My new Phoenix Drake. Will this be the most accurate semi auto pistol?

[bac1023]

I’ve been waiting for this pistol since just before the pandemic started and now I’m currently the only person in the United States who owns one (with others shipping out in a few days). I’ve made it no secret how high in regard I hold Phoenix products. They are all precision machined out of the finest materials and then fitted by hand in Interlaken, Switzerland. The Drake is the company’s new Limited spec competition pistol. While its similar to the smaller Redback in many ways, there are some big differences as well.

The Drake is a larger gun and has a full 5” barrel, which is a half inch longer than the Redback. The magazines are longer, holding 20 rounds of 9mm instead of 17. However, the Drake was initially developed for the 40S&W, which is also available and I’m told the gun will be available in 10mm at some point, with conversion kits available. The magazine is not compatible with the Redback and therefore the Drake will also not take CZ magazines, like the Redback does. The Drake will also not take the larger CZ Tactical Sport magazines. They are actually large frame Tanfoglio magazines, so should be easily available. The gun does ship with four magazines from the factory as well.

Additionally, the Drake has an accurizing internal bushing, very similar to the Briley bushing that S&W used to use on their Performance Center pistols. The Drake weighs in at a whopping 51.6oz with an empty magazine inserted, making it one of my heaviest semi autos. That heavy weight is there despite having a slide lightened for speed with a large cut on top.

My excitement and expectation of this pistol is solely based on what I know about the company and my experience with the Redback and even the Fusion. Both models are outstanding shooters and my two all steel Redbacks are honestly two of the best shooting pistols I own. I have some that can match them, but none that outperform them, especially my SAO Redback. The trigger on that model is as good as it gets. The Drake’s trigger has the same feel and is about a quarter pound lighter than the Redback’s trigger on average, with a pull weight under 2lbs. Other than the weight, the feel of the trigger is second to none, including all my top 2011’s. There is simply no creep whatsoever.

The reason I feel it could be the most accurate pistol is because Phoenix went to great lengths to develop the spherical bushing to enhance accuracy. They initially used a Briley bushing during Drake development, but through extensive testing, realized they only last about 15,000 rounds. If this bushing works like its supposed to, the gun should be more inherently accurate than the Redback, which has no bushing. I’ve known the Redback to be as accurate as any pistol I own and I’m quite confident in knowing I have example(s) of all the world’s most accurate semi autos. Its pure theory at this point and will never be easy to prove, but the Drake could very well be my most inherently accurate pistol. Its incredible trigger, awesome ergonomics and adjustable gas pedal will help shooters get the most out of that inherent accuracy too.

The grips are very tacky and should be great for shooting. However, I will switch them out to something a little more fancy and colorful like I did with my Redbacks. I need to wait for Lok to develop some bogie grips for it. They are not compatible with Redback grips, unfortunately.

From a pricing standpoint, Drake comes in at $5650 from The Attic in Minot, ND. They are the only importer of Phoenix firearms. As a really good repeat customer, I was able to get a few hundred off the price, but certainly a very expensive handgun t say the least. While that price will deter 99% of “gun people” when a CZ TSO will get you similar performance for less than a third of the price, I love high quality. To me, its worth the price and I’ve always sort of marched to my own drummer when it came to handguns. I believe The Attic got 35 Drakes in on this initial shipment. Many are already sold. I’m told more may be in next spring or summer. This is the epitome of a boutique firearms builder and they aren’t trying to sell the most. I believe the entire company is made up of less than 15 people.

So there you have it. I wanted to give my initial thoughts that I’ll post across a few boards. This is the finest pistol I have bought all year, without a doubt, and also its instantly one of the finest pistols I own without question.

Does anyone have experience with any of the Swiss Phoenix pistols?

Please enjoy the pics and share your thoughts.






















Here it is with my two Redbacks...

[44 AMP]

Will this be the most accurate semi auto pistol?

In its class? possibly.

However, everything that uses the Browning type tilt lock barrels has the potential to be less accurate than designs using barrels that are fixed, or do move in one plane, but not in relation to the sights.

Many "sport" .22LR pistols are as accurate as match tuned tilt barrel pistols. Many are not. Lots of things influence the outcome but guns with barrels that don't move in relation to the sights have a high potential for accuracy.

Looks like a fine match gun, should give you good service. Might be more accurate than you are, almost certainly more accurate than I am, now.

[bac1023]

Yeah was actually talking about centerfire stuff, but I hear you.

