The Smell of Cosmoline on a Bren

[MoscowMike]

Sarco caught me at a weak moment so I bought one of their Bren L4 kits
Bren L4A3

They come without barrels but we are told barrels will be available soon at a discount for people who bought the kits.

The receiver is torch cut and I get to practice my cosmoline removal skills -

Bren Kit Pics

Now I probably need to find a donor receiver to fill in the torch cut parts and someone to convert it to Semi. Sounds like a challenge but should be interesting.

- Mike

[dakota.potts]

Don't forget about 922(r) compliance. You can have no more than 10 foreign made parts out of a list of 20. Receiver and barrel are two easy ones to knock out. Other (typically) easy targets are the fire control group (3 parts right there) and magazines (another 3 parts) but in the case of the Bren, I don't know where US parts are.

Definitely post a build thread. I'm working on a CETME right now. I know what you mean about the cosmoline. This thread has the picture of my kit as it came from APEX (not in bad condition for $199) http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ighlight=cetme

[barnbwt]

I ordered one when they had the free shipping & 5% discount after Black Friday. SARCO sent a MK3 kit by mistake, but it was demilled the same. Hopefully the proper kit they send me will be better, but these are demilled bad, bad, bad. Worst we've yet seen, bad. No barrels, no barrel parts (like gas block or the special flash hider) either. Supposedly SARCO is having new barrels made, at a discount for kit buyers, but who knows when/if that'll ever happen, or if they'll even be of good quality?

There is basically a cubic inch of metal missing at the corner above the barrel journal, with lots of critical surfaces that will have to be reproduced in a filler section, and spliced in precisely. At least the cut through the magwell doesn't totally jack-up the mag latch & locking shoulder area, but it does come dangerously close to those precious L4A3 mag-spacer mounting holes; if those are cut through, you might as well have bought a MKII kit and done the conversion yourself.

One thing that's nice, is that apparently the most damaged portion of the receiver is one that is basically identical across all the BREN versions, so you should be able to buy a demill chunk that was cut elsewhere (like an inch further back) and carve it down into your spacer, or use a larger piece as a 'bridge' between the L4A3 nose section & the magazine well.

The BREN's are a low-alloy mild steel (something like 1018 IIRC) so I understand you can cut-weld-grind, cut-weld-grind, cut-weld-grind until the cows come home or your argon tank runs out

600$ for a kit that's badly demilled & without barrel is a poor deal IMO, but BREN kits availability has been dropping rapidly, and prices are spiking upward for that and other reasons, so maybe this is just the new normal. The L4A3 is at least one of the cooler variants, and a lot more practical generally than the MKI (the coolest, especially w/ double-dovetails) due to the chambering and more lightweight build. I understand L4A3s have never been imported in any quantity before now (though judging from SARCO getting barrels made, we may soon be awash in them)

Buyers beware, SARCO has a love affair with packing peanuts for some idiot reason...

TCB

[T. O'Heir]

"...The receiver is torch cut..." Makes it a high priced paperweight. It's extremely difficult to fix that.

[dakota.potts]

Depends on the gun. All parts kits now have to be torch cut. ATF seized a bunch of saw cut CZ 26 kits after somebody got one and welded it back together.

There are welders rebuilding many parts kits guns that have been torch cut, including the SG-43 Goryunov, Suomi, and even several Ak type rifles. These are usually done with repair sections that are sold to re-weld the receiver.

Very challenging indeed and requiring some good welding skills, but a paperweight it is not.

Personally, I'd be interested in these if we do end up "awash" in parts kits and they end up cheap like the CETME and other kits. Right now, the cost is far too much for me even if receivers, barrels, and US parts were available. Cool guns though.

[kilimanjaro]

It's always amazed me that the BATFE would require these kind of arms be modified for what amounts to a totally unregulated market, instead of either requiring semi-auto conversion only like they did with the MG42s from Serbia, or, horror of horrors, addition to the full-auto registry. I know the registry is legally closed, but better to know what's what than not to know.

[dakota.potts]

The ATF has to work within the limits of the law, as they can only make executive decisions about how they enforce laws, they can't create new laws. However, they can require the receivers to be torch cut in order to meet the definition of demilitarized. Somehow, the barrels ended up being banned for import without being torch cut also, so prospective builders now have to replace both. It's my understanding that FAL kits would be a lot less expensive without those requirements.

[kilimanjaro]

I know that's how it works. All they have done is create the potential for a black market. Not smart.

[dakota.potts]

I'd personally rather they allow the parts kits to come in and give me a way to build them than restrict them only to semi auto built imports. There are a lot of firearms available to be built only because enterprising individuals worked up a semi-auto legal conversion, Some of those guns obviously haven't been profitable enough for importers to bring into the market, such as the VZ 26 and CETME L. Not to mention, SOT holders can legally rebuild the demilled guns into machine guns under certain conditions.

