Tell me about 200 grain 10MM - Page 2

Astocks2622 · May 13, 2018, 10:37 AM

What doesn't seem to have been mentioned is penetration. You don't want a hot 200gr 10mm for 2 legged self defense. Every load I've seen seriously over penetrates for that use.
I carry a 10mm in Alaska regularly. If I'm in the woods, I have a mag with 200gr hardcast handloads running 1250 fps in the gun. If I'm around town, I have 155gr Gold Dot handloads in the gun, with a spare mag of the 200's in the truck. The 155's are pushing 1450 fps, only penetrate 13-14 inches, and dump a huge amount of energy. I've never caught one of the 200 gr bullets in gel.
I would keep using two tailored loads for whatever you're doing. That's where the versatility of the 10mm really shines.

(You can also have some fun with bunny fart loads. I have a load with a 180 plated bullet doing about 750 fps. Just barely cycles the slide. It's loads of fun to mix a few of those in a mag of full power and see just how badly you really are flinching...)

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

If you're only buying loaded ammo, I would go with Underwood ammo for maximum performance and fair price.
For example, this is the SD load I was trying to duplicate with my handloads.
https://underwoodammo.com/product/ha...-hollow-point/
Their 200gr Hardcast load is similar
https://underwoodammo.com/product/ha...ast-flat-nose/

Most people are reporting about 100fps drop or of the G29 compared to a full size gun.

Good luck!

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

Oysterboy · May 13, 2018, 01:11 PM

Chronographed by a member on another forum:

G29:

180 Underwood Gold Dot 1231 fps 606 fpe (loaded 1350 at the time)
180 Georgia Arms Gold Dot 1185 561 fpe
180 Underwood XTP 1267 642 fpe (" 1350 ")
200 Underwood XTP 1143 580 fpe (" 1250 ")
175 Hornady Critical Duty 1077 451
175 Critical Duty 1083 (2nd chrono) 456 fpe
175 Winchester Silvertip 1129 496 fpe

9x25 Uw 124 XTP - 1522 638 fpe

wild cat mccane · May 13, 2018, 02:13 PM

Honest question on "woods" hard casts:

Have you ever heard of a copper jacketed FMJ deforming...ever? In any round?

**JohnKSa** · May 13, 2018, 02:21 PM

Hitting bone can deform an FMJ pistol bullet.

wild cat mccane · May 13, 2018, 02:22 PM

The reason I say this, even Underwood doesn't see the point of it...(9mm FMJ no less)

https://underwoodammo.com/product/ha...-metal-jacket/

"FMJ-FN bullets are non-expanding, powerfully penetrative bullets that are designed with your woods defense needs in mind; whether fending off wild hogs or black bears,"

**JohnKSa** · May 13, 2018, 02:28 PM

Quote:

... even Underwood doesn't see the point of it...

That's a good point--FMJ is going to deform in the same sorts of circumstances that hard cast would deform.

I think the primary benefits of hard cast are cost and the wider range of bullet shapes available.

wild cat mccane · May 13, 2018, 03:27 PM

I might just have learned something...but I'm 90% sure hard cast is more expensive than any FMJ, even Underwoods +P+ FMJ.

The rub is, if FMJ is as good at doing what hard cast 10mm can do...well, a 40 FMJ or a 9mm FMJ is going to do about the same thing--just like Underwood says on it's website. So, the 10mm doesn't really do anything particularly better.

For defense, I would take the performance of Fedearl HST or Speer Gold Got over Speer's Uni Core Bonded old design bullets any day for defense--no matter the FPS behind the Bonded bullet.

For "woods," I would also think an XTP 40 is going to perform about right at what the hot 10mm XTP does too--deep with less immediate expansion than HST or Gold Dots. Since Hornady XTP is the only real HP hunting round loaded for 10mm, 40, and 9mm...gosh I wish I could find the magic of the 10mm and buy a Glock 20 already. I really, REALLY do.

