putting a decent dent in the cost of a CZ shotgun, or maybe even a 686 Plus that iv talked about wanting for years but couldn't afford before they became harder to find.

I perused the shotguns with no luck, then the revolver case that had several 686s but they were short barrels (iv been wanting a 6"). A little bummed out I decided to take a second look at the revolver case when I noticed a 6" 2020 Colt Python! Iv always liked the look of the python and have considered looking into getting one but between cost and availability that was a pipe dream. As I'm sure you suspected with the help of a few hundred dollars in gift cards burning a hole in my pocket I couldn't pass up the Python and brought it home without hesitation. Needless to say I've fallen in love fast.

I however am not a wheel gun guy. I love rifles and semi auto pistols but have very little experience aside from a few older police 38 specials and my dads 686. Is there any advise you guys would give a wheel gun novice, anything I need to keep an eye on that isn't typical to every firearm. or anything that is Python specific i should know about?

[cdoc42]

I can't speak to the Python, but I can relate that 57% of my handguns are revolvers, and I don't really have a preference for one over the other. My situation is the reverse of yours, with pistols following the revolvers in inventory. The major difference I feel is the convenience of the pistol magazine size on one hand vs better trigger control with the wheel gun, especially single action. But over time and continued practice, any significant differences completely disappear, replaced by confidence.

[44 AMP]

Is there any advise you guys would give a wheel gun novice, anything I need to keep an eye on that isn't typical to every firearm. or anything that is Python specific i should know about?

this applies to all swing out cylinder revolvers,

DO NOT "FLIP" the cylinder in and out the way you see done in the movies and on tv. EVER!! Doing a "Bogart" shutting the cylinder with a flck of your wrist is hard on the gun. It can damage it. Don't do it.

they do it in the movies for its dramatic effect. Those guns are not the actor's personal property. They don't give a snit about damage to finely fitted mechanisms.

Like flipping open and flipping shut a double barrel shotgun, its good for drama on film, its BAD for the mechanism.

Also be aware that they are not designed to be taken apart and put back together endlessly. Unlike semiautos designed for military use, where that is a consideration in the design, revolvers are made with the general expectation that the owners are not going to be detail stripping and screwing with them. Resist that temptation.

If you ever get a misfire, squib, unusual report, bullet doesn't strike target or anything like that STOP!!! DO NOT pull the trigger again. STOP and find out what happened, and make sure the barrel is clear.

Combat training is a good thing, BUT when you get a weapon malfunction, TRAINING IS OVER, RIGHT THEN!!!
Teaching someone to keep going is asking for serious trouble. Might be necessary when people are shooting at you, but when they aren't (and that includes training pretending that they are) a malfunction means STOP, identify and fix the problem.

Revolvers have other quirks, unique to their designs, one of them is that recoil "pulls" the case back away from the bullet. This is called "jumping the crimp" or "bullet creep". Not an issue with properly made ammo, but if the ammo is sub-par in neck tension and crimp, the bullet can move forward in the cylinder, even far enough to poke out the end and jam the gun.
Just something to keep an eye out for...

Another thing is that screws can loosen. Get a PROPERLY made and fitting screwdriver (hollow ground tip) that completely fits the screw slot and check screws for tightness every so often. Never use a "regular" screwdriver, it can slip and mar the screw slot.

I would also recommend not doing what some U-tube or other internet source shows/tells you how to "improve" things.

This list is not all inclusive, I'm sure I left out a few things,
Hope this helps...

[shurshot]

A drop or two of Locktite or fingernail polish on the threads of the ejector rod is another good precautionary measure, otherwise when you least expect it, it "might" turn out and jam up your new baby. Very common problem (happened to me twice over the last 40 years), once addressed, I find revolvers far more reliable than semiautomatics.

[dgludwig]

DO NOT "FLIP" the cylinder in and out the way you see done in the movies and on tv. EVER!! Doing a "Bogart" shutting the cylinder with a flck of your wrist is hard on the gun. It can damage it. Don't do it.

I absolutely agree with this admonition but only because I've always been warned about it and the argument always seemed to make sense. But lots of things are predicated on folklore that seems to make sense and I've always wondered if anyone has ever empirically tested how "hard" it really is on a revolver and if there is actual evidence to support the allegation that measurable damage (springing the crane) can be incurred by the practice.

