Uh...I bought a safe - Page 2

Freakdaddy · September 3, 2010, 09:08 PM

Although I just bought a safe myself, I wouldn't dream of not having it bolted down. What I have in it costs way more then any hardwood flooring I may have to replace. I can understand not wanting to damage your flooring and if the possibility of flooding concerns you as well, you should really reconsider putting it in your closet. Let's face it, most of the gun safes we have are nothing more than Residential Security Containers and can be easily broken into given time and general tools. We get safes to secure our valuables but if we don't take measures to secure the safe, we've made it easier for the thief to access it. Although I personally don't know of anyone who has had their safe broken into or hauled off, here's a few links to sort through and you can make your own decision...but it has happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=171964

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=4454

General Safe buying info:

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html

http://www.sturdysafe.com/gaugethicknesswar.htm

http://mygunsafes.com/buying-gun-saf...safety-part-1/

http://www.brownsafe.com/categories/...on_Levels.html

rtpzwms · September 3, 2010, 10:18 PM

Siggygirl, although a little off from a safe, I do know of a 4000 lbs copier stolen from a business. It was in Van Nuys Ca. A fairly large city (part of LA). Since I was working for Xerox at the time and this was one of my accounts. I had to go and give the police the SN#. I have to tell you that I found it funny as he**. The crooks had driven a forklift right through the front doors. It took three trips and a semi to take this thing! They were gone before the police responded to the call. Just to let you know the alarm did work! I saw a lot of broken glass a pair of badly mangled doors and a BIG hole where there had been a copier! This copier was valued at 250,000.00 at the time. This was almost 25 years ago and I can still see the funny faces of the officers. The tire marks on the floor and the hole that was left with a BIG piece of equipment missing.

It never occurred to me that someone would ever steal a copier but they did. And it weighed quite a bit more than a 600 pound safe!

siggygirl · September 4, 2010, 12:42 AM

All right. I'm thinking about bolting it down. The alarm installation guy felt a little hinky to me. I didn't want to set my code in front of him. Cost/benefit ratio is low to replace a small portion of the hardwood floor.

Bagmup · September 4, 2010, 04:31 AM

Unfortunatly, rules in Australia say the safe HAS to be bolted securely to the premises and the method of fastening must not be accessable from outside the safe.
Also, police here have the power to inspect and fine you if it's found to be inadequate..at any time. So mines dyna bolted to the floor and coach bolted to the wall.

Freakdaddy · September 4, 2010, 05:52 AM

Quote:

All right. I'm thinking about bolting it down. The alarm installation guy felt a little hinky to me. I didn't want to set my code in front of him. Cost/benefit ratio is low to replace a small portion of the hardwood floor.

I'm glad to hear that. I think you'll have greater peace of mind in the long run by doing this.

JT-AR-MG42 · September 4, 2010, 07:58 AM

Bolting the safe in two directions is the way to go if possible. You are buying valuable time with your effort to make the safe harder to move. Time is the worst enemy to the thief.

You might also consider spray painting the interior white if it is not already. Or have the safe guy do it for you before delivery. Makes digging around in it much handier if the exterior lighting is not ideal.

I am suprised 'the alarm guy' would not have walked you through the code setting with the tact to remove himself from the actual event. Sounds rather unprofessional.

With respect to your safe dealer, I would concern myself with MY safe being taken, not whether others have been or not. It is not in his best interest to tell you that unbolted safes are simply removed with an appliance handtruck the same way they are put in. It only takes the one time.

Just my .02, JT

schutzen · September 4, 2010, 08:36 AM

There are several reasons to bolt a safe to the floor/wall. The most obvious is to enahance security and yes, I am aware of several cases where medium to large safes have been stolen intact and opened elsewhere. The other most common reason is to prevent tipping over, much like an earthquake strap on a water heater. Many of you will say, "I do not live in an earthquake area." That may be true, but all safes can be climbed on, or levered away from the wall by persons not intending to steal it. This particualrly applies to children.

I have tried the fire issue, the safe worked well. Paper documents were discolored, but still usable and legible. The guns in the safe were not damaged, but my safe did not fall from the 1st floor to a basement.

Construction wise, houses should generally be able to support 75 lbs per square foot anywhere in the house and 100 lbs per square foot near the outer walls.

oneounceload · September 4, 2010, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Is there any chance that the safe purchase could knock off a buck or two in homeowners insurance rates? Anybody else ever ask?

