My new Phoenix Drake. Will this be the most accurate semi auto pistol?

[bac1023]

I said semi auto from the start. This wasn’t supposed to be a complicated exercise

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by bac1023

I said semi auto from the start. This wasn’t supposed to be a complicated exercise

Sometimes I think the gun forums are more of an amateur debate forum.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by MarkCO

Sometimes I think the gun forums are more of an amateur debate forum.

I think it’s more often than not a case of people missing the forest for the trees.

[bac1023]

Sometimes I think the gun forums are more of an amateur debate forum.

Very true Mark

As you can surely see, I’m not making any guarantees of anything. However, I’d give the Drake as much chance as any pistol I know of to be the most inherently accurate factory semi auto centerfire pistol on average.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by bac1023

Very true Mark

As you can surely see, I’m not making any guarantees of anything. However, I’d give the Drake as much chance as any pistol I know of to be the most inherently accurate factory semi auto centerfire pistol on average.

As I mentioned above, given that you own many of the pistols to which many might compare the Drake, it seems to me that you have a unique opportunity to do more than hypothesize about the accuracy based on manufacturer claims and your own observations of fit, as astute as they may be. Absent a rest (and you can assemble something for that) you have the ability to make a direct comparison. Yes there will be caveats, but you owning all of those pistols and shooting them from one location with say the same ammunition shot by the same shooter already eliminates many of the challenges faced by others when they hypothesize about accuracy.

[bac1023]

Understood and some good points you make

[Jim Watson]

Then your next purchase should be a bona fide target pistol from somebody like Accuracy X who demonstrates X ring groups.

[44 AMP]

..all of those pistols and shooting them from one location with say the same ammunition shot by the same shooter already eliminates many of the challenges faced by others when they hypothesize about accuracy.

While shooting different guns in the same place, time, conditions, shooter all go a long way to minimizing the variables, all using the same ammo, does not, directly show you the accuracy of the guns it shows you the accuracy of those guns with THAT ammunition.

While good ammo is generally good in about everything, it is always possible that gun #1 and load A turns in match winning accuracy, and gun #2 with load A isn't as good. Gun#2 might match or even exceed gun#1 & load A with load C or load Q. Only extensive testing will show if it will, or not.

It can be misleading to declare a gun design or an individual gun accurate or not, based solely on its performance with only one, or only a very few kinds of ammo. The gun in your hands may or may not be a typical representative of the general production run. Your gun will likely be in the middle of the bell curve, but its always possible it could be at either end of the curve, only testing will tell you.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

While shooting different guns in the same place, time, conditions, shooter all go a long way to minimizing the variables, all using the same ammo, does not, directly show you the accuracy of the guns it shows you the accuracy of those guns with THAT ammunition.

I have a Bachelor's degree in applied mathematics with a concentration in statistics, and a Master's degree in decision support with much of that in crisis management and disaster planning. The concept of multiple variables is one I understand.

Ideally one would use multiple shooters (assuming not a ransom rest), multiple types of ammunition (i.e. different powder charges and projectile weights or different manufacturers and even different lots within those manufacturers if factory ammunition), multiple examples of each pistol, and heck even across different weather (Mark joked about this earlier). The list goes on.

My point (and I think this sort of illustrates my forest for the trees comment), is that the OP is in a somewhat unique position. I'm not saying he is in a position where he can unilaterally declare the most accurate pistol. I'm saying I think he can perform some interesting tests that might honestly not be possible elsewhere because of the uniqueness of his collection. While his test won't be perfect, he'll know the caveats because he ran it and I would rather someone make an honest effort and collect some data for us to read rather than not collect any data simply because it's not possible for him to exercise all variables to the fullest extent.

[kymasabe]

If I agree that its pretty, and the the most accurate handgun in the world, will that help you justify paying over 5 grand for a handgun that's probably not more accurate than a CZ or Sig?

[bac1023]

If I agree that its pretty, and the the most accurate handgun in the world, will that help you justify paying over 5 grand for a handgun that's probably not more accurate than a CZ or Sig?

Well I don’t need to justify it at all. I own dozens of guns in this price range and some a good deal more.

As for CZ and Sig, I own all of their best offerings. They aren’t what this is in any way. My German Mastershop Sigs come close, but they also sell for similar prices now.

[wild cat mccane]

Tunnelrat nailed it of course. My masters/job is in stats, but I am able to accept absolute statements.

We've given probably the most outspoken gun collector a bit of a go here for a non biblical statement. But I'd say his assessment stands better than someone just blanket saying the P210 is the most accurate which itself is based on legend.

Most accurate? Sure. More than likely the "best" fall within each other or so close it humanly doesn't matter and bac is technically wrong. But I think even the absolute statement should stand by the person stating it

[bac1023]

I actually didn’t state anything. I gave reasons why it may be the most accurate. I haven’t even shot it yet.

[wild cat mccane]

Even more the reason for friendly ribbing everyone in the thread

[bac1023]

Yes, these threads have been entertaining

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by bac1023

Yes, these threads have been entertaining

Put down the popcorn and go shoot it already!

[bac1023]

Next week Mark!!

[Siggy-06]

I’d certainly love to shoot it! I have a CZ Shadow 2 that I think has one of the best Da/Sa triggers I’ve felt in a long time. Been thinking about a Les Baer or something similar. I don’t think I could spend Phoenix kind of money on just 1 pistol when theres so many amazing options these days. Can’t wait to hear your range report!

[bac1023]

Very cool

I have a Shadow 2 Orange that shoots awesome.