What weapons against body armor?

ATN082268 · March 20, 2014, 03:58 AM

O.K. Let's say you live in an area where you observe criminals making more and more use of body armor. Being the Steven Seagle type, instead of moving to some place normal, you choose to meet the threat head on. What weapons would you use against the legions of body armor covered thugs ready to storm your castle?

Mastrogiacomo · March 20, 2014, 04:43 AM

Only thing I can think of is a shotgun....but then this isn't something I prepare for or see a need to give it serious thought.

Laura

**Spats McGee** · March 20, 2014, 06:13 AM

This seems more appropriate to T&T, so I've moved it there. I'll add a small cautionary note, though: This borders on being a SHTF-kind of thread, which we don't do. If it crosses that line, it'll be closed.

2damnold4this · March 20, 2014, 06:45 AM

Rifles tend to be better at penetrating body armor than service caliber handguns.

WV_gunner · March 20, 2014, 06:59 AM

Almost any decent rifle can go through steel plate pretty easy, you don't even need FMJ ammo. For instance, I have a metal spinning target rated for .44 Magnum. So, I figured a .30-30 wouldn't hurt it. Well at about 75 yards it put a hole in it. These were just regular Winchester Super X. I can't recall correctly, but I want to say its about a 1/2 thick and it spins when shot, still put a hole in it. I'm not really sure what kind of body armor your local criminals have, I don't think any criminals around here are that smart, usually an addict stealing to pay for their habbit. But I would think a decent rifle cartridge would be no match for their home made armor. If you reload, put a FMJ in a .30-30, ought to be decent. A Winchester 94 would be a good affordable option. As would a Remington pump .30-06, which I know someone out there makes fmj ammo for I just can't recall who. A BFR in .30-30 could do the trick as well. But you got to ask yourself a question, if they have armor what exactly are they planning? Are they some idiot thinking with armor on they can't be stopped or are they heavily experienced and intend to have it all out? You may be going up against a professional thief or gunman. Are you up to that? I'm assuming since you are asking this question then you may not be. Perhaps you're better off fortifying your home, just don't make obvious modifications that make them think you have something worth stealing. I don't know if you have a family, but I put mine first. If I thought there was that big of a threat of a gang of armored robbers getting in my house, I would move. It's not worth risking. It doesn't matter how good you are, there's always that chance. Even if you live alone, you can't always protect your house.

Mobuck · March 20, 2014, 07:39 AM

Bullet against metal is a different story vs bullet against Kevlar vest. A .223 HP varmint bullet will penetrate 1/4" steel plate at 100 yards. Not sure how that relates to body armor since several of the current military bullets were designed specifically to defeat body armor and those have significant penetrative features. Military type 62 grain 223 or most any 30 cal and above centerfire rifle will/should defeat common ballistic vests. My "house gun" AR pistol is loaded with 8-10 rounds of HP followed by 10 rounds of FMJ. I live in the country, far from neighbors so don't have any worries about stray bullets.
In the highly publicized California bank robbery where the criminals were equipped with full body armor, one shooter with a decent rifle could have stopped them in seconds. As it was, the cops were only trained to aim center mass and weren't knowledgeable or skilled enough to shoot for the face, hands, or feet.

themalicious0ne · March 20, 2014, 07:47 AM

As far as Level IIIA kevlar or lower, any rifle round will defeat a kevlar vest. The only thing that can stop a rifle round would be armor plates. Those plates are heavy and uncommon. As far as Kevlar is concerned, a level IIIA is supposed to stop a .44 magnum. However a .22lr will penatrate kevlar I am told by an officer who was shot 3 times with a .22 that went through his vest. On my vest, I have not seen any evidence that it would stop a .22. It says what it will stop and .22 or any other rifle rounds are not on that list. I have also heard rumor that 7.62 x 25 and 5.7 x 28 will penetrate given the right ammunition.

Edit: I am also fairly certain a shotgun round will not penetrate the vest. It will however cause significant trauma and break many rib. I am not sure whether this would be fatal or not. I would not want to be on the receiving end.

