Bolt action, non muzzle loader black powder rifle ?

[Sorel366]

I know nothing about BP. I was wondering if there are any bolt action, magazine fed BP rifles. I am concerned one day smokeless powder might be less available on the market.

If there aren't any, is loading a 45-70 bolt action rifle with BP cartridges a good idea ? What about a 308 rifle, or a Mauser k98 ?

[DaleA]

Welcome to The Firing Line.

The concern, if you want to be concerned about such things, is not powder but primers-maybe you'll make your own black powder but where are you going to get your primers?

Black powder is rather nasty stuff in that it is dirty and will gunk up a gun very quickly and you must clean the gun very soon after shooting it with black powder to avoid rust and corrosion. (Very soon as in that day or the next.)

You might want to take a stroll over to the reloading section and see what folk do to reload cartridges.

Sounds like you might be interested in reloading-it's fun and an economical thing to do and you can tailor your rounds to do what you want them to do. Maybe light loads for target shooting or heavy loads for self defense.

There are folk there that DO load 'regular' brass cases with black powder, put a primer in the back and a bullet on top and shoot them but remember you're not going to get the performance (read velocity) out of black powder that you'll get from modern, smokeless powder.

[Sorel366]

Thanks. I will search threads in the reloading section.

[ofitg]

The concern, if you want to be concerned about such things, is not powder but primers-maybe you'll make your own black powder but where are you going to get your primers?

If I were going down this road, I would probably select the 8X57 and look for Berdan-primed cartridges.

It's possible to pop the spent primer out of the case with the "hydraulic" method, and it's not too hard to reload the primer with home-brew primer compound. No need to worry about re-seating the little anvils used in Boxer primers.
On the "down" side, reloading spent primers includes hammering out the firing pin indentations..... I don't know how many times you could do this before the metal finally cracks.

[wogpotter]

There are lots of B/P compatible bolt actions out there.
In fact every bolt action ever made is B/P compatible because B/P is only about 10% of the energy of modern smokeless.

Just pick one firing a cartridge from the B/P era & reverse engineer the load.
45-70, 444 Marlin, any of the old "Nitro express" loads, or even the venerable ol' Lee Enfield in .303 British was originally a B/P load.

[Wolf and Raven]

Yes, Original Black Powder loads like 45-70 would be a great choice.
Black powder fouling is extremely easy to clean. Only takes soapy water, even just plain water will actually usually do fine. The BP fouling isn't even corrosive like a lot of inexperienced folks think. It will hold moisture, which is corrosive, but in dry environments it is just some black residue. Be careful using any bullet lubes designed for smokeless loads, that can make a big mess when combined with BP. A good rule of thumb that will keep you safe is to only use natural lubes made of things like tallow and wax, etc. Many petroleum products will cause the BP fouling to gum up, so if you just stay away from them things will be easy.

[varifleman]

I have a similar to the one depicted in the post Remington-Lee Model 1885 45-70 Black Powder Navy contract Rifle which is a bolt action 5-round magazine fed and I shoot it occasionally with commercial black powder Government 45-70 ammo and it's very accurate and fun to shoot.

[psalm7]

There was a Gun shop that I worked at in the 80's . The owner tinkered with his own ideas while we worked on customers guns . He built for himself and his hunting buddies several bolt action muzzel loader . He used Yugo Mauser actions M48 I think . He ordered barrels in .50,.54 and .58 wich ever they wanted . He started designing with threading a plug and making a chamber that would accept a 209 primer it worked but was clumsy to insert and remove the primer in the small chamber . He started expiermenting with chamber the reciever end of the barrel for a 30-06 cartrige angle the Mauser extractor to jump over the rim of the case so you could load the case full of black powder single shot . The primed case would be full of black powder . He ordered several walnut stocks in the ruff , drilled them for a ramrod . We finished them . Used a set screw to take up slack from the Military trigger . So you would ram the bullet down the barrel chamber your case full of powder . They were drilled and tapped for scope . Nice Rifles and he only made about 6 etched and engraved with our shop name and caliber . The shop owner and a couple of his old hunting buddies have passed away . Wonder if any of these will end up on the market one day . He just handed them the rifle when they stipped by for a visit and said take it home .

[4V50 Gary]

The first widely adopted bolt action cartridge rifles fired black powder cartridges. The French Chassepot, Prussian needle gun and the Mauser 71 all fired black powder. The Model 71 was last used as a combat arm in early WW I.

Remember, use soapy water to clean them.

[B.L.E.]

Even the .22 Hornet cartridge could easily be reverse engineered back into the black powder .22 Winchester Centerfire that it was developed from. The .22 WCF shot a .228 diameter bullet but I suspect the .224 bullets that modern .22Hornet rifles were designed for would work just fine.
Back in the '70s, I obtained a can of black powder before I even owned a muzzle loading rifle. My first black powder experiment was loading a 12 gauge shotshell with black powder. Not having any loading info for black powder, I simply looked up how many grains 3 drams amounted to and weighed out that charge on a scale. It went boom, the critter I aimed at died, and I was surprised at the huge cloud of smoke that obscured the target after the shot.
Later, I loaded up some .44 Magnum rounds with a case full of black powder. They shot, were surprisingly accurate, and very pleasant to shoot, like a .44 special, which I believe was originally a black powder round. Not knowing any better, I used the same jacketed hollow point bullets that I used for smokeless powder loads, but they worked just fine.

[Sorel366]

Thanks for the responses.

I will definitely look up the Remington-Lee Model 1885.

[4V50 Gary]

BTW, the Mauser 71/84 was the tubular magazine fed version of the single shot Model 71.

[roashooter]

if the chit truly hits the fan and ammo is not to be had...my fall back plan is a 54/50/36/32 ...flintlock guns...making BP is not rocket science...just dont make stupid mistakes......flints can be stockpiled/ and still found in nature...lead balls can be reused/melted down and recast on a campfire.....will beat out anyone using sticks and stones....so let the games begin

[4V50 Gary]

I would not want to use a black powder firearm, muzzle loader or otherwise, in other than in matches or hunting. That big plume of white smoke alerted opposing Civil War sharpshooters (or artillery) as to where to direct their aim.

[BerdanSS]

Like say one of these

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.as...k+Powder)Rifle