New to me 44mag reloading

[ballardw]

Originally Posted by zxcvbob

I found a washer just the right thickness and the right size hole in the center to put under my .38 Special dies to load .357 Magnum without changing the adjustments. I think it was a spacer between the platters of an old hard-drive. I just got lucky with the thickness, but I'll take that. I load a lot of .38's and just a little .357

Midway carries these made by Redding

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012453382
for .38 to .357

or set for .38/.357 and .44 Special/.44 Magnum with partial resize washer
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012401468?pid=189290

And if that's not enough you can likely find one you want at https://www.mcmaster.com/spacer-washers/ (industrial so LOTS of choices but need to find the size you want)

[44 AMP]

In the old days, RCBS used to include the spacer washer in the die set. Don't know if they still do that, or not.

The difference in case length (listed max) between .38 Special and .357 is 0.135" and the difference between .44 Special and .44 Magnum is 0.125".

0.125" is exactly 1/8 inch. 0.135' is 0.01" thicker, and an ordinary hardware store 1/8" washer could be .01" thicker than the nominal 1/8". They aren't that precise, for most of their intended use, that small a difference doesn't matter.

Unless you trim your brass for uniform length, the brass may vary 0.01" or more, so, a 1/8" washer at 0.125 might just work fine where the correct thickness should be 0.135".

I'm personally not a fan of using the fastest powders in large pistol cases. For some, the big concern is powder position in the case on firing, but I don't worry much about that, its easy enough to point the muzzle up (or down) before aiming, so you can be fairly consistent with powder position without filler.

What concerns me more is the large case and small charge make spotting a double charge more difficult, and a double charge of Bullseye or 231 can wreck your gun.

Also, the fast powders reach their maximum velocity several hundred fps sooner than slower powders. I prefer a medium powder like Unique for loads up to about 1100fps (heavier loads are possible with Unique, I just don't bother) and go to 2400 or H110 W296 or AA No.9 for full house magnum loads.

[rclark]

I am now using the Hornady lock system which I like. The washer would not work in this situation. I am spoiled with the single twist and die is in place . Using an Iron Press.

I've always tested loads in the 0.5 increment. Works for me.

[Metal god]

Ok instead of putting more time into Unique , I only have a couple pounds , don't use it much in other cartridges and it does not meter well . I think I'm going to abandon it for a powder/s I do use more in the same burn rate area . My thinking along with the above is to use a powder for moderate 44 mag loads that also gets a more rounds per pound ct then 2400 & H110 which I also use for my 357 .

Right now the powders I have on hand that fit that bill are HS-6 and CFE-pistol . In theory CFE-pistol is the perfect powder . Maxes out at about 12 grains which gets me 500+ rounds per pound . Meters great , I can throw dead on charges all day long and it should keep me below 1250fps for plated and lead bullets . My only issue I have with CFE pistol is that it burns hot and heats my barrels up faster then other powders do .

I just bought 500- 240gr coated lead bullets that I'll likely load similarly as my plated bullets . I'll have to wait for true jacketed bullets to use the 2400 and H110 powders , who knows when those will be available in quantities and a price I'll be willing to pay .

I've always tested loads in the 0.5 increment. Works for me.

I assume you mean in large cartridges with slow powders because you ain't doing that with Titegroup and 9mm . Most of the handgun powders I use for the cartridges I use them in tend to have at most 1gr difference from minimum to max charges . There's a few Titegroup loads that only have .6gr between min & max , pretty tough to jump in .5gr increments in those instances

[lugerstew]

Metal God, I have been shooting coated bullets from SNS casting in my Marlin carbine and also my taurus 44 magnums.

CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

For some reason the faster powders, even though they were slower velocities would send bullets sideways, but when I switched to H110, 23grains and coated 240 grain bullets, they shot strong and very nice and accurate. But powders like Unique, blue dot and cfe pistol, if I tried to get any decent velocity from those, the bullets went everywhere.

[jetinteriorguy]

Deleted, wrong place.

[rclark]

Right now the powders I have on hand that fit that bill are HS-6 and CFE-pistol .

CFE-pistol works great in the .44 Mag. I liked 11.0gr. which gave me 1184fps under 240g SWC. 10.0gr (1092fps) gave me the best consistency. I started my tests at 8.0gr (934fps). Tests were in a Ruger 6 1/2" .44 Mag revolver. Didn't test any HS-6 in .44 Mag. Have to rectify that I think....

0.5g increments ... you ain't doing that with Titegroup and 9mm

True. There are special cases . Pun intended.

[Metal god]

I went ahead and loaded up some more unique in .5 grain increments from 10 grains to 11.5 . Not so much because I plan to use it but to just have the data since I’ve already went to 9.5 I might as well find out where the max is and what it feels like .

I’ll probably try the HS6 with the plated bullets next and save the CFE pistol for the coated lead bullets that are coming . At some point I’ll get around to trying all the combinations of bullets and powders but for now I’ll keep them separate due to the lack of bullets . No need wasting projectiles just for the data .

