.45 acp load data ?

medic0079 · January 23, 2009, 10:49 AM

So casting my own bullets got a new mold, and haven't been able to find a good recipe for the cast. it is a 200grain lee swc going into a 45acp with unique powder.. best I can find is 5.4grains figured someone out there has used this cast before, and loaded it into a 45acp
thanks
p.s. it is this cast
90310 6_CAV_H&G_68_200_SWC

Sevens · January 23, 2009, 11:33 AM

H&G 68 is the most popular cast lead bullet for .45 acp of all time.
It may very well be a contender for the most popular cast lead bullet of all time in any caliber, ever.

There is more load data available for this bullet in this caliber than perhaps any cast lead bullet anywhere, ever.

For Unique data, visit www.alliant.com
For Hodgdon, Winchester, IMR powders, try www.hodgdon.com

FALPhil · January 23, 2009, 11:36 AM

Five grains of Bullseye with a 200 gr LSWC will give you about 900fps in a 5 inch 1911. I used that load for decades, before I started using AA#5 and AA#7.

medic0079 · January 23, 2009, 05:35 PM

thanks got some bullseye ill use some of that...

**Unclenick** · January 23, 2009, 05:47 PM

Bullseye is warmer than Unique. Knock the Unique load down about 10% for similar chamber pressures. Check my seating illustration for 1911 style barrels and similar:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...0&d=1231911961

45Marlin carbine · January 23, 2009, 07:15 PM

haven't used that slug in my .45 but don't crimp any cast slug very much. just snug enough to keep it from moveing.

JackCA · January 23, 2009, 07:24 PM

Unclenick, does that PDF go for 9mm as well? My wife has a CZ 75 P01 and even though my reloads OAL are to spec, they look like the last picture, with the round sitting higher than the post. Should I shorthen them?

TEDDY · January 23, 2009, 07:52 PM

I use 700X but bullseye at 3.6 with 200 gr SWC is the target load.and I crimp
in the top band never checked for OAL.take your barrel out and drop a loaded rd in it should stop with base flush with ext on barrel.I have always felt
the roll crimp helped cart to enter chamber with out catching on edge.I never had a jam,not caused by some thing else.and I shot compitition for 30 yrs.

.45 Vet · January 23, 2009, 08:09 PM

I've always used Bullseye for 200gr .45acp. I prefer 4grs and it's still a powder-puff load, but very accurate. All of my .45acp. dies apply a "Taper crimp", and since the acp headspaces on the case mouth I don't see why you'd want to use a "Roll crimp".

Not meaning to start any thread wars, just curious.

**Unclenick** · January 23, 2009, 09:38 PM

JackCA,

Look the mechanism over, but the bottom line is the back of the case should just be flush with the breechface and no further back. If it sticks out further, the recoil spring is having to help push the cartridge into place in addition to getting gun fully into battery. That added load on the spring is an invitation to feed failures.

.45 Vet,

Back in the day when bullseye competition was pretty much the only handgun competition, the American Rifleman and several other sources would periodically publish stories on the loads and equipment that were used by the top shooters.

During that time not only shooters but top gunsmiths did a lot of experimenting with what loading techniques resulted in the greatest accuracy. The consensus, for .45 ACP, developed that a roll crimped cartridge was the ticket for lead bullets. The crimp was placed low enough on the bullet so the portion of the bearing surface that protrudes beyond the case mouth would stop the cartridge from moving too far into the chamber, should the extractor hook allow that? I recall 0.020" above the casemouth was typical.

Why would it be better? One possibility stems from the observation that military .45 ACP match ammo is more accurate than most commercial match ammo. A lot a analyzing was done, and they didn't find the bullets any better or the powder charges any more consistent than commercial loads, and less consistent than hand loads. Same for cases. It was finally worked out that the secret is the pitch the military requires to be painted as a water seal on the bullets when they were seated. It makes them stick. That raises start pressure, and as a result, the powder burns more consistently and completely. Since handgun recoil makes barrels begin to jump before the bullet clears the muzzle, it is not surprising that consistent barrel time limits vertical stringing.

I think what the roll crimp advocates discovered is another route to consistent start pressure, but for lead bullets rather than the jacketed ones the government and commercial match ammo makers issue. I believe seating out to headspace on the bullet as my illustration shows will do much the same thing, plus aligns the bullet well in the throat. I have been meaning to use one of my old seating dies to add a roll crimp to see if it improves on that loading method any further? I hope not. I would hate to shorten the long lives of my .45 ACP cases by roll crimping the mouth, but if it works better, of course I will.

