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Old July 15, 2017, 09:15 PM   #1
TruthTellers
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European Revolvers?

Coming off my thread of 19th Century revolvers, some had mentioned European revolvers in that thread and I'm thinking about it.

I'm not interested in Korth's or Manhurin's, they're way out of my price range, but stuff like Webley's, Nagant's, or others in that price range would peak my interest.

Also, they can be black powder cartridge only or percussion revolvers, but I'd prefer if they have DA capability.

Also, prefer more vintage/classic revolvers and not stuff made in the past 40-50 years.

I'm not familiar with much in European revolvers besides what I've already mentioned, so what's out there?
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Old July 15, 2017, 09:21 PM   #2
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Old July 15, 2017, 10:18 PM   #3
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sumptin like these?


https://p3.liveauctioneers.com/249/8...095085_1_m.jpg


https://image.invaluable.com/housePh...L119085478.jpg

http://image.invaluable.com/housePho...865086_mid.jpg
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Old July 16, 2017, 03:07 AM   #4
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Those are pretty vintage.

Really, I'd be looking for something that can be a shooter, so anything that is a cap and ball type revolver works, but anything that takes cartridges, cartridges that can be reloaded, I'm into.

That means no pinfire or rimfire revolvers and dies and brass are reasonably available.
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Old July 16, 2017, 04:46 AM   #5
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The Webley Mk.VI is frequently available on Gunbroker. The WWII versions are chambered for the .38/200 which is basically the same as the .38 S&W..
The gun is a good shooter and meets all of your qualifications.
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Old July 16, 2017, 04:52 AM   #6
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Even Mauser made a revolver !
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Old July 16, 2017, 04:57 AM   #7
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Webley in .38/200 would be fine. I had been thinking about a top break .38 S&W, but most of them are pretty weak in design and lots of manuals and guidelines I've been reading had said something to the effect that US made top breaks in .38 S&W should not shoot bullets weighing over 145 grains.

How about Webley's chambered for .455 Webley?
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Old July 16, 2017, 10:53 AM   #8
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I absolutely love the M1882 Rubin! They are not very expensive around here, but then again neither is the Colt snakes, but if one turns up in your neighbourhood, do yourself a favor and take a look.
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Old July 16, 2017, 12:26 PM   #9
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"...basically the same as the .38 S&W..." Exactly the same with a 200 grain lead bullet the Brits tried to make it more powerful instead of a new handgun. Brits were bankrupt after W.W. I. No money for the Army.
"...Those are pretty vintage..." They also run 3 grand and up. Adams and Tranter revolvers that were both percussion and cartridge are collector pieces. Ammo isn't readily available for 'em either. Neither is .455 Webley ammo.
Find a Webley Mk IV or an Enfield No. 2. .38 S&W with a 145 grain lead bullet is easy to come by. There is 200 grain data around some place on-line too. Forget where, of course.
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Old July 16, 2017, 08:35 PM   #10
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I'm surprised I haven't thought about this. European manufacturers are all over semi autos. I am not aware of any modern euro revolver manufacturers. Why is that market only an American thing?
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Old July 16, 2017, 08:49 PM   #11
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Chiappa is a european manufacturer of modern revolvers, and many makers of classic western style forearms are in fact european as well. Other than that, most european gunmakers produce guns for military and law enforcement agencies exclusively, and such weapons are almost always semi-auto. There is not a lot of civilian gun owners around here to raise the demand for revolvers, or other less tactically relevant firearms such as 1911s. Unfortunately.
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Old July 16, 2017, 09:14 PM   #12
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In the US, the time gap between percussion revolvers and center-fire cartridge revolvers was filled by rimfire revolvers. But in Europe, the same gap was filled by the pinfire revolver, and most revolvers of that general era use the pinfire system. The guns are not practical for use today, since pinfire cartridges are scarce and difficult to make or reload. But no collection of revolvers from the 1850-1900 era would be complete without several examples of pinfires and their ammunition.

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Old July 16, 2017, 10:56 PM   #13
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Webley .38s are great guns. Here is mine:





Original holster, cleaning rod, and 38/200 service cartridges. Shoots any factory .38 S&W and is built strong. Some poo-poo the stopping power of the cartridge but with some original 200 grain lead round nose loads they were found to be equal in performance to the vaunted .455 round. Mine has a very smooth and excellent double action pull and ejecting the spend cases never gets old. Highly recommended.

Last edited by Model12Win; July 16, 2017 at 11:01 PM.
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Old July 16, 2017, 11:24 PM   #14
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"... with some original 200 grain lead round nose loads they were found to be equal in performance to the vaunted .455 round."

