The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 3, 2011, 03:57 PM   #1
Boberama
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2010
Posts: 189
High velocity black powder rifles

I don't like these new high-velocity black powder rifles which fire sabots. These things are just a way to take advantage of black powder season and don't stick to the spirit of BP hunting.

If I had my way these guns would have to hunt during the regular season and BP season would be reserved for firearms which shoot RB, maxies or Miniés and don't have fiberglass or polymer stocks with expanding sabots!

Does anyone agree? I have yet to see the hunter with one of these guns who will wear buckskin and ride a horse. The guys I see with these wear camo and ride ATVs.
__________________
I just try to be really, really honest with people when I think that they suck. - Santana Lopez, Glee
Boberama is offline  
Old April 3, 2011, 04:28 PM   #2
drftrman
Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2005
Posts: 26
I agree 100%. These ole boys around here don't have a clue, nor care about true BP arms. They only see BP season as a early deer season to them. You won't see any sidelocks here. None of the local gun shops carry any black powder, wads, caps or round ball. Mostly pellets and sabots and 209 primers only. It drives me insane that I live in a rural area with 3 different hunting clubs, and I have to order stuff off the internet.
drftrman is offline  
Old April 3, 2011, 05:19 PM   #3
mykeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,772
Now I've seen it all.

A rant against in-line muzzleloaders because they're not historical enough, and the signature line contains a Lady Gaga lyric.

Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more. We're over the rainbow. - Dorothy
mykeal is offline  
Old April 3, 2011, 05:33 PM   #4
Boberama
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2010
Posts: 189
Quote:
I agree 100%. These ole boys around here don't have a clue, nor care about true BP arms. They only see BP season as a early deer season to them. You won't see any sidelocks here. None of the local gun shops carry any black powder, wads, caps or round ball. Mostly pellets and sabots and 209 primers only. It drives me insane that I live in a rural area with 3 different hunting clubs, and I have to order stuff off the internet.
It is extremely irritating to see an ad for the latest and greatest Thompson-Center inline that is all stainless and polymer.

Why can't people take things a little less seriously, stop exploiting loopholes, and use a sidelock?

I just can't stand it.

Quote:
A rant against in-line muzzleloaders because they're not historical enough, and the signature line contains a Lady Gaga lyric.
I'm a huge fan, don't even get me started! Unfortunately, at rendezvous, I can't play the music because everybody else hates it.

The regulations need to be changed so only true BP guns can be used in this season. THe newer guns are as capable as many smokless weapons. People need to get more into the old-timey mountain man spirit.

I don't want to come across sounding like a crotchety old man, but that's how I feel.
__________________
I just try to be really, really honest with people when I think that they suck. - Santana Lopez, Glee
Boberama is offline  
Old April 3, 2011, 06:03 PM   #5
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 15,217
Tell that to Mississippi.
Hawg is offline  
Old April 3, 2011, 06:36 PM   #6
B.L.E.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2008
Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX
Posts: 2,603
I only have two comments:

1. Nobody is preventing you or anyone else from using traditional muzzleloaders, wearing buckskin, or riding horses to hunt during the muzzleloading season or even the regular season.

2. Inlines are overrated.
__________________
Hanlon's Razor
"Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."
B.L.E. is offline  
Old April 3, 2011, 07:05 PM   #7
rdstrain49
Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2010
Location: South Central, Iowa
Posts: 65
Yep your right, no inlines, center fires, semi autos. While we're at it let's get rid of all firearms, modern & traditional. Make every body hunt with a bow. Wait, let's not let anybody hunt at all. Maybe even make it illegal to go outside. Every single person should stay inside and listen to Gaga puke puke.

Or maybe just maybe we (and you) could try to respect one another and be a little tolerant. That's probably too much to ask.
__________________
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." —Norman Schwartzkopf
rdstrain49 is offline  
Old April 3, 2011, 07:20 PM   #8
Boberama
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2010
Posts: 189
rdstrain49, I just don't think people should take advantage of a season originally created for old-fashioned black powder arms.

I never said, "let's ban inlines".