Corrections Cop · March 20, 2014, 07:50 AM

Quote:

O.K. Let's say you live in an area where you observe criminals making more and more use of body armor. Being the Steven Seagle type, instead of moving to some place normal, you choose to meet the threat head on. What weapons would you use against the legions of body armor covered thugs ready to storm your castle?

Why would you choose to meet legions of body armored thugs head on? Sounds like you need to move. Also this sounds suspicious, because 99% of the time the only people wearing body armor is LEO's Most criminals don't wear body armor.

Jim243 · March 20, 2014, 08:22 AM

This thread needs to be closed. I am starting to find questions like this offensive and the reason that Anti's think we are not responsible people.

Jim

2damnold4this · March 20, 2014, 08:40 AM

I agree. Not a lot to be gained here.

**4V50 Gary** · March 20, 2014, 08:49 AM

Failure drill. Practice it.

Corrections Cop · March 20, 2014, 08:54 AM

I think it's odd that people ask such questions like how to defeat body armor, it leads me to believe that they could have ulterior motives.

Willie Lowman · March 20, 2014, 09:45 AM

Quote:

a SHTF-kind of thread, which we don't do

Stupid
Homicidal
Teenager's
Fantasy

Quote:

Being the Steven Seagle type, instead of moving to some place normal, you choose to meet the threat head on. What weapons would you use against the legions of body armor covered thugs ready to storm your castle?

Looks like that kind of thread to me.

WC145 · March 20, 2014, 09:48 AM

The obvious solution is to practice pelvis and head shots.

Of course, if crime is so bad where you live that you're actually observing legions of criminals using body armor and using it more often it might be time to get of of Dodge.

JERRYS. · March 20, 2014, 09:52 AM

deleted...................

Sharkbite · March 20, 2014, 09:54 AM

This is a fishing expedition

It either falls into a SHTF scenario or has nefarious motives

Mods... Please remove this thread

Brian Pfleuger · March 20, 2014, 10:07 AM

I think it's odd that everyone assumes that such a thread is "nefarious" or ulterior. That is, frankly, idiocy.

I'm going to close it, but it has nothing to do with the motives of the OP but rather the sad inability of so many to discuss an issue (that's not really a secret BTW) like reasonable adults.

March 20, 2014, 03:58 AM	#1
ATN082268 Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2013 Posts: 975	What weapons against body armor? O.K. Let's say you live in an area where you observe criminals making more and more use of body armor. Being the Steven Seagle type, instead of moving to some place normal, you choose to meet the threat head on. What weapons would you use against the legions of body armor covered thugs ready to storm your castle?

March 20, 2014, 04:43 AM	#2
Mastrogiacomo Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,297	Only thing I can think of is a shotgun....but then this isn't something I prepare for or see a need to give it serious thought. Laura __________________ "Luctor et Emergo" - Struggle and Emerge

March 20, 2014, 06:13 AM	#3
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	This seems more appropriate to T&T, so I've moved it there. I'll add a small cautionary note, though: This borders on being a SHTF-kind of thread, which we don't do. If it crosses that line, it'll be closed. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

March 20, 2014, 08:22 AM	#9
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	This thread needs to be closed. I am starting to find questions like this offensive and the reason that Anti's think we are not responsible people. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

March 20, 2014, 08:49 AM	#11
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Failure drill. Practice it. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

March 20, 2014, 06:45 AM	#4
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	Rifles tend to be better at penetrating body armor than service caliber handguns.