You won't get rates reduced, but since most policies only cover about $2500, what are the values of the guns? My agent basically told me with a RSC I was in essence, self-insuring my guns.

If your guns are worth a lot more, Collectibles, Inc is one company that insures all kinds of collections for reasonable rates

siggygirl · September 4, 2010, 01:59 PM

I'll check my policy on Tuesday. And thanks for the link for possible additional insurance. I was thinking about putting in some of those battery powered stick to the wall push lights on top. It'll be in a well lit room but I'm imagining this safe will somehow be attached to my whole gun habit. That means I'll have to tweak it and shine it and clean it and look at it a lot, etc. Know what I mean?

If I painted the interior white, I'd be upset when it got gunked up.

The earthquake info is actually pertinent and useful, as is the "not dropping down a level for fire" info. Also, the footprint info confirmed what the safe guy said. When I asked the guy how long it would take to bring it in, he said "with a dolly, about 10 minutes," so I did the math after watching the YouTube links. Thanks to those posters.

Freakdaddy · September 4, 2010, 02:29 PM

For lights, I highly recommend Rite Lite by the Lancer & Loader Group and the model # is LPL623. They come with both fitted velcro or a screw to use for mounting. I would recommend the screw method as this makes it easier to remove when replacing batteries (each light runs on 3 AAA batteries) plus you don't have to ever worry about the fabric sagging and pulling away from the shelves. They pivot 30 degrees and have two pre-set points that click in place so when you turn them on (push button in center) or if you bump them, they won't change their direction of output. They also rotate 360 degrees as well. Here's a link:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...5&ddkey=Search

Also, here's a link I posted when I bought my safe showing them. The pictures don't do them justice as they really are bright and you'd be very pleased with them.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421423

nogo · September 4, 2010, 11:13 PM

Often locksmiths deliver such heavy items because many sell large safes, and these folks can do a nice job bolting safe to floor. Yes, sometimes people will steal safes by moving them if they have the skill and equipment.

Remember that when a house with basement burns, the floors above will crash down into the basement and completely roast any safe there along with contents.

SQUAREKNOT · September 6, 2010, 07:48 PM

Flooding is a major concern as insurance may not cover your guns or safe. How about tornados? A safe on the main floor in a tornado will be gone. A few years ago thieves took a huge safe from the back of the store and rolled it out of the building and jacked it into a truck. The safe was sitting on a tiled concrete floor. They used dish soap as a lube and slid the thing right out the door by pulling it with a rope.
I would use the basement and let it sit on a 4 x 4 wood frame (pallet?) You can cover the wood with carpet.
I would also strongly suggest a second safe-put it in your bedroom and fill it with some loose coins and weights. They will always try take the small safe.
I heard on guy had his filled with silver salutes or M-80 fire crackers. The thieves used a torch-very dead thieves. With some luck they might pinch off a few fingers stealing the bait safe

TheGoldenState · September 6, 2010, 08:05 PM

COngratz on the Cannon. I have two. My big boy is 1050lbs empty so i put it, and its 600+lb counterpart in my downstairs office. Not bolted, but the backs are to walls and cornered, so in the unlikely event that one could tip it, the safes could only fall frontward onto the doors. Cannon makes an awesome safe, looks like a piece of furniture

siggygirl · September 22, 2010, 03:58 PM

I told ya'll I'd let you know when I found out about the insurance stuff. This is the gist of what I was told by my insurance rep:

Insurance companies vary on firearms related issues. So good to check with each type you have, with each company. Mine happens to be with a particularly firearms friendly company. PM me if you want the name. I have maybe 5 types of insurance through them.

Homeowners, no discount for safe. All property in the house (and car) including safe, firearms, and firearms related materials (ie: ammo) are covered under the property contents piece of my policy. I assessed my value and am still within those limits easily. Just need to keep records of my larger purchases in case of problem. Firearms stolen from car are covered here as well, if I ever happen to leave my firearm in my car

Umbrella, or personal liability: I'm covered in a civil suit involving firearms provided it's not an obvious criminal offense (I decide to shoot someone for non-self defense purposes).

Professional: Still covered for civil defense and any professional related issues including use of firearms provided they aren't obviously criminal.