[HighValleyRanch]

What? I learned all my techinuqes by watching movies!
I know it works because they never run out of bullets and always get the bad guys by the techniques they use. That's enough proof for me!

[KyJim]

Since you are not used to shooting revolvers, make sure you allow the trigger to go all the way forward before firing a follow-up shot in double action. The trigger does not reset like most semi-autos. My second piece of advice is to have fun shooting it. Congratulations on the new gun!

[Obambulate]

I had a Ruger I didn't like very much, so I cowboyed the cylinder every chance I got. I don't think you can break a Ruger, they are inelegant but sturdy.

[shurshot]

"I absolutely agree with this admonition but only because I've always been warned about it and the argument always seemed to make sense. But lots of things are predicated on folklore that seems to make sense and I've always wondered if anyone has ever empirically tested how "hard" it really is on a revolver and if there is actual evidence to support the allegation that measurable damage (springing the crane) can be incurred by the practice."(Dgludwig).

Next time you are at a gun show or gun shop, take a look at older revolvers. Sooner or later you will find one that has a huge gap between the ejector crane and frame. Cylinder will be very loose. Gun might even shave lead when it fires due to its looseness. It's no allegation, no need for "testing"; anyone who has been around awhile knows it as fact... keep flipping that cylinder shut hard like TV stars and you WILL eventually damage the crane & ruin the gun.

It's one of the first things to look for (and avoid!), when shopping for a used revolver, especially LEO trade in's.

[GeauxTide]

Unless you have large hands, the Python will be a problem. I have medium hands and couldn't reach the trigger for DA operation. Sold it and got a S&W 27.

[44 AMP]

I will add that its not just flipping it SHUT but also flipping it open with excessive force that can bend things.

Think about it, you have a large mass of metal (cylinder) at a right angle to the crane, when the crane comes to a hard sudden stop. The faster it moves, the more force twisting the crane when it stops. Only takes a tiny bit of bend to screw up the gun.

Opening or closing the gun at normal speed does no harm. Even letting the cylinder fall open of its own weight isn't a concern but slamming things, with a wrist flick is a BAD idea.

Also, when ejecting fired cases, its best to point the muzzle UP. This not only allows gravity to assist, but also minimizes the odds of getting debris underneath the extractor star, which is one of the things that will jam a DA revolver.

If you want to empirically test how many flips it takes to spring a crane, go right ahead, with YOUR gun!

Me, I'll just ask Mr Owl, how many licks it takes, for he is wiser than we....

[cdoc42]

Pushpuller, read the "Sticky," "The Revolver Checkout," that is right above your post; it's great for reviewing what to look out for if you are buying a used revolver, but it also reveals what can eventually go wrong with yours.

[shurshot]

44AMP, that's a great idea! Someone should take one for the team, buy a new Python, and record how many hard snaps it takes to bend the crane and effect lockup, etc. That way we have empirical evidence to post on the internet. But to be fair, Ruger, S&W and Korth should also be tested.
Perhaps one of the Youtube experts (like Yankee Marshall?), will pony up the money and conduct the testing?

[arquebus357]

Looking down the barrel and pulling the trigger with your thumb will not be to your advantage.

[dgludwig]

It's no allegation, no need for "testing"; anyone who has been around awhile knows it as fact... keep flipping that cylinder shut hard like TV stars and you WILL eventually damage the crane & ruin the gun.

I've probably been around a lot longer than you and, for all the reasons cited, have never and would never flip the cylinder of a revolver closed. I simply wondered if the practice had ever been tested to determine the extent of the damage (if any) and how many times it would take to incur it. I'm sorry that just entertaining the idea seems to have caused so much disconcertion for some folks.

[UncleEd]

PushPuller,

I suggest you read some books on double
action shooting by such authors as
Masad Ayoob and Grant Cunningham.
They'll help you on not only shooting
but holding the revolver, loading it.

They both have You Tube demonstrations
as well.

And keep your fingers away from the
front of the cylinder during firing. The
blast from the cylidner gap can injure you.

[shurshot]

DGLudwig, no disrespect intended, we are just ribbing you in a good natured way. You probably do have me by a few years, of that I have no doubt.

[44 AMP]

I don't think you could come up with a meaningful test result, other than what the tested gun took.

Different guns, different alloys, different size cylinders, different amounts of force in "the flip" I don't see where you could say X number of times bends it, and have it apply to everything.

If you're old enough to remember Mr Owl and the Tootsie Pop, you already know the answer...

one...
two...
threeee.....

