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Old January 5, 2019, 09:32 PM   #1
Dano4734
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NY safe act confusion

So i ask my local police chief exactly how many rounds are we allowed. He said ten. I asked a nys trooper he said seven, i ask the deputy sheriff how many rounds he said seven plus one. NyS is determined to make good people into criminals as even law enforcement doesn’t know exactly. They turn good people into criminals via laws no one can figure out except when you break them and lose your carry permit. I carry six in all my guns as it’s nuts
Then I ask is any semi auto 223 an assault weapon that must be registered. I get no, yes, maybe.

Last edited by Dano4734; January 5, 2019 at 09:39 PM.
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Old January 5, 2019, 09:39 PM   #2
MoMan
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...OR you can do as I did, and leave that Godforsaken state.
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Old January 5, 2019, 09:39 PM   #3
Dano4734
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Exactly
Then I said is a semi automatic 22 caliber or 222 an assault weapon that has to be registered. No no i don’t know. So how does one obey laws like this someone please explain

Last edited by Dano4734; January 5, 2019 at 09:45 PM.
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Old January 6, 2019, 01:34 AM   #4
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Quote:
So how does one obey laws like this someone please explain
One does the best one can. Ask various LEOs for reference on what they think. Ask a lawyer for paid professional advice. Cops have no legal obligation to give you accurate legal advice, so if they are well intentioned but wrong, there's nothing you can do about it. A lawyer you pay is in a different position.
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Old January 6, 2019, 01:49 AM   #5
perpster
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Magazine capacity of 10 rounds maximum.

Can load 10 in magazine. Can have 1 in chamber.

10+1 is SAFE legal.
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Old January 6, 2019, 02:23 AM   #6
Aguila Blanca
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The original SAFE Act specified a capacity not to exceed seven rounds. IIRC, a court ruled that was uneforceable and it was revised to ten rounds. However, NY State says you may only load seven rounds except at the range or in your home.

https://safeact.ny.gov/

Quote:
The SAFE Act was recently amended. The amendments include the following changes to the law:
  • Suspending the requirement that only magazines that can contain 7 rounds or less can be purchased. Going forward, magazines can be purchased that can contain up to 10 rounds. Magazines may only contain up to 7 rounds regardless of their capacity, unless you are at an incorporated firing range or competition, in which case you may load your magazine to its full capacity.
  • Clarifying that active law enforcement continues to be exempt from the prohibitions on the possession of high capacity magazines, assault weapons, and magazines containing more than 7 rounds, as well as the law prohibiting weapons on school grounds.
  • Ensuring that local safe storage laws are not preempted by the SAFE Act.
Note that Wikipedia disagrees:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NY_SAFE_Act

Quote:
The Act included a high-capacity magazine provision, provided that beginning on April 15, 2013, only magazines with a capacity of seven rounds could legally be sold in New York.[11] The Act allowed ten-round magazines purchased before that date, but made it illegal to load more than seven rounds of ammunition into a ten-round magazine, except "at an incorporated firing range or competition recognized by the National Rifle Association or International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association."[11] Historic or antique guns (defined as those manufactured more than fifty years ago) were exempt from this requirement.[11] The magazine provisions were struck down by Judge Skretny in 2013,[13] and this ruling was upheld by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit in 2015, making it so "gun owners can legally load 10 rounds in a 10-round magazine."[10] Neither the Act nor the subsequent court cases affected New York's pre-existing ten-round magazine limit.[11] The Act does not place a limit on the number of magazines that individuals could purchase at any one time.
I am not a lawyer and I'm not from NY State, so I don't know which is correct.
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Old January 6, 2019, 02:35 AM   #7
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"The magazine provisions were struck down by Judge Skretny in 2013,[13] and this ruling was upheld by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit in 2015, making it so "gun owners can legally load 10 rounds in a 10-round magazine."[10] Neither the Act nor the subsequent court cases affected New York's pre-existing ten-round magazine limit.[11] The Act does not place a limit on the number of magazines that individuals could purchase at any one time."

Correct, AFAIK, not limited to range or competition.
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Old January 6, 2019, 08:52 AM   #8
David R
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There is a phone number you can call. I *think* Its 1-800 safe act.

I had to call when I got my M1A to see if it was legal. They said they did not like the threaded barrel. I had to grind off the threads and weld the front sight/gas cylinder on in 4 equadistant places around the circumrence. It can also be pinned.

If you search, all the answers are there.

