Lead pot annealing time

oldandslow · May 11, 2018, 05:24 AM

Greetings,

With the great component deficiency of a few years ago I started lead casting to feed my guns. I did about ten thousand boolits for both rifles and pistols. Now that decently priced bullets are in abundance I no longer cast.

I'm presently doing load development in my Howa 30-06 with 150 grain bullets from Speer, Sierra, Nosler, and Berger. The goal is 1moa accuracy and I have had some success.

My question comes in lead pot annealing which is an economical (I have all the equipment) method to get repeatable temps around the whole neck and shoulders. My pot runs at 800 deg. F (thermometer measured) and I hold each fired case (with fired primer in place) for 8 seconds with a welding glove and then drop it in water to limit the heat going down the case body. I am getting no leading inside the case neck and a bit on the outside neck which comes off easily with a paper towel or wire brush. Dipping in motor mica made no difference.

I am having trouble finding a definitive answer on how long to immerse the case. The Giraud website says 6.5-8 seconds for their gas torch annealing machine at 750 degrees. Most of the websites say it takes "a few seconds" at 750-800 degrees. Most of these same sites say it's too dangerous for the same reasons that are given for routine lead boolit casting ("deadly fumes, a drop of sweat in the pot will cause an explosion," etc).

Any suggestions on hard data that gives me an idea of the time needed to hold a case in the lead bath for proper annealing?

thanks- oldandslow

BBarn · May 11, 2018, 10:04 AM

I don't have any suggestions with regard to time in the pot, but I would remove the prmers first to provide a vent should any pressure build up.

RC20 · May 11, 2018, 01:09 PM

REED FLAG ALERT:

What raises a red flag is 8 seconds and you have heat transferred the temp to the whole case. You anneal the base and you are into KABOOM risk. The base is NOT to be softened, it has to be hard.

While the gloves are a good safety feature, they also insulate you from feeling how hot the case is. If you cannot hold it with your fingers its over 200 degrees.

You can put paint on Templiaq below the shoulder and see how far you have pushed it (and need to, your done cases could be bombs)

For the rest,

At 800 degrees you have no latitude. That is the max temperature, in and out and you are there and longer over (my opinion, that time thing is a bugger)

Realistically that is all its going to take as the case is very thin and the heat transfer time is about zero.

You might get some idea with the pain on Templiaq (inside the case) hard telling if the lead is going in or held out by the air pressure.

I would drop the pot temperature down to 750 degrees.

My setup (Induction) take about 2 seconds with 7.5 Swiss, 308 and 30-06.

Ad most of us do not have Jeephammers tools, you then have to go with secondary cross checks.

The case appearance while not good to use as an indicator when heating, will have some visual difference (a tendency to have a silvery look) and or slight discoloration.

That should polish off in 3 or 4 tumbling sessions. If it does not you have over cooked the neck and shoulder.

I have used ammo that has been over annealed. It still shoots ok.

Back to, over cooked the neck and shoulders in and of itself is not a safety issue. Some loss in accuracy but not like it opens up to 2 or 3 inches, just more 1 MOA is the best.

Overcooking the rest of the case IS DANGEROUS!

lordmorgul · May 11, 2018, 02:08 PM

You should consider using steel blasting shot in a lead pot instead. The safety provided is well worth it. While casting bullets you’re not continually introducing impurities and garbage from the cases to your liquid lead... the chance that you get garbage in there that causes splatter or smoking is real.

Annealing with Hot Sand?
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...5&share_type=t

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, SAF / CRPA / FPC member and supporter, USCCA Member

May 11, 2018, 05:24 AM	#1
oldandslow Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2007 Posts: 641	Lead pot annealing time Greetings, With the great component deficiency of a few years ago I started lead casting to feed my guns. I did about ten thousand boolits for both rifles and pistols. Now that decently priced bullets are in abundance I no longer cast. I'm presently doing load development in my Howa 30-06 with 150 grain bullets from Speer, Sierra, Nosler, and Berger. The goal is 1moa accuracy and I have had some success. My question comes in lead pot annealing which is an economical (I have all the equipment) method to get repeatable temps around the whole neck and shoulders. My pot runs at 800 deg. F (thermometer measured) and I hold each fired case (with fired primer in place) for 8 seconds with a welding glove and then drop it in water to limit the heat going down the case body. I am getting no leading inside the case neck and a bit on the outside neck which comes off easily with a paper towel or wire brush. Dipping in motor mica made no difference. I am having trouble finding a definitive answer on how long to immerse the case. The Giraud website says 6.5-8 seconds for their gas torch annealing machine at 750 degrees. Most of the websites say it takes "a few seconds" at 750-800 degrees. Most of these same sites say it's too dangerous for the same reasons that are given for routine lead boolit casting ("deadly fumes, a drop of sweat in the pot will cause an explosion," etc). Any suggestions on hard data that gives me an idea of the time needed to hold a case in the lead bath for proper annealing? thanks- oldandslow

May 11, 2018, 01:09 PM	#3
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	REED FLAG ALERT: What raises a red flag is 8 seconds and you have heat transferred the temp to the whole case. You anneal the base and you are into KABOOM risk. The base is NOT to be softened, it has to be hard. While the gloves are a good safety feature, they also insulate you from feeling how hot the case is. If you cannot hold it with your fingers its over 200 degrees. You can put paint on Templiaq below the shoulder and see how far you have pushed it (and need to, your done cases could be bombs) For the rest, At 800 degrees you have no latitude. That is the max temperature, in and out and you are there and longer over (my opinion, that time thing is a bugger) Realistically that is all its going to take as the case is very thin and the heat transfer time is about zero. You might get some idea with the pain on Templiaq (inside the case) hard telling if the lead is going in or held out by the air pressure. I would drop the pot temperature down to 750 degrees. My setup (Induction) take about 2 seconds with 7.5 Swiss, 308 and 30-06. Ad most of us do not have Jeephammers tools, you then have to go with secondary cross checks. The case appearance while not good to use as an indicator when heating, will have some visual difference (a tendency to have a silvery look) and or slight discoloration. That should polish off in 3 or 4 tumbling sessions. If it does not you have over cooked the neck and shoulder. I have used ammo that has been over annealed. It still shoots ok. Back to, over cooked the neck and shoulders in and of itself is not a safety issue. Some loss in accuracy but not like it opens up to 2 or 3 inches, just more 1 MOA is the best. Overcooking the rest of the case IS DANGEROUS! __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not Last edited by RC20; May 11, 2018 at 01:22 PM.

May 11, 2018, 10:04 AM	#2
BBarn Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2015 Posts: 887	I don't have any suggestions with regard to time in the pot, but I would remove the prmers first to provide a vent should any pressure build up.

May 11, 2018, 02:08 PM	#4
lordmorgul Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2016 Posts: 206	You should consider using steel blasting shot in a lead pot instead. The safety provided is well worth it. While casting bullets you’re not continually introducing impurities and garbage from the cases to your liquid lead... the chance that you get garbage in there that causes splatter or smoking is real. Annealing with Hot Sand? https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...5&share_type=t Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Andrew - Lancaster, CA NRA Life Member, SAF / CRPA / FPC member and supporter, USCCA Member