[jetinteriorguy]

If you’re interested in some nice moderate loads in .44sp range try Green Dot or Clays.

[Metal god]

Haha ok I’ll go pick some up lol , no but thanks for the suggestion - really . Not sure I'll be getting any new powders . Although not 100% happy with “all” the powders I use , I’m satisfied with most and quite happy with several .

Here's what I use now and that's not all just the ones I'm actively using .


If anything I'll be reducing the amount of powders I use . The only new powder I'm truly considering is Bullseye which would replace Titegroup in my rotation . My only issue with that is working up loads to replace Titegroup . I don't know how many Titegroup loads I have in multiple calibers but it's at least 15 That I've worked up and pretty happy with . Another I'd like to switch out/trade is Win-748 to Power Pro 2000mr . Powders I'll likely scrap all together and never buy again unless .... RL-15 , Varget , IMR-4320 , Auto comp and Long shot .

Back to my 44mag , I loaded up some 240gr PLFP using HS-6 and will be testing them on Monday . The one thing I did was used the Winchester primers instead on standard primers . The hope is to help get and keep the HS-6 burning optimally . I've read numerous times HS-6 can benefit from magnum primers so I went that direction with that load . Started at minimum and stopped .5gr from max . I'll bring my chrono this time to get that data as well .

[zxcvbob]

Another vote for Green Dot, especially with cast bullet loads. (I don't load any .44's, but I load .41 Magnum and .45 Colt and it works great in both)

[rclark]

If anything I'll be reducing the amount of powders I use .

Know what you mean. After I went through my 'testing' phase of life, I've settled on a few goto powders on the shelf. For example, Unique for the .44s (Special and Magnum) and 2400 for warm loads. No need to look any further. Not that other powders do work as well and some maybe better... they do. But since I can't keep them all -- I have to settle on just a few of them .

I like Green Dot too. In fact it is my goto powder in the .45 Colt cartridge .

[Nick_C_S]

Although not 100% happy with “all” the powders I use

I'm not 100% happy with ANY of the powders I use . Okay, I'm being a bit of a smart-aleck here. Point is, no propellant is perfect. Although W231 is a good one - which is why I'm sitting on almost 11#'s of it.

If anything I'll be reducing the amount of powders I use.

Me too. During the shortage of '13, I was buying anything I could get. That left me sitting on some 14 different propellants - for pistol only. By '16, I resolved to reduce down to just four: VV-N310, W231, Power Pistol, & 2400. Some things have changed. I decided that VV-N310 need not stay (have a several years' supply though); and I made the mistake of trying BE-86. It's awesome. Really good stuff. Oh, and W296 - for my Henry rifle. I'll include that one too because it makes what is technically pistol ammo.

The only new powder I'm truly considering is Bullseye which would replace Titegroup in my rotation.

Both of these propellants failed to "make the cut" for me. Although, both are excellent propellants. As a revolver guy (especially 38 Spl), I will always have a soft spot in my heart for Bullseye. Energetic, economical, consistent, just a wonderful propellant - a century of use speaks for itself. W231, being just a tick slower and a tick less energetic than BE, makes it just a little more versatile; and so I prefer it.

As for TiteGroup, if I loaded a lot of plated ammo for semi-autos, I'd be keeping it in my inventory. The stuff is tough to beat for making gobbs n gobbs of basic plated range fodder for lots of shooting. It probably does that better than any other powder. It has its place, that's for sure. Just isn't needed so much for my loading/shooting style. As a revolver guy, TG is less attractive to me. Its extremely low fill rate is not well suited for cavernous revolver cases. The low fill rate by itself doesn't stop me, however. But it also runs really hot and that doesn't bode well for revolvers (handling while loading, unloading) and lead slugs. The stuff is really spunky too. I have 36 years of loading experience and the stuff still makes me a little nervy doing load workups. W231 runs cooler and is more forgiving. I just prefer it.

I loaded up some 240gr PLFP using HS-6

Good combination. HS-6 is persnickity because it's so lackadaisical (low energy) you have to really pump it up to get it to run correctly. Heavy bullets seem to be a must. With light bullets, I couldn't get it to run right in any caliber. But 240/44Mag is a good place for it. Yes, I use CCI350 primers with it and consider it a must. I no longer have HS-6 in my inventory; but am sitting on several hundred 240g JHP rounds loaded with it.

[Metal god]

Thanks Nick :-)

Back from testing today , so bummed I forgot my chrono ;-{ . I tested HS-6 pushing the 240gr PLFP from Everglades . Charges were 12gr through 14.5gr in .5gr increments . I felt the 12gr but the 14.5gr were push much harder . I loaded ten of each and let my buddy shoot the last four of the 14gr load . His comment was ouch , that's not even fun to shoot - LMAO they weren't that bad haha . The primers on the 14gr and the 14.5gr were starting to flatten . Not bad but noticeable compared to the others .

Here's 3 cases at 14.5gr and the top case was 12gr , they look fine to me .