[TunnelRat]

Given you have all of those very fine firearms (likely a unique collection), I feel like you could do your own accuracy and precision test. I’d be interested in the results of that, when and if you get the time.

[Shadow9mm]

First off, accuracy had to do with their persona pulling the trigger and hitting their intended target. Guns in an of themselves cannot be accurate.

Im gonna be honest, I had not heard of the gun until now. However after taking a quick look at it, and based on my understanding of firearms, I am going to say it is most likely not the most likely to be able to create the smallest groups. Handguns, specifically semi autos, with fixed barrels, and non reciprocating sights are what you are looking for. Look at the Laugo alien as an example. Im not saying it is not a very fine handgun. but "most accurate" fails in the term, as well in the probability of making the smallest groups based on its moving barrel and slide mounted sights.

[bac1023]

First off, accuracy had to do with their persona pulling the trigger and hitting their intended target. Guns in an of themselves cannot be accurate.

Im gonna be honest, I had not heard of the gun until now. However after taking a quick look at it, and based on my understanding of firearms, I am going to say it is most likely not the most likely to be able to create the smallest groups. Handguns, specifically semi autos, with fixed barrels, and non reciprocating sights are what you are looking for. Look at the Laugo alien as an example. Im not saying it is not a very fine handgun. but "most accurate" fails in the term, as well in the probability of making the smallest groups based on its moving barrel and slide mounted sights.

No it doesn't work that way. Guns themselves can be very accurate. That's what a ransom rest is for. In order to measure the accuracy of the gun, you need to remove the other variables. I think anyone with half a brain knows the shooter is the biggest variable.

Fixed barrel guns are certainly in the conversation, but they aren't always the end all be all of accuracy. Arguably most accurate semi auto pistol of the past half century, the Sig P210, does not have a fixed barrel. All the most accurate 1911's have no fixed barrel either.

The Alien is a great gun. I have a couple and shoot them often. I don't see it beating the Drake from a ransom rest though.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by bac1023

No it doesn't work that way. Guns themselves can be very accurate. That's what a ransom rest is for. In order to measure the accuracy of the gun, you need to remove the other variables. I think anyone with half a brain knows the shooter is the biggest variable.

Fixed barrel guns are certainly in the conversation, but they aren't always the end all be all of accuracy. Arguably most accurate semi auto pistol of the past half century, the Sig P210, does not have a fixed barrel. All the most accurate 1911's have no fixed barrel either.

The Alien is a great gun. I have a couple and shoot them often. I don't see it beating the Drake from a ransom rest though.

You said most accurate semi auto pistol. So we cant separate 1911 and others into their own classes. We are about which semi auto handgun will produce the smallest groups.

If the barrels are of equal quality. And given a hand load tuned to the gun. The gun with the fixed barrel should win. No matter how tight the tolerances, a moving barrel means there will always be variations, no matter how small, in the lockup.

Accuracy is the ability of a shooter to hit the desired target. Whether that be with their hands, or by using a ransom rest to shoot a group to test the precision pf the firearm on a target. Firearms can be precise. Accuracy is an action attributable to the shooter.

[bac1023]

I hear what you’re saying, but this is not about the shooter. To test the gun, you need to eliminate the other factors. Putting the gun in a random rest is the best way to achieve that. You can not properly measure one variable until greatly reducing or eliminating the other variables.

[Jim Watson]

Well, my most accurate pistol has a fixed barrel... a High Standard .22.

Pachmayr said a gun on their Signature system would group about 1/4" larger than its barrel in a rigid single shot test fixture.

[bac1023]

Yeah those are extremely accurate with the right ammo, Jim.

I was speaking of centerfire pistols.

[Jim Watson]

I figured you were.
Most ISSF centerfires are blowback .32 SWL wad guns, with "fixed barrels." Don't see many in NRA, though. Pardini will sell you one in .32 ACP, the XTP is said to be more accurate at 50 yards and more reliable in feeding.


Second part:
The Signature system was a means of accurizing a GM by adding parts, not hammering and filing. It looked odd by standards of the time, might be why it did not catch on. It would be just plain dowdy compared to some of the stuff coming out now.

[wild cat mccane]

The Youtube of the guy with the "1st" Drake in the US (a 40) had mondo grando brass on the ejector area of the slide of the Drake.

6:01 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0NLg0IMjKc

Have you noticed that on the redbacks?

