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June 22, 2008, 05:24 PM | #76 | |
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June 22, 2008, 09:30 PM | #77 | |
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June 22, 2008, 09:53 PM | #78 | |
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Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed. |
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June 23, 2008, 12:02 AM | #79 |
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Anecdotal...
Some years ago<many years ago> I was dating a lady...and as the passenger in her car - a 1972 Vette -<gosh, do I remember the car more fondly?> I noticed a Beretta .25acp sticking out of the glove box... She remarked that it was there to 'scare off possible bad guys'. She had never actually fired the gun, but 'knew how to load it...' It was a bit chilling ie. she treated it like a kind of 'toy' and seemed to assume that it was a simple little thing to use... She had no experience with any firearms. It had been given to her as a 'gift' by a relative.
One problem with Mouse guns, is that I think they don't get the respect they deserve; they aren't toys - and they require more proficiency to use than a revolver or bigger semiautos. With a Mouse gun, one should frequently practice shooting it, and know how to 'clear it' of possible jams - and gain a significant level of skill. Yet, I would bet that Mouse guns suffer from getting the least amount of respect and proficiency of use. A big chunk of the stats in regard to the poor performance of .22/.25acp's might simply be a reflection of the unskillful use of the weapons rather than the actual weapons. One sad remark sometimes heard in the aftermath of a shooting<i'm thinking primarily of domestic situations> is :'It was just a .22.' - as if folks think that there's a special law that categorizes a little .22 as not being so serious... Tactical proficiency will almost always trump caliber size. I think people are a little smarter these days, but the Mouse gun could still benefit from a bigger dose of respect and training. I've seen Mouseguns being one of the most dangerous little items for some people to own...and I do believe that the .22 caliber is responsible for the most gunshot wounds of any caliber<i know it was some years back...> |
June 23, 2008, 09:09 AM | #80 | |
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June 23, 2008, 05:38 PM | #81 | |
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I know of another one - this time a woman who was shot seven times with a .25 caliber semi-automatic in the upper torso, neck and face. She, too, walks, smiles and is none the worse for wear minus scars from the surgery. The first guy was a muscular, athletic man in his day and at the time of the shooting - kinda like a NCAA defensive back. The woman was not overly anything. Kinda short, built like a 400 meter sprinter. Not overtly muscular or anthing. She'd tell you that it hurt but she was able to fight off the idiot and get to the phone to dial 911. IF A PERSON IS HIGHLY MOTIVATED YOU'VE JUST GOTTEN THEIR ATTENTION. IF THEY ARE CLOSE ENOUGH TO YOU & SUITABLY AGGRESSIVE THEY'LL GRAB YOU. AND IF THEY ARE SUITABLY ARMED IT'S NOW THEIR TURN... I'll pass...
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June 23, 2008, 05:45 PM | #82 | |
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I don't know where you're reaching to/from on the Eskimo, thingie.
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"Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves." ~ William Pitt, 1783 |
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June 23, 2008, 05:53 PM | #83 | |
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Iff (if and only if) If you aren't then I'm wholly at a loss to respond...
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"Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves." ~ William Pitt, 1783 |
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June 23, 2008, 05:59 PM | #84 | ||
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However, when/if you and the Goblin/Zombie "do the dance" HE will lead and YOU will follow. No mice stinger for me... It leaves far too much to chance.
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June 23, 2008, 06:03 PM | #85 | |
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I've got a sudden taste for mutton.
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June 23, 2008, 09:32 PM | #86 | |
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June 24, 2008, 01:59 AM | #87 |
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Yawning... Tactical proficiency trumps 'caliber' ie. if a .22/.25acp is all you're carrying...then it is your primary defense gun...and then one has to use the appropriate tactics that go along with it...
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June 24, 2008, 09:21 AM | #88 | |
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June 24, 2008, 05:44 PM | #89 |
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Well, if the referenceis .223 Remington/5.56 NATO you may be on to something. Otherwise,...
Good LUCK
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June 25, 2008, 02:05 AM | #90 |
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anecdotal...
