1911 7.62x25 Tokarev Conversion

akinswi · July 18, 2022, 09:32 PM

Is there such a thing as a conversion for a 1911 to shoot 7.62 x25 round? My TTC doesnt fit my hand very well and the 1911 fits my hand just perfect but I love the 7.62x25 be nice if I could marry the two

**Aguila Blanca** · July 18, 2022, 09:55 PM

The rim diameter is essentially identical to the 9mm Parabellum, so you could use a 9mm slide. The problem is the overall length of the cartridge. 1911s are built around the .45 ACP cartridge, which has a C.O.A.L. of 1.275 inches. The 7.62x25 has a C.O.A.L. of 1.386 inches, so it's too long to fit into a 1911 magazine or magazine well.

A [very] remote possibility might be Armscor (Rock Island). They offer a 1911 chambered in .22 Magnum, which is also longer than .45 ACP. They make a special frame just for their .22 Magnum pistol. I don't know how close to the limit they make it, though. The nominal C.O.A.L. for .22 Magnum is 1.350 inches. That's still shorter than 1.386 inches. I don't know if the RIA .22 Magnum has enough space in the magazines to accommodate that extra .036 inches of length. I also don't know how difficult it would be to modify the .22 Magnum magazines to handle 7.62x25, and I also don't know if the larger grip on the RIA .22 magnum would fit your hand.

Jim Watson · July 18, 2022, 11:25 PM

Good news: There was a 1911 7.62 fad a while back, Numrich and J&G sold barrels.
Bad news: The round IS too long. A .38 Super magazine will hold 4 or 5 at a slant and work after a fashion.
More bad news: Slobovvian surplus has hard SMG primers, most conversions required stronger mainsprings... and lighter recoil springs.

Cheap fix: Deep seat and recrimp bullets. Hope pressures from reduced powder space aren't too high.

Real fix: Handload with flat pointed bullets and pistol primers.
But that loses the cheap surplus.

tangolima · July 19, 2022, 12:55 AM

There is no more cheap surplus. Handloads are cheaper.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

74A95 · July 19, 2022, 01:07 AM

Some information here;

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...-tokarev/99440

akinswi · July 19, 2022, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangolima

There is no more cheap surplus. Handloads are cheaper.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Tang,

You are correct, When SOG was around I bought several thousands rounds from them it was mostly that hot bulgarian ammo I didnt shoot it much in my CZ52 but I shot alot of it in my TTC. I think PPU is the only company that makes it commercial now and maybe sellior&bellot as well.

ballardw · July 19, 2022, 01:29 PM

There were some 1911 7.62x25 imported about 20 years ago that were Chinese/Vietnamese reworks.

Always wondered if using a 65 or so grain bullet such as .32ACP uses would be enough shorter to feed better in 1911 frames.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 19, 2022, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74A95

Some information here;

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...-tokarev/99440

Fascinating.

Curiosity led me to search for load data, to investigate the possibility of doing such a conversion and loading short enough to fit properly in .38 Super magazines. I can't find any load data for 7.62x25. Is there a source?

**4V50 Gary** · July 20, 2022, 07:45 PM

Will .30 Mauser load data work? Or are they at least the same pressures/MV?

74A95 · July 21, 2022, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Fascinating.

Curiosity led me to search for load data, to investigate the possibility of doing such a conversion and loading short enough to fit properly in .38 Super magazines. I can't find any load data for 7.62x25. Is there a source?

handloads:

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...tokarev/374699

Hornady, Sierra, Vihtavouri and Lyman have load data.

You can load them shorter to fit in a 1911, and this requires reducing the charge, as you know. You will need to select bullets with short noses so the shoulder is not below the case mouth. I have done this. They work fine.

Suggested bullets are the Hornady XTPs and the Speer 110 grain JHP.

74A95 · July 21, 2022, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4V50 Gary

Will .30 Mauser load data work? Or are they at least the same pressures/MV?

Yes. The 30 Mauser is slightly lower pressure, so it will be fine.