First, the old .455 is not exactly an impressive powerhouse. Second, the .38 was chosen by the British based on the performance (such as it was) of the old "manstopper" load but some spoilsport reminded them that soft lead bullets were a no-no so the actual WWII issue round has a 178 grain jacketed bullet moving at a rather leisurely 620 fps.

Jim
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Old July 16, 2017, 11:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James K View Post
"... with some original 200 grain lead round nose loads they were found to be equal in performance to the vaunted .455 round."

First, the old .455 is not exactly an impressive powerhouse. Second, the .38 was chosen by the British based on the performance (such as it was) of the old "manstopper" load but some spoilsport reminded them that soft lead bullets were a no-no so the actual WWII issue round has a 178 grain jacketed bullet moving at a rather leisurely 620 fps.

Jim
Yep. The original one had a 200 grain loooong bullet that some say would tumble on impact. Regardless, the Brits went away from that and came out with a jacketed round later on. But some 200 grain stuff was still around during WW2 due to ammunition shortages. You can reload it yourself these days and there is at least one outfit offering a repro load.

A Webley would serve the OP well. I see a good deal on one on Gun Broker right now...
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Old July 17, 2017, 01:41 AM   #16
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If I went with a .38 Webley, I'd be using this bullet and this bullet only for reloading:

http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.ph...roducts_id=283

Now, is that the only .38/200 Webley model that existed? I'd really like one with a 3 inch barrel...
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Old July 17, 2017, 06:06 AM   #17
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That bullet from Matt is a good shooter. I was able to get them years ago from the now defunct Liberty Shooting Supplies. I believe that it is cast from the NEI 149a mold.
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Old July 17, 2017, 10:07 AM   #18
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The Nagants are cheap and reliable and you can find ammo easily.

Mine had a terrible trigger, but YMMV.
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Old July 17, 2017, 09:08 PM   #19
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All Nagants have terrible triggers, but some are terribler (Is that a word?) than others. Other military revolvers of that era are the Swiss, the Swedish, and the French. There were two major eras, as in this country. The first was from about 1865-1885, mostly large caliber guns of 10-12 mm, in RF, CF and pinfire. The second, from about 1885 to 1910, was smaller caliber, roughly 7.5 - 9 mm, and included the U.S. Colt .38 revolvers. Those guns were mostly replaced by auto pistols prior to WWI, though many of the old revolvers were given a second life in that disastrous war.

Jim
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Old July 17, 2017, 09:14 PM   #20
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I wouldn't get a Nagant... they have a problem where some of them lock up when you shoot original ammo in them and you can't get the emptys out with a mallet. Trust me, had this happen on mine. Sold it for a BIG profit and have never looked back.

I would MUCH rather have a Webley. It is a far better range and defensive revolver than any crappy Nagant.
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Old July 18, 2017, 01:05 AM   #21
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I've had an interest in Russian military small arms since I was in my teens. A Nagant revolver would be very nice to own, but the prices of them and the cost of ammunition has put them far off in the distant future. I do plan to own one, but not anytime this decade.

The Webley's really have me interested. Quality wise, I'm sure they far exceed the Nagant. Performance wise I have no idea, but I'm sure they're fun to shoot.

I'm more interested in the .38 S&W Webley than the .45 Webley's as so many of them were chopped to use .45 ACP in a moon clip. Historic guns that were modified from their original cartridge don't interest me and I already have a .45 revolver that uses moon clips.

The French revolvers look cool, but ammunition is probably going to be nigh impossible to find or handload for. So, what did the Sweeds and Swiss make? Not likely going to buy them over the Webley, but I am interested in hearing about them.
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Old July 18, 2017, 03:24 AM   #22
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Id love to have a German revolver but unless you want a vintage Mauser, there really arent any options.
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Old July 18, 2017, 07:30 AM   #23
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I never had much truck with them...compared to the average Smith or Colt, they seem clunky...expensive look-a-likes to H&R's, and Charters. JMHO, YMMV, Rod
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Old July 18, 2017, 08:40 AM   #24
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There are a lot more European revolvers than we normally see here.
The Webleys, Enfields, and gas seal Nagants are about it if you want something to shoot.

The Belgians, Swedes, Swiss, and French had well made revolvers, but novelty prices are high and ammunition is scarce.

Yes, there are 3 inch Webleys, in Police and Pocket models, not surplus.
Prices will be high, import duties and extra layers of importer and dealer put the US price up to $50 in 1939, more than any US revolver except the S&W Magnum and the Colt Shooting Master.
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Old July 18, 2017, 09:35 PM   #25
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Howdy

How about a Reichsrevolver?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOI4557ioaA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB074qA-3EA

Not terribly practical, but terrifically cool.

I see these come up sometimes, one of these days I have to buy one.
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