Business property liability: (AKA slip and fall in my office), no additional loss or gain for safe or firearm, no changes.

Auto: N/A because gun issues would be covered under homeowner's or umbrella.

Hope that helps others who have insurance or something to lose assess their financial risk and close holes if possible.

The safe is great BTW.

General P. · September 25, 2010, 11:50 PM

I installed a 75 gal. fish tank and additional floor joist (2x12) but the floor still sagged a little with the 800 pound load. Would never put that load on upper floor again. If down the basement, thieves would have a more difficult time getting the safe up the stairs than down from upper floor, or right out the door in your case. If you have any portion of outside grade elevation at outside wall below the basement level, just have drain added to the outside; you might have this already and not know it.

And place the safe on a platform in the basement to protect from rust causing dampness from the concrete.

Flooding from the outside elements should not be an issue unless you are below flood grade or have a local landscape problem that needs fixing. If from a broken water pipe, this can be a problem but can be solved by the drain to the outside, or if not possible, a water level control (float switch) that actuates an electric solenoid valve on the main supply in your basement. This type of float switch (and function) is common to air conditioners with the evaporator unit in the basement and is quite cheap.

Oops, looks like I am too late in comments.

10-96 · September 26, 2010, 05:08 PM

Siggy, Thanks for that info! You rock!

IXLR8 · September 26, 2010, 07:11 PM

Remember it starts out at 600 lbs. After you put a couple thousand rounds in it, and your collection, it will probably double in weight. Make sure you have plenty of extra weight capacity to spare.

Diabolus · October 1, 2010, 08:05 PM

Good on ya for getting a safe. I made the same decision a while ago and leave the house knowing stuff is going to be protected.

siggygirl · October 1, 2010, 08:14 PM

Currently, I'm not putting the ammo in the safe. Just guns, money, and other things I don't want a BG to walk off with. He can walk off with ammo if he wants but it's a lot of work to get into my house nowadays and he'd be disappointed I bet. I haven't regretted the safe buy. I worried it would encourage more gun buying but it did not. Now I'm just nuts with the holsters. Geesh those holsters multiple more quickly than the guns. I have more holsters than I have shoes.

September 4, 2010, 08:36 AM	#32
schutzen Member Join Date: January 5, 2006 Location: Far Western Kentucky Posts: 78	Bolting There are several reasons to bolt a safe to the floor/wall. The most obvious is to enahance security and yes, I am aware of several cases where medium to large safes have been stolen intact and opened elsewhere. The other most common reason is to prevent tipping over, much like an earthquake strap on a water heater. Many of you will say, "I do not live in an earthquake area." That may be true, but all safes can be climbed on, or levered away from the wall by persons not intending to steal it. This particualrly applies to children. I have tried the fire issue, the safe worked well. Paper documents were discolored, but still usable and legible. The guns in the safe were not damaged, but my safe did not fall from the 1st floor to a basement. Construction wise, houses should generally be able to support 75 lbs per square foot anywhere in the house and 100 lbs per square foot near the outer walls.

September 6, 2010, 08:05 PM	#38
TheGoldenState Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 1,191	COngratz on the Cannon. I have two. My big boy is 1050lbs empty so i put it, and its 600+lb counterpart in my downstairs office. Not bolted, but the backs are to walls and cornered, so in the unlikely event that one could tip it, the safes could only fall frontward onto the doors. Cannon makes an awesome safe, looks like a piece of furniture __________________ The Day You Get Comfortable Is The Day You Get Careless...

September 22, 2010, 03:58 PM	#39
siggygirl Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 236	Update on insurance info I told ya'll I'd let you know when I found out about the insurance stuff. This is the gist of what I was told by my insurance rep: Insurance companies vary on firearms related issues. So good to check with each type you have, with each company. Mine happens to be with a particularly firearms friendly company. PM me if you want the name. I have maybe 5 types of insurance through them. Homeowners, no discount for safe. All property in the house (and car) including safe, firearms, and firearms related materials (ie: ammo) are covered under the property contents piece of my policy. I assessed my value and am still within those limits easily. Just need to keep records of my larger purchases in case of problem. Firearms stolen from car are covered here as well, if I ever happen to leave my firearm in my car Umbrella, or personal liability: I'm covered in a civil suit involving firearms provided it's not an obvious criminal offense (I decide to shoot someone for non-self defense purposes). Professional: Still covered for civil defense and any professional related issues including use of firearms provided they aren't obviously criminal. Business property liability: (AKA slip and fall in my office), no additional loss or gain for safe or firearm, no changes. Auto: N/A because gun issues would be covered under homeowner's or umbrella. Hope that helps others who have insurance or something to lose assess their financial risk and close holes if possible. The safe is great BTW.

