News Examples

[kmw1954]

Here is another fine example of just what we are up against on a daily basis. This story was prominently displayed on Yahoo news and of course was put out by Bloomberg News Stating we all want more gun control laws!

I especially enjoyed reading the comments section. Enjoy

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/5413b28...icter-gun.html

[DaleA]

the extremes to which the community that worships guns in a quasi-religious fashion will go to absolve their deity of any responsibility for negative results.

This is from the article you linked to in post #1.

Wow.

Do most gun owners worship guns or regard them as inanimate objects that can be used for good or evil?

I'm suspecting it would be hard to have a "discussion" with the authors of this piece about gun control.

I was surprised there were pro-gun comments and pro-NRA comments to this article.

I was NOT surprised that the comments section quickly devolved into name calling and the "no you are" and "no YOU are" stupidity that marks the comments section of most controversial articles, not just gun control.

[Aguila Blanca]

So now they're claiming "more than" 150 mass shooting in the United States this year. I'd better get crackin ' -- my humble database only shows fourteen, and that included the Annapolis newspaper shooting.

Of course, the devil is in the details. The article says more than 150 mass shootings. If you follow the link, it takes you to a map charting "gun violence incidents." Then follow another link to details of the claimed 154 "mass shootings," and we find that they count gang-related drive-by shootings and a variety of other type incidents that most people would not classify as mass shootings.

[Pahoo]

Do most gun owners worship guns or regard them as inanimate objects that can be used for good or evil?

Of course and two years ago, I went to a meeting where they showed a documentary movie where the narrated said;

"Most gun owners worship their gun, more than they worship Jesus."


Make a long story short, we were asked for comments after the movie and could not keep my mouth shut but was Christian about it ……

Obviously there are many antis out there that strongly believe this way !!!

Be Safe !!!

[5whiskey]

Shaking my head... At least one of the contributors seemed to offer something a little more classy than an opinionated rant. John Bernstein is obviously not pro-gun, but he is at least realistic in some of his analysis...

I'm hardly an expert on the substance here, but I wonder whether Democrats really have a well-thought-out agenda for when they have a chance to implement it, or just a bunch of feel-good, poll-tested stuff that will have limited effects.

Although less so in other aspects...

It's always been difficult with guns, because it's always been a classic case of an intense minority against a relatively indifferent majority

That's not at all true. I take particular issue with the bold. The Gallup poll graph in that article shows drastic increases in the public clamor for gun control. Here's the problem... for every poll that shows a desire for gun control, there are polls that don't. I read some of Gallup's survey questions, and I must cede that some are specific... but some are vague and disingenuous. For example, the "Universal Background Check" phrase does nothing to explain that Background Checks are already a staple law. And since "Universal Background Checks" is such a common political football, we all know full well the citizen ignorant on guns and the law pertaining to them assume that background checks are not already near universal. We know here that they are. Only in private sales are they not performed, but even then many states require a purchase permit... and along with that goes a background check. Better yet, many sellers prefer to see a CCH or go through an FFL for a private sale just to be sure of the buyer's legality. Background checks are pretty much already universal. While I'm piling on with details, I would like to remind everyone that this article relied on a Gallup survey... Gallup, the company that tanked it's accuracy in 3 elections back to back so bad that they decided to stop doing horse race polling for candidates and elections.

So I reject that gun owners are a minority. And there are some good polls to support this falsehood.

One more particular topic. If you notice, all of the "gun control" polling almost always is conducted in the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting that garners national attention. Obviously pro-gun control numbers will spike in said environment due to emotion. If you give it a few months, everything usually settles back to normal.

[TomNJVA]

Polls are like studies - a dime a dozen. Pick any position and you can find polls or studies to back you. Of course if you look objectively you'll also fine polls or studies to counter your position. Not a problem for those fixed in a position, just don't search, rationalize them, or ignore them. Draw your curve then plot your points!

I had to stop reading Yahoo news. The left bias is profound in the stories they select, the sources they quote, and wording of the headlines. I kept finding myself muttering at the screen.

[kmw1954]

I will state that I appreciate everyone's comments and insight. I have gained some new views of this subject from reading these comments.

The one talking point that always grabs me the wrong way is about the NRA. Regardless of anyone views of the NRA the NRA is still each and every one of it's members, all of differing races, religions, sexes and political beliefs. All with a common goal and interest.

[Evan Thomas]

Moved to General Discussion. This isn't really an L&CR topic, since it's more about journalism and public opinion than about legal issues.

[Tom Servo]

So now they're claiming "more than" 150 mass shooting in the United States this year.

That was a concerted effort by a guy named Brock Weller, who runs a particularly toxic anti-gun forum on Reddit (serious language at that link, folks). He started an archive known as the mass shooting tracker. He has people scour news reports for shootings with multiple injuries (not fatalities), which he classifies as "mass shootings." In some cases, the "shootings" were reports of shots fired with no injuries. In other cases, they were "shootings" done with pellet guns, negligent discharges by school security officers...the list goes on.

After Sandy Hook, he gave the media exactly what they wanted, which was the claim we've had a mass shooting every day in this country since then. Never mind the corrupt data or the fact he moved the very goal posts for how we define "mass shooting." He was able to back a spurious narrative with numbers, and that's all sciency, right?