*Recall, Speer (Gold Dot) and Federal (HST) are owned by the same company. Speer has a new 10mm Gold Dot round this year. Speed is about at 40. I bet Speer knows the limits of a Gold Dot better than Underwood/Buffalo Bore/Double Tap. Speer is not currently marketing its Uni Core Bonded bullet as a hunting round. Those three companies kinda do...

**JohnKSa** · May 13, 2018, 03:37 PM

Quote:

...but I'm 90% sure hard cast is more expensive than any FMJ, even Underwoods +P+ FMJ.

Probably true in terms of loaded ammo. I was thinking of people who cast their own or buy them as components.

wild cat mccane · May 13, 2018, 08:19 PM

Gotcha.

Welp, I think we just destroyed the myth of 10mm being special and there wasn't a single disagreement.

Oysterboy · May 13, 2018, 09:20 PM

IMO the 10mm is just right. It's not as big as the 44mag nor as long as the 357mag but in a magnum class by itself.

My Glock G29 is a sub-compact and chambered for 10mm. Using Uw 10mm 180 or Fenix 10mm 180 there's plenty of energy coming out of this little pistol.

agtman · May 14, 2018, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Probably true in terms of loaded ammo. I was thinking of people who cast their own or buy them as components.

Yep. I handload the 220gn FP 10mm poly-coated hardcasts from SNS Casting at over 1200fps with zero issues, including leading up the stock Glock barrel.

http://www.snscasting.com/40-s-w-220...-coated-500ct/

These have proven super-accurate out of my G40 (factory 6.2" tube), and are reasonably priced.

While there's nothing wrong with keeping a few boxes of similar factory 10mm hardcast ammo around (like BB's or UW's), the cost-saving of reloading is obvious.

Word.

tipoc · May 14, 2018, 06:21 PM

Quote:

The rub is, if FMJ is as good at doing what hard cast 10mm can do...well, a 40 FMJ or a 9mm FMJ is going to do about the same thing--just like Underwood says on it's website. So, the 10mm doesn't really do anything particularly better.

Note the difference that it is FMJ-FN (flat nose) that they are speaking of. So if you cast your own or buy alternative bullets the terminal effectiveness of a different bullet shape does offer differences and the potential of a more effective bullet for the job.

tipoc

Don P · May 14, 2018, 07:57 PM

And there's the rub using taylored hand loads for self defense. And then the argument started.

wild cat mccane · May 14, 2018, 08:37 PM

I've read that a flat nose small cross section doesn't do anything (crush more tissue) until you get into larger bullets. ie, in the 9mm a flat nose won't "crush more."

BUT since we are talking 40 or 10mm, the bullet is a flat nose.

Since I have never once heard of a deforming FMJ (soft lead in a minimal copper jacket), I have heard of 9mm FMJ going for feet in ballistic gel, I'm not sure a hard cast 10mm does anything special that a 40 FMJ can't do.

May 13, 2018, 02:21 PM	#29
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,973	Hitting bone can deform an FMJ pistol bullet. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

May 13, 2018, 03:27 PM	#32
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,625	I might just have learned something...but I'm 90% sure hard cast is more expensive than any FMJ, even Underwoods +P+ FMJ. The rub is, if FMJ is as good at doing what hard cast 10mm can do...well, a 40 FMJ or a 9mm FMJ is going to do about the same thing--just like Underwood says on it's website. So, the 10mm doesn't really do anything particularly better. For defense, I would take the performance of Fedearl HST or Speer Gold Got over Speer's Uni Core Bonded old design bullets any day for defense--no matter the FPS behind the Bonded bullet. For "woods," I would also think an XTP 40 is going to perform about right at what the hot 10mm XTP does too--deep with less immediate expansion than HST or Gold Dots. Since Hornady XTP is the only real HP hunting round loaded for 10mm, 40, and 9mm...gosh I wish I could find the magic of the 10mm and buy a Glock 20 already. I really, REALLY do. Recall, Speer (Gold Dot) and Federal (HST) are owned by the same company. Speer has a new 10mm Gold Dot round this year. Speed is about at 40. I bet Speer knows the limits of a Gold Dot better than Underwood/Buffalo Bore/Double Tap. Speer is not currently marketing its Uni Core Bonded bullet as a hunting round. Those three companies kinda do... Last edited by wild cat mccane; May 13, 2018 at 03:35 PM.*