Unkl Chuck · August 14, 2022, 02:42 PM

Somehow I missed this thread when it was fresh, but I'll jump in anyway. 7.62 Tokarev and 7.63 Mauser are the same dimensions and are 'interchangeable'. Be aware that the Tok round is typically loaded to higher pressures than the Mauser round. There is much discussion on this topic elsewhere, but basically stay safe and use proper Mauser loads in your antique Mausers. Most Toks will handle the hotter loads. Be careful.
A cartridge the OP may want to consider is .30 Luger aka 7.65 X 21. A quick check showed a overall of 1.175". It would feed from a 9mm magazine. It came about because Georg Luger didn't want to use Mauser ammo in his pistol and then it became the parent of the 9mm Parabellum. Brass and dies are available, there is some load data available.
On occasion, I load and shoot each of the 3 rounds.

Jim Watson · August 14, 2022, 09:53 PM

Ol Georg shortened the cartridge because his recoil spring was in the butt, unlike Borchardt and Mauser and the 25mm case would have made the grip too wide.

July 18, 2022, 09:32 PM	#1
akinswi Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: Bowling Green, Ky Posts: 706	1911 7.62x25 Tokarev Conversion Is there such a thing as a conversion for a 1911 to shoot 7.62 x25 round? My TTC doesnt fit my hand very well and the 1911 fits my hand just perfect but I love the 7.62x25 be nice if I could marry the two

July 18, 2022, 09:55 PM	#2
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	The rim diameter is essentially identical to the 9mm Parabellum, so you could use a 9mm slide. The problem is the overall length of the cartridge. 1911s are built around the .45 ACP cartridge, which has a C.O.A.L. of 1.275 inches. The 7.62x25 has a C.O.A.L. of 1.386 inches, so it's too long to fit into a 1911 magazine or magazine well. A [very] remote possibility might be Armscor (Rock Island). They offer a 1911 chambered in .22 Magnum, which is also longer than .45 ACP. They make a special frame just for their .22 Magnum pistol. I don't know how close to the limit they make it, though. The nominal C.O.A.L. for .22 Magnum is 1.350 inches. That's still shorter than 1.386 inches. I don't know if the RIA .22 Magnum has enough space in the magazines to accommodate that extra .036 inches of length. I also don't know how difficult it would be to modify the .22 Magnum magazines to handle 7.62x25, and I also don't know if the larger grip on the RIA .22 magnum would fit your hand. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

July 19, 2022, 01:29 PM	#7
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,411	There were some 1911 7.62x25 imported about 20 years ago that were Chinese/Vietnamese reworks. Always wondered if using a 65 or so grain bullet such as .32ACP uses would be enough shorter to feed better in 1911 frames. __________________ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ All data is flawed, some just less so.

July 20, 2022, 07:45 PM	#9
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Will .30 Mauser load data work? Or are they at least the same pressures/MV? __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 18, 2022, 11:25 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	Good news: There was a 1911 7.62 fad a while back, Numrich and J&G sold barrels. Bad news: The round IS too long. A .38 Super magazine will hold 4 or 5 at a slant and work after a fashion. More bad news: Slobovvian surplus has hard SMG primers, most conversions required stronger mainsprings... and lighter recoil springs. Cheap fix: Deep seat and recrimp bullets. Hope pressures from reduced powder space aren't too high. Real fix: Handload with flat pointed bullets and pistol primers. But that loses the cheap surplus.

July 19, 2022, 12:55 AM	#4
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,816	There is no more cheap surplus. Handloads are cheaper. -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

July 19, 2022, 01:07 AM	#5
74A95 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Posts: 1,564	Some information here; https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...-tokarev/99440

August 14, 2022, 02:42 PM	#12
Unkl Chuck Member Join Date: December 21, 2012 Location: south of the piney woods,TX Posts: 64	Somehow I missed this thread when it was fresh, but I'll jump in anyway. 7.62 Tokarev and 7.63 Mauser are the same dimensions and are 'interchangeable'. Be aware that the Tok round is typically loaded to higher pressures than the Mauser round. There is much discussion on this topic elsewhere, but basically stay safe and use proper Mauser loads in your antique Mausers. Most Toks will handle the hotter loads. Be careful. A cartridge the OP may want to consider is .30 Luger aka 7.65 X 21. A quick check showed a overall of 1.175". It would feed from a 9mm magazine. It came about because Georg Luger didn't want to use Mauser ammo in his pistol and then it became the parent of the 9mm Parabellum. Brass and dies are available, there is some load data available. On occasion, I load and shoot each of the 3 rounds.

August 14, 2022, 09:53 PM	#13
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	Ol Georg shortened the cartridge because his recoil spring was in the butt, unlike Borchardt and Mauser and the 25mm case would have made the grip too wide.