You don't have to insult my idol, why don't you use a reasonable tone and give good counter arguments?
__________________
I just try to be really, really honest with people when I think that they suck. - Santana Lopez, Glee
Boberama is offline  
Old April 3, 2011, 07:52 PM   #9
noelf2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2008
Location: Stafford, VA
Posts: 2,428
I prefer traditional muzzle loaders, but I don't mind if others like the more modern black powder guns and rifles. I don't think anyone is taking advantage of extra seasons by using non traditional rifles. I'm just glad they pay for the license, get outside, and kill some deer. They are a nuisance where I live. Too many of them. If someone can keep a deer from running out in front of my car by killing it with a 50 caliber Hornady SST sabot in a T/C in line rifle with 777 powder, I'll be their friend.
__________________
Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.
noelf2 is offline  
Old April 3, 2011, 09:25 PM   #10
B.L.E.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2008
Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX
Posts: 2,603
Before we had a muzzle loader only season where I lived, I had misgivings about introducing it. Nobody stopped muzzle loader enthusiasts from using their rifles during the regular hunting season and I figured a lot of hunters buying muzzleloaders strictly to extend their hunting season would have unintended consequences. The proliferation of scoped inlines using pellets and sabots bears out my prediction of unintended consequences. Before the proliferation of ML only seasons, most people who shot muzzleloaders wanted a gun like Davy Crockett used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boberama
I just don't think people should take advantage of a season originally created for old-fashioned black powder arms.
OK, where do we draw the line? "Traditional style" ok or must it be an actual replica of an original? Can the lock have coil springs? How about flintlock smoothbores with no rear sights?
__________________
Hanlon's Razor
"Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."
B.L.E. is offline  
Old April 3, 2011, 09:39 PM   #11
drftrman
Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2005
Posts: 26
I really don't have a problem with the inlines per say, just bugs me that traditional rifles are becoming more and more extinct. 5 years ago, I could walk in any gun shop here and find sidelocks, BP revolvers and all the essentials (BP,Caps,etc.) Now you can't find any traditional rifles, and forget real BP, or wads. Alot of the younger guys think that the sidelocks are more dangerous than inlines and won't even try them!
drftrman is offline  
Old April 3, 2011, 10:09 PM   #12
oilcan72
Member
 
Join Date: August 28, 2009
Location: NorthWest Indiana
Posts: 47
I don't see a problem with in lines, if that's what a person wants to use that's their choice. I like the challenge of a traditional so that is what I use. I really don't think the deer much care what they get shot with dead is dead, as long as it's a clean kill good for them.

oilcan72
oilcan72 is offline  
Old April 3, 2011, 10:21 PM   #13
arcticap
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2005
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 3,106
Way back when folks lived on the frontier, they needed to send away for everything and to have it shipped to them too. That's when the general store had a Sears or Wards catalog or such and folks had to order from that and then wait for the goods to be delivered. So mail order is a very traditional way of buying goods. It's cuts down on the overhead costs and lowers prices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boberama
The regulations need to be changed so only true BP guns can be used in this season.
If folks want to complain about the hunting regulations in their own state of residence then more power to them. But it's hard for any non-resident to justify what my state regulations should be when they don't live, vote or hunt in my state. And they don't even have a clue what my state hunting regulations are or the reasons for them and the legislative history behind them.
Folks elect their own state representatives and Governor and then those elected officials vote before any new laws are enacted.
Why don't the unhappy folks write one letter to their own state representative who they participated in electing to their own state legislature. Then they wouldn't waste their effort complaining to non-residents about their own state hunting regulations who really don't influence regulatory issues in other states.
Most every state has annual public hearings on new proposed hunting regulations. If folks are unhappy with their own state hunting regulations then they should go and voice their opinion to the officials who get paid to make the decisions in their own state.

Last edited by arcticap; April 4, 2011 at 09:56 AM.
arcticap is offline  
Old April 3, 2011, 10:37 PM   #14
Jbar4Ranch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 1999
Location: Near Helena, Montana
Posts: 1,704
We don't have a BP season here, but we do have "restricted hunting areas" that are restricted to bows, traditional handguns, shotgun, and muzzleloaders with full caliber bullets (no sabots) or round balls. These are typically areas where there are towns, homes or livestock nearby and thus are restricted to use of short range weapons. For the most part, people who use muzzleloaders in these areas couldn't care less about "authenticity", but are just more comfortable with a rifle than they are with a revolver, bow, or shotgun.
__________________
Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced...

SASS 47015
Jbar4Ranch is offline  
Old April 4, 2011, 08:19 AM   #15
Rifleman1776
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,309
I agree completely. I am a very traditional muzzle loader. Flintlock is my preference. But, things have changed. The various game and fish commissions like having more hunters in the woods. More hunters are good for local economies. The Flash Gordon in-line rifle manufacturing has become big business and state Game and Fish Commissions do not want to upset the companies that make them. We are stuck with it. I continue to do my thing with other similar thinking historical reenactors.
Rifleman1776 is offline  
Old April 4, 2011, 08:53 AM   #16
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 15,217
Mississippi has gone beyond the pale. Nobody uses muzzle loaders much anymore except traditionalists. Now you can use a breech loading cartridge gun with smokeless powder and a scope. It has to be of a design in use before 1899 and have an external hammer and be a single shot and be .35 caliber or larger. The H&R Handi Rifle in 45-70 is the weapon of choice around here but the 35 Whelen is a viable option as well as the larger smokeless calibers.
Hawg is offline  
Old April 4, 2011, 09:07 AM   #17
Jbar4Ranch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 1999
Location: Near Helena, Montana
Posts: 1,704
FWIW, when I hunt with a muzzleloader, it's normally a .54 cal flintlock Lyman Great Plains Rifle, BUT...

