New Brass

[barryc123]

Hi guys,
I came across some new Starline.223 brass and am wondering if I should resize it before loading it.
Thanks

[dahermit]

Originally Posted by barryc123

Hi guys,
I came across some new Starline.223 brass and am wondering if I should resize it before loading it.
Thanks

A lot of the time there will be dents in the mouth of new brass cases. Running them through your sizing die will straiten them out. Given that standard procedure is to chamfer the case mouths, sizing first will enable a uniform chamfer.

[barryc123]

Thanks

[GJeffB]

barryc, gotta tell you that I have no idea if it's necessary.
I always do, regardless of caliber, because ... why not? Nothing to loose [shrug]

-jb, IMHO

[Twinsig]

Short answer. Yep.

[barryc123]

Thanks again, I will.

[Unclenick]

I never do, and have yet to have an issue. On the advice of Glen Zediker (RIP), I used to buy primed brass and just charge and shoot it in .223. The dented mouth problem is real, but you can straighten minor dents by running a bottleneck rifle case just far enough into the sizing die to travel onto the expander, then pulling it back out. No lube required unless you want to dip the neck in a little graphite or motor mica to dry lube it. I prefer to use a mandrel on a special die body made for holding it, rather than the expander. Sinclair has made one for decades, and 21st Century makes them. You want a mandrel about 0.222" in diameter.

[Shadow9mm]

Yes. Resize it.

[RC20]

Short answer, no.

If I have dents in the case mouth then the M die is applied.

[Unclenick]

Yep. Another good option for dents.

[44 AMP]

This question comes up fairly often, and we go round and round on it().

Some folks are firmly convinced that brand new virgin brass is (or should be) ready to load without sizing, and some go so far as to warn us that sizing virgin brass is not only unnecessary, but shortens the case life. (by one cycle, anyway...)

Others among us, feel that full length sizing is the first step in the reloading process and we do it to virgin brass the same as fired brass, to ensure the case is correctly sized for the rest of the loading process.

I've see new brass both ways. I've had new brass that was "just right" and could be loaded and used without sizing. I've also had new brass that looked right but wouldn't properly hold a bullet until it was sized. And then there are the dings, dents and out of round case mouths, from loose bulk pack shipping and handling. Some cases are more prone to being deformed than others.

My rule is everything gets sized, (and full length sized,) the first time it gets loaded. New brass, once fired brass, 15th time fired brass, etc., they all get sized before loading.

[barryc123]

Thank you guys for this great information, and for your patience with me being new to loading bottleneck brass.
I have a full length sizing die and a RCBS short base sizing die. The.223 I shoot is shot in a AR platform rifle, nothing else. I’m not trying to achieve 1/2 moa groups at distance, just plinking. I read somewhere an AR benefits from short base sizing. Is there anything to this or is it just a sales pitch? I also have a taper crimp seating die and a Lee factory crimp die. Any advice on what to use would be greatly appreciated.
I’m glad I found this forum and hope to be able to contribute to it one day.
Thanks
Barry

[Bart B.]

You don't need to crimp case mouths into bullets. It imbalances bullets and reduces accuracy. Commercial match ammo doesn't have crimped in bullets.

You may not need to use small base sizing dies. Try the regular die first.

[Unclenick]

Ditto that. It depends on your chamber and the tolerances of the magazines and your gun's magazine well, etc. If you find everything feeds and runs with standard dies, just use those. The one place I've used small base dies is first-time resizing military once-fired brass. If it went through a machine gun before you got your hands on it, then it may be so fat that it springs back a little too much coming out of a standard die. But other than that, I've never needed SB dies with the AR, M1A, or M1 Garand.

[barryc123]

Thanks guys I appreciate it !

[jetinteriorguy]

I checked the case dimensions with a good digital caliper between my Small base size and a standard Lee die and there was no difference. I don’t have a micrometer so maybe that would show a difference, but I’ve put several thousand rounds through all my AR15’s for several years now using the standard die with absolutely no issues. But hey, if you already have a small base die what the heck, use it. Otherwise I’d save my money based on my experience.

[Unclenick]

RCBS told me they use 0.002" diameter tolerance on their small base dies. I would suppose it's the same for their standard die. So if you got an SB die on the large size and a standard die on the small side, I expect they might well be about the same.

[RC20]

Some folks are firmly convinced that brand new virgin brass is (or should be) ready to load without sizing, and some go so far as to warn us that sizing virgin brass is not only unnecessary, but shortens the case life. (by one cycle, anyway...)