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Old January 6, 2019, 10:08 AM   #9
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Ask a lawyer for paid professional advice.
That's the way it is, unfortunately, but it shouldn't be. Laws should be written so they are very clear, and the average person with at least a high school education can understand them and follow them. But law makers are lawyers, and I guess they look out for fellow lawyers by giving them employment?
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Old January 6, 2019, 10:52 AM   #10
JERRYS.
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read the elements of the "crime" for which you would be charged. that will spell out how many rounds in what manner....
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Old January 6, 2019, 11:04 AM   #11
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So does that mean my Henry Goldenboy .22 and Marlin Model 60 that hold 14 rounds in a tubular magazine are illegal if i load them up when i take them out hunting? Both guns are sold here at various stores in NY.
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Old January 6, 2019, 11:35 AM   #12
Dano4734
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I bet no one can answer that one. By the way the 7 round magazine rule is still on the books and the state police said they enforce it. Local da said he will throw out every case. See what i mean. Local police and sheriff allow ten rounds so it will depend on where you go
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Old January 6, 2019, 12:03 PM   #13
Dano4734
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Moral of the story when will our lawmakers sit down with sportsman and law enforcement and revise / review laws and make laws that don’t turn good people into criminals. We have some of the finest law enforcement in the nation but they are not consulted as they pass knee jerk laws that make no one safer
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Old January 6, 2019, 12:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP
Cops have no legal obligation to give you accurate legal advice...
This may point out my naivete, but to my surprise I learned this to be true when I called the MD State police to ask whether the 30 round mags of my Ruger AR-556 could be taken to a friends house in So MD to shoot on his property (he is rural). I live in PA. Knowing that other have gotten multiple different answers when calling the police, I called several times talking to different cops to try and get a correct answer. Not only did I get slightly different answers, but one state cop told me "...the local cops don't always know the law so if stopped, unless asked to, do not inform him you have weapons in your car." Unless asked, I would not give that information out anyway, but I happen to know that PA shares my license info with MD, as well as NJ and NY, not known to be gun friendly states, and that when a MD/NY/NJ cop runs my plate, he/she will know I have a CC permit. It hasn't happened yet but I'm thinking at some point they will indeed ask if I have weapons in the car. I still don't know for sure what would happen if they find a 30 round mag in my car. I understand 1986 FOPA allows me to drive THROUGH MD with my guns locked, unloaded and my ammo in a separate part of the vehicle. In this case I am not driving through... I'm driving IN their state.
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Old January 6, 2019, 01:38 PM   #15
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You also need to be aware that knowing and following the law MAY NOT keep you out of trouble. If you are within the law, it should save you from being convicted, but it won't save you from being detained, arrested, booked, and spending time in jail until you can arrange bail, IF the police think you are breaking the law.

First off, even the best informed officers should not be expected to be aware of every court case that modifies a law. They might be aware, but its not something you should expect.

Where I used to work there was a "Required Reading" book. Whenever there was a change to procedures, the entire crew was required to read them, and sign that that had read them. Most of the stuff had little or nothing to do with MY job, but all of it did relate to someone's job. We used to joke, about how the book was "required reading", but NOT "required remembering"....

Second point, while you may know the law better than the cop, he's NOT going to take your word for it. And there are some who operate on the principle that it doesn't matter. As an illustration, I offer the experience of a friend...

A friend of mine has a (registered) antique motorcycle. 1940 Indian, a sweet bike, fully restored. Our state has a helmet law. If you ride a motorcycle, you must wear a helmet. UNLESS it is a registered antique motorcycle, then the a helmet is NOT required by the law. Most street cops don't know this. They know, motorcycle + no helmet = ticket.

My friend carries a copy of the law with him when he rides his Indian.
When he gets stopped, he explains, and shows the officer the law. He says this gets him out of about HALF of the tickets. About half the time, the officer, shown a valid copy of the relevant law, pointing out that no helmet is legal for that bike, does not write a "no helmet" ticket.

The OTHER half the time, the cop writes the ticket, anyway. Despite being shown the law, they still write the ticket, saying "if you are right, the judge will throw it out. Have a nice day!"

SO, be mentally (and physically) prepared in case a cop THINKS you are violating the law, you will be processed in the system, with all that entails, until either the prosecutor refuses to try the case, or does take it to trial and the judge throws it out, or the jury rules in your favor.

And, don't expect an apology from the police, they did "nothing" wrong. You might even have to go to court (again) to recover your property, or restitution for costs, damages, etc. It may be "wrongful imprisonment" to you or I, but isn't, in the legal system, until the moment a judge rules that it was.

Good Luck.
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Old January 6, 2019, 01:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
...NY State says you may only load seven rounds except at the range or in your home.
I don't see an exception for in the home in any of the cited material.
Quote:
Magazines may only contain up to 7 rounds regardless of their capacity, unless you are at an incorporated firing range or competition, in which case you may load your magazine to its full capacity.
It looks like the most restrictive possible read of all this would only allow 7+1 in the home.

If Wikipedia is right, then that would change to 10+1.
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Old January 6, 2019, 02:58 PM   #17
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSA
I don't see an exception for in the home in any of the cited material.
You are correct. My error, for which I abjectly apologize.
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Old January 6, 2019, 03:47 PM   #18
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Laws should be written so they are very clear, and the average person with at least a high school education can understand them and follow them.
Let me give you an amen and an AMEN.

I've always kind of considered it a social contract that by remaining in this country I'd try to be a "good citizen" and follow the rules (that's my part of the contract), the other part of the contract is the rules have to be understandable. Guess who I think is falling down on their responsibilities.
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