July 6, 2010, 03:17 PM | #1 |
Member
Join Date: May 2, 2010
Posts: 59
|
Hawken
Bought a used Charles Daley 50 Cal Hawken about 15 yrs ago in excellent condition for $125. It looks just like the Hawken that Cabelas is selling
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...equestid=73262 The Barrel on mine is marked Made in Italy for Charles Daly with the proof mark AH under a star and PN under a star along with some type of shield under a star. Never paid much attention to who actually made it, the gun is a very nice shooter. But now I am kind of curious, Naturally Cabelas does not say who is making theirs either. Anyone got any ideas about the proof marks on mine. Thanks
__________________
"If it wasn't for all the mistakes I've made I could have had a perfect record". JakeSnakeSlim Last edited by JakeSnakeSlim; July 7, 2010 at 07:24 AM. |
July 6, 2010, 03:35 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 26, 2006
Posts: 1,161
|
Made by InvestArms in Italy.
|
July 6, 2010, 04:30 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 4,678
|
FWIW, Investarms is the current maker of the Lyman muzzleloaders - the Great Plains Rifle (GPR) and the Great Plains Hunter (GPH), and most likely several others as well.
. |
July 7, 2010, 05:50 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,772
|
I have no idea what AH under a star stands for, but the PN under a star and the shield under a star are the marks of the Italian proof houses for black powder guns.
If the AH were in a square box without the star it would be the Italian date code for a gun proofed in 1981. |
July 7, 2010, 07:20 AM | #5 |
Member
Join Date: May 2, 2010
Posts: 59
|
Just checked it again---Yes the AH is in a square box, no star over it as I had remembered. Also next to the Black Powder Only stamp on the barrel there is a large I in a box, probably for Investarms as others suggested.
Thanks for the info
__________________
"If it wasn't for all the mistakes I've made I could have had a perfect record". JakeSnakeSlim |
July 7, 2010, 05:50 PM | #6 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,188
|
Quote:
|
|
July 8, 2010, 11:10 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 4, 2005
Location: Mojave Desert, CA
Posts: 1,195
|
Date codes & markin's
AH in a box is a date code 1981...see below.
Using Roman Numerials, starting with 1954 as 'X'. X = 1954 XI = 1955 XII = 1956 XIII = 1957 XIV = 1958 XV = 1959 XVI = 1960 XVII = 1961 XVIII= 1962 XIX = 1963 XX = 1964 ...continues without skipping until XXVI = 1970 Then, for some reason not really explained, they switched to: XX7 = 1971 XX8 = 1972 XX9 = 1973 Then back to: XXX = 1974 Then it changes to a letter code. Should be simple, but they skipped various letters throughout the "A" code, then decided to skip OTHER letters through out the "B" code. Didn't want to make it too easy I guess. AA=1975 AB=1976 AC=1977 AD=1978 AE=1979 AF=1980 AH=1981 (notice they skip AG) AI=1982 AL=1983 (skipped AJ and AK) AM=1984 AN=1985 AP=1986 (skipping AO) AS=1987 (skiping AQ and AR) AT=1988 AU=1989 AZ=1990 (skipping AV,AW,AX, and AY) BA=1991 BB=1992 BC=1993 BD=1994 BF=1995 (skipping BE) BH=1996 (skipping BG) BI=1997 BL=1998 (skipping BJ and BK) BM=1999 BN=2000 BP=2001 (skipping BO) BS=2002 BT=2003 BU=2004 BV=2005 BW=2006 BX=2007 BY=2008 (Bought a Pietta 1860 new in dec. 08 with this code) Do not know how the letter code continues...or why they selected the letters to skip. There will be proof marks (usually two). One of them will be a PN marking...this is a black powder proof. Have had people show that to me and claim that their gun is nitro proofed (thinking PN is for Proof Nitro)..it is not...that's a black powder proof. Will USUALLY be a maker's stamp...but not always. In the early years, was common to have whoever improrted the gun supply whatever stamps they wanted..Navy Arms, Replica Arms, Sile, CVA, etc. But it all boils down to a few makers. Common ones are: (aside from writting the company name out): Pedersoli usually uses "DAP" or "dp". Uberti usualy uses a "U" surroumded by an octogon outline...the octogon to represent a barrel outline. Pietta Usually uses a "FAP" in a horizontal diamond outline. Palmetto (who made a lot of Dixie Gun Works reproductions) uses a palm tree in a circle. Armi San Palo uses a DGG..this is also found on EuroArms (as they are more or less the same maker now). OFten harde to figure out as they overlap the DGG. Armi Sport will usually use a "AC" in a circle. The Colt first and second generation guns were made in Italy as well...but only as rough parts, the fit and finish by Colt, so only Colt's marking are on the guns. To add to the fustration, have run across black powder guns without any marks at all...some with Japanese symbols...and some with what is either Pakastani or Alien heiroglyphs. ------ The location of the marks changes over the years...and the good news is that the more recent Uberti guns (2004) are more subtle. Thee is also a tendency in newer guns to serial number mor5e parts..old Uberti's had one serial number (on the frame's bottom at the junction with the barrel)...now they have both the barrel and frame serial numbdered as well as the barrel wedge. The Born-on-date is stamped next to these serial numbers (smaller, but still following the pattern of letter codes).
__________________
"I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php |
July 9, 2010, 10:51 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 19, 2008
Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 2,113
|
SG, The date code list I have goes like this:
BN = 2000 BP = 2001 BS = 2002 BT = 2003 BU = 2004 BZ = 2005 CA = 2006 CB = 2007 CC = 2008 CD = 2009 From 6th Edition BP Arms Blue Book FM
__________________
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce |
July 9, 2010, 11:56 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,188
|
This is the one I use.
|
July 9, 2010, 12:21 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,188
|
SG yours leaves out the entire C series and I have one marked CA and had one marked CB.
|
July 9, 2010, 07:02 PM | #11 |
Member
Join Date: May 2, 2010
Posts: 59
|
You guys are a wealth of information. Better than going to college.
Thanks
__________________
"If it wasn't for all the mistakes I've made I could have had a perfect record". JakeSnakeSlim |
July 12, 2010, 02:48 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 27, 2008
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 334
|
I have a recent Lyman Trade Rifle (Hawkin pattern) that was made by Investarms. Excellent gun. Very accurate and easy to maintain. It has all coil spring lockwork. Not traditional but it sure does work good.
|
July 12, 2010, 02:55 PM | #13 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 14, 2009
Location: Sunny Southern Idaho
Posts: 1,909
|
Quote:
__________________
Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|