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Old January 13, 2019, 04:20 PM   #51
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP
Quote:
HOWEVER, according to a cop I talked to at a gun show, as soon as you get into your car with that weapon (unless you're heading to the range or a gun shop), it is now concealed once you close your car door, even if it is on the seat next to you exposed.
I'd suggest that a cop at a gun show is NOT qualified legal advice. No cop anywhere is, and there's nothing penalizing them if they give you completely inaccurate information. Look at the laws, yourself, or get a lawyer to do it and give you a qualified professional legal opinion (and for a fee) but don't take a cop's advice as fact just because they are a cop. Trust, but VERIFY!
My understanding as a PA LTCF holder who has spent several years on the PAFOA forum trying to understand the laws is that what M88 wrote is exactly correct. Except for Philadelphia, PA is an open carry w/o license state (except when under a state of emergency, and I believe one is still technically in effect), but that applies only to carry on the person, outside of a vehicle. Once in a vehicle, different rules kick in.
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Old January 13, 2019, 06:07 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP
Cop A may tell you something, and Cop B bust you for doing exactly what Cop A said. Get independent advice from other sources, and you are better informed.
Good advice for sure 44. As I posted in this thread earlier, I've gotten different advice from different MD state cops when I called about bringing my AR-556 with 30 rd mags into MD to a buddies rural farm to shoot. Never did get a strait answer and not going to post on a public forum exactly what I did as a result!

I have to admit that since I have a PA CC permit, I never bothered to get exact correct info re: whether a gun INSIDE of a car is considered concealed. With my permit... it didn't matter, and thus I didn't really take the time to dig further. However, seems like the advice given by that cop at the gun show according to Aguilar was correct. once the gun is inside the car, different rules apply. That seems as silly as 44's example of an unloaded gun being called loaded if the bullets are in the same compartment. How do they get away with nonsense like that?

Frustrating to us that even if we want to follow the law to the letter, we can't easily know exactly what the laws ARE. Add to that that those laws change. A politician gets elected and wants to make some points by telling his constituency he/she will make them "safer", which is usually a fallacy at minimum, and often has the opposite effect.

As for "military grade"... I do wish there was a more definitive definition rather than the nebulous and often confusing way it's used today.
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Old January 13, 2019, 06:09 PM   #53
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oops... that post about the AR-556 may have been in another thread...
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Old January 13, 2019, 06:17 PM   #54
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Military Grade means acceptable by the military......... Usually from the lowest bidder. It may also mean that all the paperwork was filled out correctly and have nothing to do with quality. Been there done that.
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Old January 13, 2019, 10:54 PM   #55
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That seems as silly as 44's example of an unloaded gun being called loaded if the bullets are in the same compartment. How do they get away with nonsense like that?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the principle is called "constructive possession".

It's a very useful idea for arresting people before they actually commit the crime. Sometimes, we think its a good thing, like when they prosecute a bomber who didn't set off a bomb, or better yet, before he even builds one. Other applications? I'm not really good with. I don't think its right to say a gun is loaded when it isn't, but reason cannot upset the law, so they say..

DOT regs about transport of firearms and state laws may NOT be identical.
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Old January 14, 2019, 01:28 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP
It's a very useful idea for arresting people before they actually commit the crime. Sometimes, we think its a good thing, like when they prosecute a bomber who didn't set off a bomb...
It's not a simple world, that's for sure. This is yet another example of there always being two sides to every story or idea. I looked into "constructive possession", and yes there are situations where it's a good thing. If it looks like a criminal duck and quacks like a criminal duck, do you have to wait till it spreads its criminal duck wings and flies away before you can apprehend it? Still... the magazine sitting NEXT to the gun or in the same glove box, while making it easy to quickly load the gun, still doesn't make it a loaded gun. That said, from a legal standpoint, maybe referring to intent?... I can see the other sides argument. Example, while I don't necessarily like it, I'm OK with FOPA telling me I have to keep my guns locked and unloaded crossing state lines where my CC permit is not recognized, and my ammo in a separate part of the car.
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Old January 14, 2019, 04:15 AM   #57
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Here's the applicable Pennsylvania law: https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs...tn=6&subsctn=0

Quote:
ยง 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

(a) Offense defined.--

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

(2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.
A couple of things to note: The law does not make carrying in a vehicle "concealed" carry -- carrying in a vehicle is addressed as a separate issue from concealed carry outside of a vehicle. Second, note that paragraph (2) says if you are otherwise eligible for a license to carry, unlicensed vehicle carry is a misdemeanor rather than a felony. Still a crime, but a lesser crime.

There are a bunch of exceptions, too -- refer to the link to review them.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; January 16, 2019 at 01:12 AM. Reason: typo
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Old January 15, 2019, 05:37 PM   #58
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Military grade means nothing. As noted above, it is a marketing term. "Weapons of war" is the same. These people have been brainwashed into thinking that the firearms are the problem, not their children and the violent videos and movies they watch. Not a diatribe on training videos, but the military uses similar tools to train people to shoot other people. From a defect elimination perspective, you generally go after things that are causing the highest number of undesirable results. Generally, you go after the largest numbers first, which in the case of violent crimes means hand/feet, clubs, knives, cars, and firearms are waaaay down the list. Or if you want to eliminate deaths, go after obesity, alcohol, prescription drugs, illegal drugs, and again, firearms are way down the list. But the things that bother me the most about people vilifying firearms is that it is an unreasoning desire to ban a tool that can be used for good or bad, not the desire to eliminate the underlying causes, and the ignoring or facts and lying to make their point. If you have to resort to lies, you are on shaky ground morally/ethically anyway.

And trying to stop people from commiting crimes before they have committed a crime is just so wrong from so many perspectives. Like the candidates that claimed they would go after and kill NRA members. Really? What possible justification do you have before someone commits a crime? If I shoot someone in the street because they "might have hurt me" I would probably be a candidate for capital punishment. Same applies to state/local government, you have to wait for the person to actually commit a crime before you take action against them.
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Old January 16, 2019, 01:43 PM   #59
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Or if you want to eliminate deaths, go after obesity, alcohol, prescription drugs, illegal drugs, and again, firearms are way down the list.
And if you succeed, we can all die thin, sober, in pain, straight, and disarmed.

We all die of something, pretending otherwise is fooling yourself. Violent behavior cannot be prevented by anyone but the individual. It can be controlled, only by each and every one of us, as individuals.

I understand the frightened soccer mom wanting "weapons of war off our streets". But, that is a much, much different thing than taking those weapons out of our hands.

I hold the opinion that owning and possessing "military grade" weapons are our right, and beyond that it our duty and responsibility. Its that whole "militia" thing that is so unpopular with so many people today.

Having such things, and using them responsibly is our right. Criminal misuse is not. You don't ban fire because someone commits arson. You punish the arsonist, not the people who didn't burn anything.
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Old January 16, 2019, 07:01 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by M88 View Post
..."military grade" means practically nothing....
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Old January 16, 2019, 10:05 PM   #61
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Years ago during military freefall practice (HALO) training we were allowed to use our personal parachutes. We always reminded the pilots, that thought we were crazy, that their parachutes were supplied by the lowest bidder.
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Old January 16, 2019, 10:33 PM   #62
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supplied by the lowest bidder.
Contracts are not always awarded by low bid. Best value is also a common award standard
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