March 20, 2014, 06:59 AM	#5
WV_gunner Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2011 Location: WV Posts: 938	Almost any decent rifle can go through steel plate pretty easy, you don't even need FMJ ammo. For instance, I have a metal spinning target rated for .44 Magnum. So, I figured a .30-30 wouldn't hurt it. Well at about 75 yards it put a hole in it. These were just regular Winchester Super X. I can't recall correctly, but I want to say its about a 1/2 thick and it spins when shot, still put a hole in it. I'm not really sure what kind of body armor your local criminals have, I don't think any criminals around here are that smart, usually an addict stealing to pay for their habbit. But I would think a decent rifle cartridge would be no match for their home made armor. If you reload, put a FMJ in a .30-30, ought to be decent. A Winchester 94 would be a good affordable option. As would a Remington pump .30-06, which I know someone out there makes fmj ammo for I just can't recall who. A BFR in .30-30 could do the trick as well. But you got to ask yourself a question, if they have armor what exactly are they planning? Are they some idiot thinking with armor on they can't be stopped or are they heavily experienced and intend to have it all out? You may be going up against a professional thief or gunman. Are you up to that? I'm assuming since you are asking this question then you may not be. Perhaps you're better off fortifying your home, just don't make obvious modifications that make them think you have something worth stealing. I don't know if you have a family, but I put mine first. If I thought there was that big of a threat of a gang of armored robbers getting in my house, I would move. It's not worth risking. It doesn't matter how good you are, there's always that chance. Even if you live alone, you can't always protect your house.

March 20, 2014, 07:39 AM	#6
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Bullet against metal is a different story vs bullet against Kevlar vest. A .223 HP varmint bullet will penetrate 1/4" steel plate at 100 yards. Not sure how that relates to body armor since several of the current military bullets were designed specifically to defeat body armor and those have significant penetrative features. Military type 62 grain 223 or most any 30 cal and above centerfire rifle will/should defeat common ballistic vests. My "house gun" AR pistol is loaded with 8-10 rounds of HP followed by 10 rounds of FMJ. I live in the country, far from neighbors so don't have any worries about stray bullets. In the highly publicized California bank robbery where the criminals were equipped with full body armor, one shooter with a decent rifle could have stopped them in seconds. As it was, the cops were only trained to aim center mass and weren't knowledgeable or skilled enough to shoot for the face, hands, or feet.

March 20, 2014, 07:47 AM	#7
themalicious0ne Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2012 Location: Oconomowoc, WI Posts: 345	As far as Level IIIA kevlar or lower, any rifle round will defeat a kevlar vest. The only thing that can stop a rifle round would be armor plates. Those plates are heavy and uncommon. As far as Kevlar is concerned, a level IIIA is supposed to stop a .44 magnum. However a .22lr will penatrate kevlar I am told by an officer who was shot 3 times with a .22 that went through his vest. On my vest, I have not seen any evidence that it would stop a .22. It says what it will stop and .22 or any other rifle rounds are not on that list. I have also heard rumor that 7.62 x 25 and 5.7 x 28 will penetrate given the right ammunition. Edit: I am also fairly certain a shotgun round will not penetrate the vest. It will however cause significant trauma and break many rib. I am not sure whether this would be fatal or not. I would not want to be on the receiving end.

March 20, 2014, 08:40 AM	#10
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	I agree. Not a lot to be gained here.

March 20, 2014, 08:54 AM	#12
Corrections Cop Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2012 Location: Lansing, MI Posts: 390	I think it's odd that people ask such questions like how to defeat body armor, it leads me to believe that they could have ulterior motives.

March 20, 2014, 09:48 AM	#14
WC145 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2008 Location: Downeast Maine Posts: 1,836	The obvious solution is to practice pelvis and head shots. Of course, if crime is so bad where you live that you're actually observing legions of criminals using body armor and using it more often it might be time to get of of Dodge. __________________ "If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge or jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - LtCol Jeff Cooper

March 20, 2014, 09:52 AM	#15
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,969	deleted...................

March 20, 2014, 09:54 AM	#16
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	This is a fishing expedition It either falls into a SHTF scenario or has nefarious motives Mods... Please remove this thread

March 20, 2014, 10:07 AM	#17
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	I think it's odd that everyone assumes that such a thread is "nefarious" or ulterior. That is, frankly, idiocy. I'm going to close it, but it has nothing to do with the motives of the OP but rather the sad inability of so many to discuss an issue (that's not really a secret BTW) like reasonable adults. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley