How much difference does a good trigger make?

[Mobuck]

I did a test fire on a freshly assembled AR last week. It was an "econo" grade but I expected at least MOA with one or more of the proven ammo I have in stock. After some serious work, I found some ammo that approached that MOA but felt compromised by the "crunch and drag" trigger.
Feeling a bit put off, I swapped the lower for a well used A2 with a single stage match trigger and tried again this morning. No problem at all getting .5 MOA.
The upper and optic were the same, but I did do a minor cleaning using less than 10 patches. The major diff was the trigger.

[Sharkbite]

The origional “mil-spec” trigger was NOT designed for precision shooting. It WAS made to offer a safe trigger to basically trained “Mil-spec” personnel.

I build all my AR’s with crisp single stage drop in’s.

[Nathan]

That is a huge difference for you. I would guess it would make less difference for me...maybe .25-.4 MOA. Might make a bigger difference....I replace triggers more as a confidence builder, I guess.

What was the match grade trigger?

[marine6680]

A different lower could affect things as well... The timing and cycling will be different, and can affect the harmonics.

But a particularly bad milspec trigger can make getting good groups more difficult for sure. You just have to work so much harder to get a clean pull,and that affects the amount of concentration you can divert to other aspects of good shooting.

[fourbore]

For me, triggers matter. It matters off the bench and becomes much more dramatic as I move progressively too more challenging positions.

[imashooter]

It can make a significant difference regardless of target and can be a major influence reacquiring or whacking a follow-up target. This applies especially to those indiviuals who do not have thousands upon thousands of rounds down-range with a mil-spec trigger. But even if you do, a quality aftermarket trigger is second only to a quality barrel imo.

We're so spoiled now. Just about any spec to a trigger assembly tailored to your wants, needs, and desires. USA! USA! .......

[pblanc]

They make a big difference for me.

[TXAZ]

A predictable / consistent weapon, of which the trigger is a critical component in the release of the projetile, is a major factor in hitting or missing a target, particularly once you get beyond 'short' distances.

I had my Barrett trigger worked on to where it was significantly more consistent. The results in improved accuracy were measurable.

[stagpanther]

You just have to work so much harder to get a clean pull

That's it right there. If a weapon can shoot .5 with a good trigger--it can also do it with a heavy pull one--but it's going to be more challenging cause you'll have to compensate for the increased leverage forces, timing concentration etc. But it can be done--not necessarily saying I can do it.

[Art Eatman]

Tight groups with bad triggers are possible when at the bench rest, although much more concentration is needed. It's in the field where a really good trigger makes the difference between a hit and a miss.

[kymasabe]

Gritty mil-spec triggers don't work for me, I swap them out almost immediately. Right now I'm running a Hiperfire EDT SS on my light carbine, and the EDT HG on my latest Ballistic Advantage build. A gritty trigger with a ton of creep is too distracting to me. In a combat situation, I probably wouldn't care, but at the range just bugs the crap out a me.

[ed308]

All of my AR have good triggers. Without switching out the trigger, I've never been able to consistently shoot sub MOA. Same for a free float barrel too. Both are a must for a sub MOA AR IMO.

[stagpanther]

I can do pretty well--sub MOA when I concentrate--with a good basic trigger like PSA's EPT. Being a bit of a clumsy dolt when scrambling around in the field and woods I generally don't like my field triggers to be anything under 4.5 lbs.

[bfoosh006]

Also a heavy gritty AR trigger can be exhausting to use when shooting for precision.

( I know, man up... but.. )

WAY to much attention spent on pulling it.

[marine6680]

Yeah... In the end, there are many factors that account for good shooting.

Breathing, heart rate, shooting position sight/scope alignment, cheek weld, trigger pull.

With practice, many aspects become fairly ingrained and active concentration on that aspect diminishes.

But throw in a wrench like a very heavy and gritty trigger with a lot of creep... Well that takes most of your focus, and other aspects suffer.


I can do pretty well with a milspec trigger... But if it is a particularly bad example, then it gets very hard to do well.

A good milspec trigger like the ALG option, they are not too bad though. They do need a little more concentration, but are still very usable.

[Mobuck]

"What was the match grade trigger?"

Not sure, maybe a JP. I bought a lot of stuff years ago when it was cheaper and swapped parts here and there so sort of lost track of brand names.

[CDR_Glock]

For me, the trigger is the interface with the gun. It helps with precision, accuracy and confidence.

I have several Elftmann Competition triggers installed. Yes, it makes a difference.


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[RickB]

I'd rather have a three-minute gun with a great trigger than a one-minute gun with a bad one, as I could shoot the former closer to its capability, while I'd be cursing the latter and shooting no better.

[Rangerrich99]

Not that I'm any kind of expert, but I've put in my time in the last five or so years with ARs at the range, in the field and at a few classes, so I feel I've got a (very) little to say on this subject.

What I've come to feel is that if you're shooting at relatively short distances (for me that's at/under 100 yards) at paper/steel targets or something similar (I shoot at empty 1-pound propane bottles irregularly), then even mil-spec triggers are adequate to the task.