MARTY9 · January 30, 2009, 11:32 AM

You Should TRY 4.8 Tite Group Shoots Great In Any Pistol I Have Shot It In. 200 GRAIN SWC

January 23, 2009, 10:49 AM	#1
medic0079 Member Join Date: November 21, 2008 Location: Gainesville FL Posts: 40	.45 acp load data ? So casting my own bullets got a new mold, and haven't been able to find a good recipe for the cast. it is a 200grain lee swc going into a 45acp with unique powder.. best I can find is 5.4grains figured someone out there has used this cast before, and loaded it into a 45acp thanks p.s. it is this cast 90310 6_CAV_H&G_68_200_SWC

January 23, 2009, 11:33 AM	#2
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	H&G 68 is the most popular cast lead bullet for .45 acp of all time. It may very well be a contender for the most popular cast lead bullet of all time in any caliber, ever. There is more load data available for this bullet in this caliber than perhaps any cast lead bullet anywhere, ever. For Unique data, visit www.alliant.com For Hodgdon, Winchester, IMR powders, try www.hodgdon.com __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 23, 2009, 07:52 PM	#8
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	45 acp I use 700X but bullseye at 3.6 with 200 gr SWC is the target load.and I crimp in the top band never checked for OAL.take your barrel out and drop a loaded rd in it should stop with base flush with ext on barrel.I have always felt the roll crimp helped cart to enter chamber with out catching on edge.I never had a jam,not caused by some thing else.and I shot compitition for 30 yrs.

January 23, 2009, 08:09 PM	#9
.45 Vet Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2004 Location: Western Penn. Posts: 387	I've always used Bullseye for 200gr .45acp. I prefer 4grs and it's still a powder-puff load, but very accurate. All of my .45acp. dies apply a "Taper crimp", and since the acp headspaces on the case mouth I don't see why you'd want to use a "Roll crimp". Not meaning to start any thread wars, just curious. __________________ For those who've never fought for it, the price of freedom shall never be known...

January 23, 2009, 09:38 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	JackCA, Look the mechanism over, but the bottom line is the back of the case should just be flush with the breechface and no further back. If it sticks out further, the recoil spring is having to help push the cartridge into place in addition to getting gun fully into battery. That added load on the spring is an invitation to feed failures. .45 Vet, Back in the day when bullseye competition was pretty much the only handgun competition, the American Rifleman and several other sources would periodically publish stories on the loads and equipment that were used by the top shooters. During that time not only shooters but top gunsmiths did a lot of experimenting with what loading techniques resulted in the greatest accuracy. The consensus, for .45 ACP, developed that a roll crimped cartridge was the ticket for lead bullets. The crimp was placed low enough on the bullet so the portion of the bearing surface that protrudes beyond the case mouth would stop the cartridge from moving too far into the chamber, should the extractor hook allow that? I recall 0.020" above the casemouth was typical. Why would it be better? One possibility stems from the observation that military .45 ACP match ammo is more accurate than most commercial match ammo. A lot a analyzing was done, and they didn't find the bullets any better or the powder charges any more consistent than commercial loads, and less consistent than hand loads. Same for cases. It was finally worked out that the secret is the pitch the military requires to be painted as a water seal on the bullets when they were seated. It makes them stick. That raises start pressure, and as a result, the powder burns more consistently and completely. Since handgun recoil makes barrels begin to jump before the bullet clears the muzzle, it is not surprising that consistent barrel time limits vertical stringing. I think what the roll crimp advocates discovered is another route to consistent start pressure, but for lead bullets rather than the jacketed ones the government and commercial match ammo makers issue. I believe seating out to headspace on the bullet as my illustration shows will do much the same thing, plus aligns the bullet well in the throat. I have been meaning to use one of my old seating dies to add a roll crimp to see if it improves on that loading method any further? I hope not. I would hate to shorten the long lives of my .45 ACP cases by roll crimping the mouth, but if it works better, of course I will. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 23, 2009, 11:36 AM	#3
FALPhil Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2007 Location: Racoon City Posts: 934	Five grains of Bullseye with a 200 gr LSWC will give you about 900fps in a 5 inch 1911. I used that load for decades, before I started using AA#5 and AA#7.

January 23, 2009, 05:35 PM	#4
medic0079 Member Join Date: November 21, 2008 Location: Gainesville FL Posts: 40	thanks got some bullseye ill use some of that...

January 23, 2009, 05:47 PM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Bullseye is warmer than Unique. Knock the Unique load down about 10% for similar chamber pressures. Check my seating illustration for 1911 style barrels and similar: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...0&d=1231911961 __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 23, 2009, 07:15 PM	#6
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	haven't used that slug in my .45 but don't crimp any cast slug very much. just snug enough to keep it from moveing.

January 23, 2009, 07:24 PM	#7
JackCA Junior Member Join Date: January 12, 2009 Posts: 10	Unclenick, does that PDF go for 9mm as well? My wife has a CZ 75 P01 and even though my reloads OAL are to spec, they look like the last picture, with the round sitting higher than the post. Should I shorthen them?

January 30, 2009, 11:32 AM	#11
MARTY9 Junior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Posts: 8	You Should TRY 4.8 Tite Group Shoots Great In Any Pistol I Have Shot It In. 200 GRAIN SWC