The 12gr loads have some scorched case mouths but the 14 and 14.5gr loads looked like they sealed up the chamber well and barrel still looks clean-ish . I think I'll call 14'5 max and load 14gr so not to stress the gun any more then needed . Turns out this is an older 629-1 I'd rather not run it into the ground any faster then need be haha .

I'm still looking forward to getting so jacketed bullet and load them up with some H-110 and see what this baby really can do . Yes I know that sounds contradictory to my last statement :-@

Oh and I TOTALLY forgot I had the loads using CFE-pistol with me until I was packing up so I guess that's for next time . Hey maybe I'll remember the chrono next time :-/

[Nick_C_S]

14.5gn HS-6 with a 240gn slug? Yikes. My above mentioned load - my "set" round is 13.0gn. I'm using a jacketed bullet, and you're using plated (if I read properly), so that buys you some forgiveness. But 14.5 still sounds high to me. Fortunately, HS-6 is among the most forgiving propellants in the burn rate range (intermediate).

I looked at my chronograph workbook and I did the work up at .3gn increments. So I tested at 12.6, 12.9, 13.2, and 13.5. Between 12.9 and 13.2, there was only a 1f/s increase (1157 vs 1158 - 5" bbl M629 Classic); so I settled on 13.0. I never actually chronographed at 13.0. The notes for the 13.5 loading read "Flat primers, difficult extraction, STOP."

BTW, decades of personal (albeit anecdotal) experience tells me that primers flattening somewhat in 44 Mag is more or less normal. They flatten more than small primer 357 Mags for instance. To me, a flattened 44 Mag primer is rather ho-hum; whereas, a flattened 357 Mag primer gets my attention. Your primer on the lower-left seems to be the most flattened; and it looks perfectly fine to me. That said, I can't explain the discrepancy between your charge weights and mine (other than the bullet type); but, such is the nature of hand loading.

[Metal god]

I used jacketed data , Hodgdon has that maxing out at 15gr . I figured I’d stop at 14.5gr because of the magnum primers I’m using . All cases ejected fine , none stuck that I can remember and it was something I was paying attention to .

I also shot a few more of those unknown loads . Those also eject just fine , I’m still concerned about those but I think 14gr of the HS-6 should be ok with the plated bullets but I trust your judgment so I’ll make sure I run that 14gr load over my chono to be sure it’s not faster then expected.

[Nick_C_S]

I could have had a spunky batch of HS-6 when I did my workup.

Your plated bullets likely don't have a cannelure. Your seating depth could be more shallow. Your primers may not be quite as hot as CCI 350's.

I have also run into times when the same ammo shows signs of pressure in one gun, and not the other. (My 686 4" bbl shows pressure signs long before my 3" or 8-3/8" bbl 686's; or my Python.)

So I find our differences curious, but not entirely surprising.

You mention your gun is a 629-1. I'm curious what is the bbl length.

[Metal god]

Your plated bullets likely don't have a cannelure.

They do have a cannelure

Barrel is 5-3/4” , pinned but cylinder is not recessed :-( . With help from UN we think it was made between 82 and 84 maybe as late as 85

[Nick_C_S]

I have a 629-1 (8-3/8" bbl). I purchased it new on 12/19/83. Took possession on 1/4/84 (15 day wait at the time). It was my second gun purchase.

Of interesting note, it is stamped differently than yours. It reads exactly "M.629-1" The serial # is ACT 9xxx; if that's any help.

The barrel is not pinned.

[Metal god]

My serial # starts N872XXX . It's my understanding the 1 after the 629 indicates the first modification to the original design so if you have a 629-6 it's on the 6th design change . Because of that I "was" thinking the 629-1 all were pinned barrels but no recessed cylinder . Well yours blows that theory all to hell . I have access to an old M-29 , I'll check that out and see what's so different about the 629-1 .

Does yours have the firing pin on the hammer ? mine does .

Also I need to correct the build date , my serial # indicates 1980 to 83

[Nick_C_S]

Yes. Mine has the firing pin on the hammer. I don't think they put the firing pin in the frame until much later (like 2000's - I could be wrong). BTW, the cylinder charge holes are not counter-sunk ("recessed," as you phrased it) - I've never seen a stainless Smith with counter-sunk charge holes)

I find it curious that both the serial number and model number are formatted so differently between the two guns. It's like they aren't even the same manufacturer. The serial numbers of all my Smith revolvers (7) are formatted the same: LLLNNNN.

I don't know that much about the history of Smith revolvers, serial numbers, revisions, etc.

[44 AMP]

Friend bought a 629 in 81 and it did not have a pinned barrel. can no longer remember if the chambers were recessed or not. After a few hundred rounds (more than 2, less than 5) and mostly .44 special, the barrel started to unscrew. You could see the rib was canted.

He sent it back to S&W (run by Bagor Punta at the time) and they sent it back to him, barrel now straight, with a note saying "nothing wrong with the gun".

He then sold it.

Dropping the pinned barrels and recessed cylinders (on magnums) happened at different times with different models, and literally, older parts were used alongside new ones until the old ones were used up. SO any combination of cylinder and barrel are possible during the transition years.