http://www.mouseguns.com/tactics/seltac.htm
Part of the problem is that some folks get a kind of noble-but-skewed notion about self-defense ie. they've got a nice Glock or HK or 1911...and they practice well. Heck, they can hit the bullseye from 25yds. quite consistantly. They get a lot of well meaning + feedback from other shooters at the range, and they've taken a few classes too. They get a bit confident...and fantasize about using their .40 S&W to save the day at their workplace or the local mall from some crazed rampaging 300 lb. biker... Yet, in reality the self-defense situations they are likely to run into in public - are likely to be a quick and ugly close quarters sort of situation in which the perpetrator tries to get the jump on them in a kind of desparate ambush or blitz attack. You don't want a weapon that the perp can see and try to rob from you. Your BUG/Mousegun is thus your primary civilian weapon. Can you use it effectively? So what if you can hit bullseyes at 25yds. at the range with a Glock; can you in a high adrenalin frightening moment, pull out a mousegun and use it reliably against a perp. who is less than 5ft. away...against a perp who might already have a hand on you...or have knocked you down? The mousegun is designed to save your bacon. It's not a range gun or a gun to be used in a 'gunfight.' It's designed instead for the self defense situations a civilian is most likely to encounter in public. Its deep concealment is a virtue. Its controllability is a virtue. It lacks firepower - but it has capacity and it's designed for close quarters use. |
June 25, 2008, 03:17 AM | #91 | |
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Carry your mouse gun if you wish, and get what satisfaction you can out of knowing that Bubba might well bleed to death in an hour or so, or even die of severe abdominable infection a week later--and may suffer (yes!!) more than you did before you died. People far more knowledgeable than you and I recommend filing off the front sight of your primary mousegun and applying plenty of lube to the outside surface. Need you really ask why? |
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June 25, 2008, 07:00 AM | #92 |
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So just more theory, .300H&H but nothing helpful? No tactics and training courses for the use of the .22/.25 acp in self defense?
If the .22/.25 acp is so good for use as a primary defense gun, you gotta wonder why there aren't more of such courses. Heck, I have to wonder why there aren't any such courses! After all, there would apparently be a market...
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June 25, 2008, 07:49 AM | #93 | |
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Anyone can and should become proficient with whatever gun they carry and learn tactics to increase survival. Trying to make up for the deficiencies of a cartridge through special tactics is impossible. All one can do is taylor them to a particular weapon and hope the incident stays within those tactics. This is true for the larger calibers as well. The mouse gun just puts you at the very bottom of the ladder. BTW Here in Florida we are not allowed to carry a CW in a manor that someone could see it. The firearm much be concealed from ordinary view. If my bad guy sees it will only be when I pull it........hopefully to late for them. Some argue that since the odds of being attacked by a determined attacker are slim that the 22/25 will do. I argue that Murphy will see to it that I am attacked by the worst of the worst and leaving so much caliber on the table is simply not an option. |
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June 25, 2008, 07:59 AM | #94 |
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There are no courses because there are no professionals advocating the mouse gun as a primary carry gun. Folks who have a higher level of tactical firearm education and promotes a mouse gun as primary don't flourish in the business.
It would be akin to an economics professor saying that the price goes up when demand goes down. |
June 25, 2008, 08:12 AM | #95 | |
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June 25, 2008, 08:27 AM | #96 |
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The law of supply and demand is 99.999 percent law then......because until your post I had not heard of another.
Look at oil. Demand is more than supply right now by a million barrels a day. Prices are way up. Back in the day OPEC would cut supply to raise the price. A more recent and recognizable example would be the playstation 3 units. Demand was so high that folks would buy them retail and sell them for triple. In our hobby just look at the Seecamp before competitors flooded the market with copy's. Used guns would sell for more than a new one. The demand was greater than the supply. |
June 25, 2008, 10:55 AM | #97 |
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The tactics concerning mouseguns are basically the same as for carrying any BUG... Concealment is a virtue, and while some folks argue that larger guns can be concealed, I would suggest that I mean deep perfect comfortable concealment.
Self-defense does not begin and end with the firearm. Frankly, if somebody is mugged at close quarters, they might not be in a position to respond with any firearm at all. If the bad guy is holding a knife to one's throat or a gun to one's head - the caliber chambered in one's holstered glock...is a bit moot...and if the bad guy takes away one's glock, well, that's all the more ugly too. I would want a concealed gun to be as unobtrusive,secret and easy to whip out as a set of car keys or a wallet. Also, consider the law and the locations of possible confrontations. Do you really want to be shooting at a range beyond 7ft. ? The mouse gun is for close quarters self defense - to get you out of trouble. It's not a gun that a LEO would wear when approaching a drug suspect for a possible arrest; it is however a gun that might be in one's pocket when walking the dog. Considering that some folks have an old can of pepper spray or tear gas as their primary self defense, the mousgun is a powerhouse in comparison. Oh well, there are a lot of choices for primary carry. Size doesn't always matter. A lot of Cool Cats carry Mouseguns. You just don't see'em. It's kinda like a secret society. |
June 25, 2008, 12:41 PM | #98 |
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If you want to kill an attacker put big holes in their chest or head. Or both. The bigger the hole, the faster they are going to bleed out, or the more damage the object making the hole is going to do on it's trip inside.
Even with good shot placement, a .22 is not going to perform as good as a larger caliber.
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June 25, 2008, 01:05 PM | #99 | |
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June 25, 2008, 01:16 PM | #100 | |
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