[barnbwt]

""...The receiver is torch cut..." Makes it a high priced paperweight. It's extremely difficult to fix that."
That's...kind of the point for a demilitarization process

"It's always amazed me that the BATFE would require these kind of arms be modified for what amounts to a totally unregulated market, instead of either requiring semi-auto conversion only like they did with the MG42s from Serbia, or, horror of horrors, addition to the full-auto registry"
It's always amazed me for the three years I've been in the gun building hobby, that for all the gnashing and wailing of the ATF, home made guns are hardly ever used in crimes, and when home made guns run afoul of the law, it is always in connection to far bigger troubles like organized crime or legally-dubious sting operations.

It all comes down to the regs being fundamentally unenforceable, and gun owners being legally-accommodating to a fault. Hell, just last week I spent a total of eight hours of my own free time explaining in detail to an ATF examiner exactly what/how/why I was doing for a home built SMG semi-auto, even though there is no legal burden to (although having explained my intent, I am now legally bound to follow it)

You can't stop Druggie Bubba from cutting down his rifle barrel, Biker Bubba from sawing down a shotgun, Poacher Bubba from making an oil filter silencer, Tinker Bubba from building a black-pipe STEN, or anyone else ambivalent about these laws from simply ignoring them. You can only punish them, but you can only do that when they first get on your radar for doing actual crimes. The kind with victims.

"The ATF has to work within the limits of the law, as they can only make executive decisions about how they enforce laws, they can't create new laws"
'Once a machine-gun, always a machine-gun'
'Once a rifle, always a rifle' (even SCOTUS took issue with this one)
'Constructive intent'
'Can be so-modified in a short period, with access to skilled labor and a full machine shop'
'Is redesigned in function through placement against the shoulder'
'Aids or assists in rapid fire'
Not one of these axioms of ATF authority exists anywhere in the laws they purport to operate within.

"However, they can require the receivers to be torch cut in order to meet the definition of demilitarized."
Yes. A single, thin, clean saw cut through a simple section of the gun, used to be considered sufficient. For decades, in fact. Then one day...it was no longer. The ATF can require that already imported, ATF-approved, and sold demills be confiscated at their order when they decide their previous destruction wasn't good enough (PPSHs/CZ26s), or require additional damage to already-sold goods without compensation (STEN MKIV's). Entire shipments of importer's wares have been seized upon phony pretenses ('readily convertible' airsoft M16s).

"Somehow, the barrels ended up being banned for import without being torch cut also"
And we can all thank George W. Bush for that one; only 'sporting' barrels may be imported. Receivers are banned in their entirety at this point; not even shredded pieces are allowed. I think that direction came during this administration (not sure how limiting the ATF's grasp to 'not readily convertible' can be legally squared with 'forbidden from import in any form' but no one's challenging them)

"so prospective builders now have to replace both. It's my understanding that FAL kits would be a lot less expensive without those requirements."
Well, they have to replace half the gun to meet the stupid 922R requirements anyway (even a historically/monetarily significant piece like my Hotchkiss Universal kit must be so molested as to possess no more than 10 foreign made parts, since the ATF recently decided after fifty years that SBRs are subject to 922r)

Oh well, at least the ATF is holding up their end 'enforcing the law' by keeping the Form 1 application approval times just under a year. Not like actually collecting taxes & issuing the tax-stamps in a timely manner is implicit in the enforcement structure laid out by the NFA

"I'd personally rather they allow the parts kits to come in and give me a way to build them than restrict them only to semi auto built imports"
There's two forces at play here; the ATF is the domestic side. They have literally no authority over anything that isn't a firearm receiver or bolted onto one. The State Department ultimately oversees the import restrictions, since Congress unwisely vested pretty all authority over foreign trade in the executive branch many years back. That's how Obama could ban a whole range of AK imports, how Bush could ban all barrel imports with a stroke of a pen, that's how Clinton banned Chicom/Russian firearm goods, how Old Bush banned all imports of 'assault rifles' leading directly to the '94 congressional AWB, and how Reagan banned import of newly-classified "armor piercing" ammunition like Carl Gustav 9mm steel-core. The ATF can 'identify' items as being ban-worthy for import, but State stamps the rejection & seizes the shipment.

TCB

[MoscowMike]

I completely agree about the price and headaches involved, but I'm getting ready to retire so I decided to buy myself another project. I'll just have to stretch out the expenses. There's this Martini build I want to do and a couple of .45s that need work, but the Bren has always fascinated me and I already reload for .308.

So - while I'm working on finding someone to do the machining I don't have the skills for I figured I would see about acquiring parts. I suspect that a donor receiver would save me money over having someone build the pieces which were torch cut too badly.

Here's one from IMA for $250. This one is from MGS for $70. Big price difference - is it worth it?

It was suggested that I find a welder first and see what they think, but I would hate to see these parts disappear in the meantime.

Any suggestions about a reliable builder?

Edit - Fixed MGS Link

[dakota.potts]

Both those links go to the same web page