I have an oddity of an inline I picked up used here a decade or more back - a Pedersoli Gamma 9000 .54 cal. What makes this an odd rifle is the twist; it's not on the rifle anywhere and I can't find it online, but a cleaning rod and a Sharpie marker make it out to be about 1:60... an inline with a round ball twist, go figure. I've never seen another one, and there is very, very little info online about it - most of your hits if you search are going to be my own posts seeking information about it.

__________________
Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced...

SASS 47015
Jbar4Ranch is offline  
Old April 4, 2011, 11:04 AM   #18
Pahoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 7,799
Quote:
A rant against in-line muzzleloaders because they're not historical enough, and the signature line contains a Lady Gaga lyric.
Well, this has regressed from the usual RANT, to down right BS. We see these kind of posts about once a month and goes no where except to divide and bore some good folks. .... :barf:

I teach and promote M/L's, all M/L's. However my passion, in in my SideCockers. In-Liners really don't give a rat's backside what we think or shoot so why should we care what they shoot? The reality is that in-lines are hear to stay and their own evolution proceeds. ...

Quote:
I just don't think people should take advantage of a season originally created for old-fashioned black powder arms.
Where did it ever say that and who actually determined this. Anyone ever hear of the old Golden Rule. I have hunted in buckskins with one of my many SideLocks till I got caught in a hard rain. .....
My camp name was and is; "Grey-Smoke" Hope I don't owe you money !!!
Quote:
old-fashioned black powder arms.[/
How or why would you make this cut as some were technically, In-Lines

I never tell a man what to do with his money or his wife !!

And;
Be Safe !!!
Pahoo is offline  
Old April 8, 2011, 08:17 PM   #19
troy_mclure
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: gulf of mexico
Posts: 2,716
some states do not allow rifle hunting, so an inline muzzloader is the best option.

i like hunting with both, but if the weather is crap or the range is beyond 100m ill take the inline any day.
__________________
There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
troy_mclure is offline  
Old April 8, 2011, 11:31 PM   #20
radom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2000
Posts: 1,298
And some states ban using inline moderan style rifles in muzzle loader seasions.
radom is offline  
Old April 9, 2011, 06:51 AM   #21
troy_mclure
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: gulf of mexico
Posts: 2,716
yep, Pennsylvania requires a flintlock. look up Pennsylvania special muzzloaders. flintlock rifle with synthetic stock and f/o sights.
__________________
There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
troy_mclure is offline  
Old April 9, 2011, 08:14 AM   #22
thallub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 2,921
It's really easy: If you don't like inline guns don't use them. Don't rant and rave about those who do use inline guns.
thallub is offline  
Old April 9, 2011, 10:31 AM   #23
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 20,611
I don't like inlines and don't own one myself. That said, the use of the inline during muzzle loading season illustrates how a loophole can be exploited by others. Pennsylvania has seen fit to close that loophole. It remains whether other states will follow the Keystone state's example.

I still think the best way to convert an inliner is to show them the advantage of an Enfield musketoon. Hits out to 350 yards with accuracy with a heavier 535 grain bullet.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old April 9, 2011, 03:45 PM   #24
troy_mclure
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: gulf of mexico
Posts: 2,716
but what most of the "classic only" guys dont seem to realize is that a quality inline cost as little as 1/4 the cost of a quality flintlock, and 1/2 of a quality percussion.

so a person is able o get into black powder shooting fairly inexpensively.

plus flintlocks and percussion rifles require some basic knowledge that many people dont have the opportunity to learn.

as well as finding any non inline bullets and powder is very hard to do these days. whereas you can find inline stuff anywhere.
__________________
There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
troy_mclure is offline  
Old April 9, 2011, 11:11 PM   #25
B.L.E.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2008
Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX
Posts: 2,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by troy_mclure
yep, Pennsylvania requires a flintlock. look up Pennsylvania special muzzloaders. flintlock rifle with synthetic stock and f/o sights.
LOL, that's just human nature I guess, make a flintlock only rule and somebody comes up with the "compound bow" version of the flintlock.
__________________
Hanlon's Razor
"Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."
B.L.E. is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.45664 seconds with 10 queries