September 25, 2010, 11:50 PM	#40
General P. Member Join Date: September 29, 2005 Posts: 20	I installed a 75 gal. fish tank and additional floor joist (2x12) but the floor still sagged a little with the 800 pound load. Would never put that load on upper floor again. If down the basement, thieves would have a more difficult time getting the safe up the stairs than down from upper floor, or right out the door in your case. If you have any portion of outside grade elevation at outside wall below the basement level, just have drain added to the outside; you might have this already and not know it. And place the safe on a platform in the basement to protect from rust causing dampness from the concrete. Flooding from the outside elements should not be an issue unless you are below flood grade or have a local landscape problem that needs fixing. If from a broken water pipe, this can be a problem but can be solved by the drain to the outside, or if not possible, a water level control (float switch) that actuates an electric solenoid valve on the main supply in your basement. This type of float switch (and function) is common to air conditioners with the evaporator unit in the basement and is quite cheap. Oops, looks like I am too late in comments. Last edited by General P.; September 25, 2010 at 11:55 PM.

September 26, 2010, 05:08 PM	#41
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,160	Siggy, Thanks for that info! You rock! __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

September 3, 2010, 09:08 PM	#26
Freakdaddy Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2006 Posts: 442	Although I just bought a safe myself, I wouldn't dream of not having it bolted down. What I have in it costs way more then any hardwood flooring I may have to replace. I can understand not wanting to damage your flooring and if the possibility of flooding concerns you as well, you should really reconsider putting it in your closet. Let's face it, most of the gun safes we have are nothing more than Residential Security Containers and can be easily broken into given time and general tools. We get safes to secure our valuables but if we don't take measures to secure the safe, we've made it easier for the thief to access it. Although I personally don't know of anyone who has had their safe broken into or hauled off, here's a few links to sort through and you can make your own decision...but it has happened. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=171964 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=4454 General Safe buying info: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html http://www.sturdysafe.com/gaugethicknesswar.htm http://mygunsafes.com/buying-gun-saf...safety-part-1/ http://www.brownsafe.com/categories/...on_Levels.html

September 3, 2010, 10:18 PM	#27
rtpzwms Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2010 Location: OTS Posts: 1,035	Siggygirl, although a little off from a safe, I do know of a 4000 lbs copier stolen from a business. It was in Van Nuys Ca. A fairly large city (part of LA). Since I was working for Xerox at the time and this was one of my accounts. I had to go and give the police the SN#. I have to tell you that I found it funny as he**. The crooks had driven a forklift right through the front doors. It took three trips and a semi to take this thing! They were gone before the police responded to the call. Just to let you know the alarm did work! I saw a lot of broken glass a pair of badly mangled doors and a BIG hole where there had been a copier! This copier was valued at 250,000.00 at the time. This was almost 25 years ago and I can still see the funny faces of the officers. The tire marks on the floor and the hole that was left with a BIG piece of equipment missing. It never occurred to me that someone would ever steal a copier but they did. And it weighed quite a bit more than a 600 pound safe!

September 4, 2010, 12:42 AM	#28
siggygirl Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 236	All right. I'm thinking about bolting it down. The alarm installation guy felt a little hinky to me. I didn't want to set my code in front of him. Cost/benefit ratio is low to replace a small portion of the hardwood floor.

September 4, 2010, 04:31 AM	#29
Bagmup Member Join Date: August 7, 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 56	Unfortunatly, rules in Australia say the safe HAS to be bolted securely to the premises and the method of fastening must not be accessable from outside the safe. Also, police here have the power to inspect and fine you if it's found to be inadequate..at any time. So mines dyna bolted to the floor and coach bolted to the wall.