CRUNCH!!!

[tubeshooter]

^ You forgot the dry and declarative "Three." as Mr. Owl hands the lollipop stick back to an answered and disappointed child...


"How many flips does it take to ruin a revolver? The world may never know..."

[shurshot]

Owl and the Tootsie pop... and "I'm just a Bill".

But, that was back when it was ok for Yosemite Sam to have revolvers and Elmer Fudd was allowed to hunt small game with a shotgun. Things are sure different now.

[Jimmyjimmyjimmy]

Greetings from far far away in Ireland.

I was told by an Englishman that the only realistic shot fired with a revolver on film is when Clint fires a revolver at the end of The Unforgiven. Very slowly with great care. Is my friend correct?

Jimmy.

[Jimmyjimmyjimmy]

Jimmyjimmyjimmy. I presume that's your name? Don't just but in to the middle of a conversation. Before you even begin to try to join a forum get a child to show you how to use this new technology properly!!

Thank you.

Jimmy.

[44 AMP]

I was told by an Englishman that the only realistic shot fired with a revolver on film is when Clint fires a revolver at the end of The Unforgiven. Very slowly with great care. Is my friend correct?

No, your friend is not correct, that scene is hardly the ONLY realistic shot on film. One thing about the Unforgiven, that film goes to great lengths to not only show shooting the way it is actually done, but includes numerous passages of dialog explaining and debunking several popular myths about guns and gunfighters.

One of them, pointed out a couple times is that the fastest guy isn't always the winner. And, that on occasion, people have lost gunfights because they were the fastest, but not the most accurate...

[Jimmyjimmyjimmy]

Fair enough 44.

I am gonna watch the whole film now and seek out those insights. Any time I just point my finger to mimic a gun I think accuracy is near impossible. (for me).

Respect.
Jimmy

[dgludwig]

Different guns, different alloys, different size cylinders, different amounts of force in "the flip" I don't see where you could say X number of times bends it, and have it apply to everything.

If you're old enough to remember Mr Owl and the Tootsie Pop, you already know the answer...

I'm way older than the states of Alaska and Hawaii so I knew Mr. Owl when he was just an owlet.

I agree that it would be impossible or very impractical to really know what we already know or think we know by testing one individual revolver and expect the results to translate to all other revolvers. However, I think most of us would agree that just one "flip" of the cylinder, even if it was loaded and with vigor, is unlikely to cause any measurable damage to the frame of a quality revolver. If you can't measure the damage, no damage occurred. How many flips it would take to spring a frame might be interesting to know.

I was stationed overseas with the Air Force when Air Policemen still carried 1911 pistols (this was during the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis, so I was also acquainted with Tootsie Pop). After I returned stateside, the Air Force phased out the 1911 and began issuing Smith & Wesson K-frame revolvers, chambered in .38 Special. I worked in the armory where Air Policemen checked out and returned their issued revolver each day of duty. It was common practice for Air Policemen to close the loaded cylinders by flipping them shut at the start of the shift and to flip the loaded cylinder open at a clearing pit (a bucket loaded with sand) before handing it to the armorer with the cylinder open and empty. Though this practice wasn't condoned, it happened and I don't ever recall a revolver sprung out of action-granted, we were ignorant of the possible if not probable damage doing so might cause and we didn't look for any evidence of it happening.

Likewise, for the better part of the thirty years I spent in le we carried J-frame and K-frame Smiths before transitioning to autos and I knew some officers routinely "Bogarted" their revolvers (by then, most of them should have known better but it's been my experience to never look to le officers for advice as to how to properly care for a weapon). Again, I never saw evidence to support the notion that occasionally flipping cylinders necessarily distorts the frame to a noticeable degree. I think it takes a lot of repeated torque to move metal around.

As shurshot said, go to enough gun shows and you will see revolvers exhibiting a noticeable disparity in gap size between the frame and the crane. And whereas "common sense" suggests that flipping the cylinder caused the damage (I certainly believe it's probably the reason most of the time) there are other possibilities (i.e., ammunition overloads, shooting hundreds of thousands of rounds, etc.) that might be the reason-we simply don't know unless we know the history of the individual revolver.

All said, lest anyone think that I'm on the fence about the question, you would be ill-advised to flip a cylinder on one of my revolvers-even once.

Happy New Year everyone! Let's try to put 2020 behind us and hope for a better year for 2021.