Simple Test: Does an new empty case chamber in the rifle you will shoot it in?

Yes: Then how is sizing it going to make it better? Or, you are doing unnecessary work and recommending others do so for your like of unneeded work. In other words its your preference not anything to do with a need (see follow up)

No: Then you have to resize it.

I have bought PPU new (7.5 Swiss, 308 and 30-06). It all fit normally (definition of that is it slides in and there is no jamming on the shoulder or body)

I have bought Lapua 30-06 - 308 and 6.5 x 47 (aka Lapua). It all fit easily.

I have shot factory ammo from Winchester-Remington-Federal and I don't know how many others. It all went into the gun normally.

Where do they get their brass from? Uhhhmmmm.

So, if you enjoy processing brass, great, say so and enjoy it.

If you do not, then you don't need to and I would like the mfg you had to re-size to fit because I want to be sure to avoid it so if I get hit by a fit of insanity and buy new brass (the others were test cases for comparison or have to (6.5 x 47 as its a Lapua only ) normally I buy RP once fire and have fun (which of course needs to be sized)

Or for the more advanced, you can measure the shoulder on your brass and compare it to a Go Gauge (well I have the gauges because I build the guns) - but then I try a couple in the chamber anyway! (yes that is my preference, I don't have to)

[RC20]

Hi guys,
I came across some new Starline.223 brass and am wondering if I should resize it before loading it.
Thanks

As you have seen, you get opinions vs facts

The fact is almost 100%, no you do not.

The way to sort it out is looking at a opinion statement vs a fact.

Opinion statement: Short answer is yes/no

Factual: Check the brass, see if it fits in your chamber and if it does, you don't have to resize it and in fact its more than useless as at best you will not change it and have to clean it or you will size it smaller and or push the shoulder back more than it needs to be.

If someone like doing stuff like that, that wonderful for them. But its not factual as to a need to do it and should be expressed that way.

44 Amp is the only one that offers up a possible real reason and that is not supported by a brass mfg that makes that required (I don't doubt it happened just no mfg listed which should be)

I have received Lapua with neck dents. M die takes care of that.

Any new brass that has more than that should be shipped back (and never bought again)

Lapua is annoying but its the only 6.5 x 47 out there. Fewer dented necks this time than last stuff I bought to see how it compared.

I will contrast that to PPU I had to buy new (7.5 Swiss as no one else makes it) and it was all good.

Interesting a so called top brass has case mouth dents and a mid level brass has none.

[44 AMP]

Interesting a so called top brass has case mouth dents and a mid level brass has none.

I think PART of it has to do with how brass is now packaged and shipped. Back in the 70s, we bought new brass and it generally came in boxes, just like loaded ammo. R-P and others had cases individually packed, Winchester did for some rifle rounds, but usually packed pistol and smaller rifle rounds base up,base down alternating and filling the box.

Today, and for the last several years, I find brass loose packed in a plastic bag or in a box, so cases get "jostled" and banged up a bit.

Dented mouths is the most common, and is most common with long, large caliber cases, especially those that are a bit thin at the mouth. I've found .45-70 and .458 Win mag with out of round mouths most often. Small caliber and short brass (9mm or .223) not so much, but it still sometimes happens.

There are two things new brass needs to do to "avoid" sizing, fit in your chamber AND hold the bullet properly. If it won't do both, run it through your sizer die.

[Shadow9mm]

Yes, resize it. It may or may not "need" it. My reason is consistency. Each set of dies will be slightly different including the ones at the factory. I want all my ammo to be the same. I want the same neck tension and headspace for every load. Only way I know to do that is to size all my brass in my set of dies, including new brass.

[chris downs]

I just yesterday got some new Winchester .45 colt brass. It had to be resized. I would have had to disassemble every round if I had loaded them

[Geezerbiker]

I neck size and trim new brass even if it looks OK. I figure it makes them more consistent and I I'd rather be too picky than to lax it my loading procedures.

Tony

[RC20]

Yes, resize it. It may or may not "need" it. My reason is consistency. Each set of dies will be slightly different including the ones at the factory. I want all my ammo to be the same. I want the same neck tension and headspace for every load. Only way I know to do that is to size all my brass in my set of dies, including new brass.

Good luck with that. It all springs back a tad different so its never going to be the same.

If its needed, that is fine. Note I said to check.

If its not needed then its a preference or an opinion not something that has any basis of fact.

Do you pull down your factory ammo and size the cases? I would like to see that!

I have looked at tons of cases in bags, none of them was in a condition that made sizing a factor (all bright shiny spanking new)