September 4, 2010, 07:58 AM	#31
JT-AR-MG42 Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 555	Bolting the safe in two directions is the way to go if possible. You are buying valuable time with your effort to make the safe harder to move. Time is the worst enemy to the thief. You might also consider spray painting the interior white if it is not already. Or have the safe guy do it for you before delivery. Makes digging around in it much handier if the exterior lighting is not ideal. I am suprised 'the alarm guy' would not have walked you through the code setting with the tact to remove himself from the actual event. Sounds rather unprofessional. With respect to your safe dealer, I would concern myself with MY safe being taken, not whether others have been or not. It is not in his best interest to tell you that unbolted safes are simply removed with an appliance handtruck the same way they are put in. It only takes the one time. Just my .02, JT

September 4, 2010, 01:59 PM	#34
siggygirl Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 236	I'll check my policy on Tuesday. And thanks for the link for possible additional insurance. I was thinking about putting in some of those battery powered stick to the wall push lights on top. It'll be in a well lit room but I'm imagining this safe will somehow be attached to my whole gun habit. That means I'll have to tweak it and shine it and clean it and look at it a lot, etc. Know what I mean? If I painted the interior white, I'd be upset when it got gunked up. The earthquake info is actually pertinent and useful, as is the "not dropping down a level for fire" info. Also, the footprint info confirmed what the safe guy said. When I asked the guy how long it would take to bring it in, he said "with a dolly, about 10 minutes," so I did the math after watching the YouTube links. Thanks to those posters.

September 4, 2010, 02:29 PM	#35
Freakdaddy Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2006 Posts: 442	For lights, I highly recommend Rite Lite by the Lancer & Loader Group and the model # is LPL623. They come with both fitted velcro or a screw to use for mounting. I would recommend the screw method as this makes it easier to remove when replacing batteries (each light runs on 3 AAA batteries) plus you don't have to ever worry about the fabric sagging and pulling away from the shelves. They pivot 30 degrees and have two pre-set points that click in place so when you turn them on (push button in center) or if you bump them, they won't change their direction of output. They also rotate 360 degrees as well. Here's a link: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...5&ddkey=Search Also, here's a link I posted when I bought my safe showing them. The pictures don't do them justice as they really are bright and you'd be very pleased with them. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421423

September 4, 2010, 11:13 PM	#36
nogo Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2009 Location: central texas Posts: 215	Often locksmiths deliver such heavy items because many sell large safes, and these folks can do a nice job bolting safe to floor. Yes, sometimes people will steal safes by moving them if they have the skill and equipment. Remember that when a house with basement burns, the floors above will crash down into the basement and completely roast any safe there along with contents.

September 6, 2010, 07:48 PM	#37
SQUAREKNOT Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Posts: 263	Flooding is a major concern as insurance may not cover your guns or safe. How about tornados? A safe on the main floor in a tornado will be gone. A few years ago thieves took a huge safe from the back of the store and rolled it out of the building and jacked it into a truck. The safe was sitting on a tiled concrete floor. They used dish soap as a lube and slid the thing right out the door by pulling it with a rope. I would use the basement and let it sit on a 4 x 4 wood frame (pallet?) You can cover the wood with carpet. I would also strongly suggest a second safe-put it in your bedroom and fill it with some loose coins and weights. They will always try take the small safe. I heard on guy had his filled with silver salutes or M-80 fire crackers. The thieves used a torch-very dead thieves. With some luck they might pinch off a few fingers stealing the bait safe

September 26, 2010, 07:11 PM	#42
IXLR8 Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2009 Posts: 107	Remember it starts out at 600 lbs. After you put a couple thousand rounds in it, and your collection, it will probably double in weight. Make sure you have plenty of extra weight capacity to spare.

October 1, 2010, 08:05 PM	#43
Diabolus Junior Member Join Date: June 27, 2006 Posts: 5	Good on ya for getting a safe. I made the same decision a while ago and leave the house knowing stuff is going to be protected.

October 1, 2010, 08:14 PM	#44
siggygirl Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 236	Currently, I'm not putting the ammo in the safe. Just guns, money, and other things I don't want a BG to walk off with. He can walk off with ammo if he wants but it's a lot of work to get into my house nowadays and he'd be disappointed I bet. I haven't regretted the safe buy. I worried it would encourage more gun buying but it did not. Now I'm just nuts with the holsters. Geesh those holsters multiple more quickly than the guns. I have more holsters than I have shoes.