Despite being roundly refuted, to the point Mother Jones advised people not to trust it, the shooting tracker would be a valuable rhetorical device for politicians up to and including the President. It's easy because it makes for a good soundbite, and most people won't actually check the numbers.

[blackwidowp61]

The questions in ANY poll can be slanted in any way that you want, and almost all questions are. It would be almost impossible to find a poll that was truly unbiased in this country. Why run a poll if it doesn't support your/your clients views on the topic chosen? And if the results aren't slanted the way you want, you just bury it and try again.

[riffraff]

I don't think it's necessarily related to the point of gun laws but gun owners are a minority from anything I've read - seems like they throw around "100 million" quite a bit, roughly 1/3.. Sure it's a large minority.

On an aside, the very shameful thing is only about 5 million people are NRA members - not familiar with the other organizations out there but with the NRA being the largest it is very ridiculous - that's only like 5% of gun owners, sad. Imagine if everyone who owned a gun, or half even, were NRA members. That would give us a lot more credit politically.

Now - given nobody really knows, hey it's possible the stat is much higher, kinda like when they make arguments that 3% of the gun owners own 90% of the guns or whatever stupid stat that is they use (basically instead of admitting black rifles are extremely popular and so well distributed they are as common as bread & milk, they try to make it sound like a few nut jobs own all those guns so new gun bans only really impact a handful of strange people ).

[DaleA]

And then there's this statistic that's being bandied about:

"The US has approximately 5% of the world's population and 42% of civilian gun ownership." Pricey Harrison who is in the North Carolina House of Representatives.

http://www.politifact.com/north-caro...t-worlds-guns/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1JE220

The Reuters story estimates there's about 857 million guns in civilian hands in the world...seems a little low to me.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

In some cases, the "shootings" were reports of shots fired with no injuries. In other cases, they were "shootings" done with pellet guns

Well, if that’s the criteria, I can assure you there was a mass shooting with pellet guns practically every day when I was a child. Some with injury even... And then the very same victims/perpetrators would be back at it again the next day.

Originally Posted by riffraff

On an aside, the very shameful thing is only about 5 million people are NRA members - not familiar with the other organizations out there but with the NRA being the largest it is very ridiculous - that's only like 5% of gun owners, sad.

Not that the percentages aren’t still sad; but NRA announced back in April or May that they had passed the six million mark. That’s two million members added since 2013, which is a big upward tick on the growth rate.

[riffraff]

Dale - that statistic does not surprise me one bit either, the US is fairly special given our constitution and history. Again I don't think it's a valid point really - gun culture is strong here and is not an elite sport rather from the poor to the ultra rich there are many who enjoy gun ownership.

And then: Of course we have most of the guns! It's the freakin US, we probably also have some disproportionate number of nearly everything you can own privately including but not limited to cars and boats and bathrooms in our houses, TV's and phones and pets and the list goes on and on.

[Tom Servo]

The US has approximately 5% of the world's population and 42% of civilian gun ownership.

Only 42%? Guys, we need to get those numbers up

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts

Well, if that’s the criteria, I can assure you there was a mass shooting with pellet guns practically every day when I was a child. Some with injury even... And then the very same victims/perpetrators would be back at it again the next day.

Heh, heh. Not a "mass shooting," but ...

Now that you mention it, I guess I'm a shooting "victim," too. For one of my birthdays (10th, I think), I was given a daisy Model 25 BB rifle. My birthday falls in February, and I grew up in rural New England. Nevertheless, my father, brother and I muffled up, went outdoors, and tacked a target onto a telephone pole at the edge of our property. I took aim, fired, ... and felt something hit my chest.

Right -- nobody had warned us that steel BBs tend to bounce when they strike hard objects -- and whatever wood they use for telephone poles is fairly hard at 20 degrees Fahrenheit.

[44 AMP]

A couple decades ago, anti-gunner's statistics about "death of a child due to a handgun" were exposed as including anyone under the age of 25 as a "child", and accidents, suicides, deliberate murder, gang shooting, and even the people the police shot during arrests were all counted together, to inflate the figure.

A few years ago, the FBI's criteria for a mass murder were 4 people KILLED. Not sure what they are using today.

Various private pollsters have changed KILLED to shot, and it seems now that 2 or more people SHOT AT, now qualifies as a mass shooting to them.

With those criteria (and probably also including people the police shoot, or shoot at) then, yes, we do have a "mass shooting" every day.

If you set your criteria low enough ("shot at" ect.), you can get a mass shooting everyday from police shootings, alone....


and so can nearly every other nation on earth...

[BobCat45]

Well, if the subject is "News Examples" then this one may belong here.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...702-story.html

The headline says "Lake deputy shoots gator with AR-15, freeing girl trapped in tree" - so depending on how you value gators versus girls in trees, this one might be construed as supportive to 'our side' of the story. It was a deputy, not an ordinary citizen, but still an AR-15.

And the gator did not have the AR-15, the deputy did.

[Gary L. Griffiths]

And the gator did not have the AR-15, the deputy did.

Good thing! Otherwise it might have been very dicey!

[Chainsaw.]

Can we collectively sew Bloomberg for his lies and for attacking out rights? I'd be willing to put up some real money to see him loose his butt.

[std7mag]

Wait!!
154 mass shootings? What is the criteria, exactly?
And this with over 250 "school" shootings this year.