[wild cat mccane]

Also, that changeable thumb rest. That looks SUPER easy for someone to create a fixable side rail and move over to any CZ Tactical Sport. I'm guessing it will happen or just doesn't happen for demand.


How does warranty work for Phoenix if The Attic is the only importer in the US?

[44 AMP]

Arguably most accurate semi auto pistol of the past half century, the Sig P210, does not have a fixed barrel. All the most accurate 1911's have no fixed barrel either.

I (and, I think some others) will happily argue about the Sig P210 being "the most accurate semi auto pistol of the past half century". The argument isn't that tilt barrel guns aren't or can't be accurate, some are extremely accurate, the Sig P210 being ONE of them.

My point here is the claim to "most accurate semi auto pistol" includes
EVERYTHING semi automatic, NOT just duty class center fire guns or their target variations.

If you don't want to include .22LRs, pocket guns, .38spl wadcutter match guns, or even magnum auto pistols, simply phrase the discussion topic differently.

As stated, the P210 while a very accurate pistol and arguably the most accurate in its class, its not the most accurate semi auto when compared against every other semi out there. (and its more than 50 yrs old, now...)

[MarkCO]

Well, mental gymnastics arguers and naysayers can gnash their teeth all they want. I am interested to see how it functions, feels, and the accuracy potential.

I think if I was going to run a real comparative test against say a P210 and maybe a Wilson 9mm and the Drake, I'd make a batch of very specific ammo with some HAPs, some Vit N320 and virgin brass and maybe something sexy like Koenig's 9mm Shooting Sport ammo. Heck, toss in a Koenig signature 9mm, which I am sure you have as well.

While I prefer the MagnetoSpeed, a tunnel with a Labradar and a Ransom and control the temp to 59F and humidity to 50%.

[wild cat mccane]

Yes.

Being pedantic.

I think MarkCO is right. It would be super cool to see mechanical diff and if there is any.

[bac1023]

44 AMP, let’s go with most accurate 9mm to clear up any confusion

That being said, I could certainly see the Drake outshooting my old S&W 52 38 WC pistols

[bac1023]

Well, mental gymnastics arguers and naysayers can gnash their teeth all they want. I am interested to see how it functions, feels, and the accuracy potential.

I think if I was going to run a real comparative test against say a P210 and maybe a Wilson 9mm and the Drake, I'd make a batch of very specific ammo with some HAPs, some Vit N320 and virgin brass and maybe something sexy like Koenig's 9mm Shooting Sport ammo. Heck, toss in a Koenig signature 9mm, which I am sure you have as well.

While I prefer the MagnetoSpeed, a tunnel with a Labradar and a Ransom and control the temp to 59F and humidity to 50%.

Pretty funny stuff, Mark

I think my S&WPPC9’s or Sig P210 Super Targets would give the Drake a run run for the money.

[wild cat mccane]

Gosh that statement right there makes me almost want to get the P210...WHY are you only 8 rounds!

[L. Boscoe]

I have a Les Baer that shot 1.5 in 50yd groups in his tests. I had to
mess with the grips and sights and stuff, now I like it. Looks like
the Drake has none of those issues, so you can start happy. Do they make a 45? I don't shoot 9.

[bac1023]

Yeah I have a Baer with the 1.5” guarantee as well. It’s a Monolith Heavyweight.

The Drake is currently available in 9mm and 40S&W.

[wild cat mccane]

I will say this, and not disrespect.

I really really do not care for the thinness of the trigger on the CZ design. Maybe it's just visual perception and someone could prove me wrong with a ruler, but my P226 trigger vs my Shadow 2...P226 all day long and twice on sunday.

Just feels so incredibly skinny and kinda frail.

[micromontenegro]

The tilt-barrel pistol that I would pit against anything, and that includes .22s, is not any of my P210s, but my .38 P240

[Jim Watson]

Ooh, dot's a nice gun. I think I have seen one ever, though. Didn't they eventually go over to .32 like the rest of the ISU centerfires, though?

[44 AMP]

44 AMP, let’s go with most accurate 9mm to clear up any confusion

based on this statement, you clearly missed my point.

The most accurate 9mm Parabellum (9mm Luger, aka 9x19mm, etc.) I know of is my T/C Contender. While I've never put it up against a P210 or match grade pistols, it has produced better (smaller) groups than any of the several service class semi auto 9mms I've shot it against. Good sights (mounted on the barrel) and a really great trigger allow very precise shooting.
It just takes longer to put 5 shots on target than it does with a semi auto...