At long ranges or varmint hunting in the field (i.e., shooting at small moving targets), mil-spec triggers are more of a hindrance than help. In my experience, I found that mil-spec triggers are so heavy and gritty that trying to be precise beyond about 200 yards is almost futile. It requires so much concentration and attention to perfect mechanics all the while knowing your prey is apt to move at any moment, that I'd miss more often than not. This more than anything convinced me to install a highly-reviewed aftermarket trigger into my varmint AR. The result was that I went from hitting 10-15 p-dogs per day to 30-40 per day the following weekend.

For classwork, again dependent on range but also body position, target difficulty, etc. I can make a mil-spec trigger work, but a good/great trigger makes everything easier, and consequently boosts my confidence. Which in turn makes me a better shot.

To a certain extent, I believe the same holds true with handguns, but that's for another thread.

[44 AMP]

Of course everyone is a little different but it has been an article of faith among shooters (and gunwriters) for longer than I have been alive (and probably a couple times over) that most people can shoot more accurately with crappy sights and a good trigger than they can with good sights and a crappy trigger.

[FrankenMauser]

A good trigger makes all the difference in the world, in the average AR.

I always shoot better with a better trigger. Clearly, that says something about me - that I'm doing something wrong. But that's reality. Good parts make up for some of my inadequacies and sloppy technique; even though the majority of my rifles do have heavy, nasty factory triggers (whether civilian or military).

The only real exception is when I mate one of my crappy lowers with a 'mil-spec' trigger with my 6x45mm upper. That upper, alone, is over 9 lbs. Add the lower, usually a bipod, and a brass catcher, and it's well over 13 lb.
At that point, I can still shoot it fairly well with a less-than-ideal trigger, simply because the weight is keeping it still.
...But I do still shoot it better with a good trigger.

My LaRue MBT just shipped. That'll make one more lower able to help compensate for my deficiencies...

[Don Fischer]

I like a trigger at three pounds, that's where most of mine are. But I think the secret to good shooting is more trigger control than anything else. How in the world did the old Savage 110 get the reputation for accuracy it had with the trigger it had? Trigger control! Of my trigger's my least favorite is a Timminy, only after market one I have and no clear directions on how to install it, never have another custom. My mod 70 came at 5# and worked fine but I redid it to 3# and it still works fine. All my mod 700's are reworked to 3# and no problem's at all. Two Mossberg Patriot's came at 2 1/2# and not a problem one.But my favorite trigger in on my custom 1903 did in 1945. Still has the two stage military trigger in it. Lot's of take up and lot's of over travel but was cleaned up really nice. With the take up and over travel and smooth break I'm not sure you could jerk that rifle if you tried! Best trigger I have ever used!

[hdwhit]

All of my shooting is done off-hand at targets that are never more than 225 meters away (usually 100 meters or less). Once I get used to it, I have found just about any trigger is sufficient for that kind of shooting.

From what I see at the public ranges - people barely able to get on paper at 100 yards shooting from a bench - a "good" trigger isn't going to make a difference for the vast majority of shooters.

If I was shooting off a bench at long distances or shooting for precision, I might feel differently.

[Rob228]

I've definitely used a trigger job as an excuse to compensate for lack of skill on occasion, but a good trigger certainly makes shooting more enjoyable.

For some reason this thread brought back an old memory. I was at the Boy Scout National Jamboree in 1996 and the pellet guns they had there had a trigger that was the worst thing I have ever felt. I recall seeing a box for one of them and it said (this is memory, so I m probably off on the poundage but this is what I remember) "Ultra-safe 30 pound trigger". Fairly certain it was a Crossman of some sorts.

[FrankenMauser]

I've definitely used a trigger job as an excuse to compensate for lack of skill on occasion, but a good trigger certainly makes shooting more enjoyable.

That's for certain, and reminded me of a recent experience.

A while back, I picked up a Ruger 77 Mk II in 7x57mm; but hadn't had much opportunity to test it.
Even by Ruger standards, the trigger is pretty heavy and creepy, with a substantial 'wall' that is encountered before the break.
A recent load development and accuracy testing session with that rifle left my trigger finger sore.

I only fired about 25 rounds, but I was doing everything that I could to squeeze the trigger smoothly and consistently. With a pull weight just over 8 lbs in the lower third of the trigger bow, it's on the heavy side. But, for some reason, I tend to pull that particular trigger farther up the bow. At the point where I place my finger, it's over 10 lb.

To be as smooth and consistent as possible through the creep and 'wall', some of the trigger pulls took up to 30 seconds of squeezing before the break.

Pulling what was effectively a 10 lb trigger for so long literally resulted in pain.

A better trigger would definitely make shooting that 77 Mk II more enjoyable.
(It's a planned upgrade. I just need to order one, once I determine whether or not the barrel is worth the investment.)

Do I need to recover some grip strength? Probably.
But improving that trigger is more of a usability requirement, than a method of compensating for some of my inadequacies.
Even if I still had the grip strength of 10 years ago, I would still have the same feelings about that trigger.