May 14, 2018, 07:57 PM	#38
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	And there's the rub using taylored hand loads for self defense. And then the argument started. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

May 13, 2018, 10:37 AM	#26
Astocks2622 Member Join Date: February 1, 2014 Posts: 97	What doesn't seem to have been mentioned is penetration. You don't want a hot 200gr 10mm for 2 legged self defense. Every load I've seen seriously over penetrates for that use. I carry a 10mm in Alaska regularly. If I'm in the woods, I have a mag with 200gr hardcast handloads running 1250 fps in the gun. If I'm around town, I have 155gr Gold Dot handloads in the gun, with a spare mag of the 200's in the truck. The 155's are pushing 1450 fps, only penetrate 13-14 inches, and dump a huge amount of energy. I've never caught one of the 200 gr bullets in gel. I would keep using two tailored loads for whatever you're doing. That's where the versatility of the 10mm really shines. (You can also have some fun with bunny fart loads. I have a load with a 180 plated bullet doing about 750 fps. Just barely cycles the slide. It's loads of fun to mix a few of those in a mag of full power and see just how badly you really are flinching...) Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk If you're only buying loaded ammo, I would go with Underwood ammo for maximum performance and fair price. For example, this is the SD load I was trying to duplicate with my handloads. https://underwoodammo.com/product/ha...-hollow-point/ Their 200gr Hardcast load is similar https://underwoodammo.com/product/ha...ast-flat-nose/ Most people are reporting about 100fps drop or of the G29 compared to a full size gun. Good luck! Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

May 13, 2018, 01:11 PM	#27
Oysterboy Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 970	Chronographed by a member on another forum: G29: 180 Underwood Gold Dot 1231 fps 606 fpe (loaded 1350 at the time) 180 Georgia Arms Gold Dot 1185 561 fpe 180 Underwood XTP 1267 642 fpe (" 1350 ") 200 Underwood XTP 1143 580 fpe (" 1250 ") 175 Hornady Critical Duty 1077 451 175 Critical Duty 1083 (2nd chrono) 456 fpe 175 Winchester Silvertip 1129 496 fpe 9x25 Uw 124 XTP - 1522 638 fpe

May 13, 2018, 02:13 PM	#28
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,625	Honest question on "woods" hard casts: Have you ever heard of a copper jacketed FMJ deforming...ever? In any round?

May 13, 2018, 02:22 PM	#30
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,625	The reason I say this, even Underwood doesn't see the point of it...(9mm FMJ no less) https://underwoodammo.com/product/ha...-metal-jacket/ "FMJ-FN bullets are non-expanding, powerfully penetrative bullets that are designed with your woods defense needs in mind; whether fending off wild hogs or black bears,"

May 13, 2018, 08:19 PM	#34
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,625	Gotcha. Welp, I think we just destroyed the myth of 10mm being special and there wasn't a single disagreement.

May 13, 2018, 09:20 PM	#35
Oysterboy Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 970	IMO the 10mm is just right. It's not as big as the 44mag nor as long as the 357mag but in a magnum class by itself. My Glock G29 is a sub-compact and chambered for 10mm. Using Uw 10mm 180 or Fenix 10mm 180 there's plenty of energy coming out of this little pistol.

May 14, 2018, 08:37 PM	#39
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,625	I've read that a flat nose small cross section doesn't do anything (crush more tissue) until you get into larger bullets. ie, in the 9mm a flat nose won't "crush more." BUT since we are talking 40 or 10mm, the bullet is a flat nose. Since I have never once heard of a deforming FMJ (soft lead in a minimal copper jacket), I have heard of 9mm FMJ going for feet in ballistic gel, I'm not sure a hard cast 10mm does anything special that a 40 FMJ can't do.