Need a Quickload sanity check on what I think is an overload

totaldla · January 20, 2012, 07:20 PM

I was perusing some old 30-30 load data and I ran across a load that I suspect is too close or slightly over the 42K psi for a 30-30 winchester. So if somebody would run this through Quickload, I would appreciate it.

Powder is H335
Primer is WLR
Case is Remington Brass
Bullet is Speer 130gr Flat Point #2007

Powder charge is 39gr. COL = 2.550
20" barrel.

mehavey · January 20, 2012, 08:19 PM

Just a tiny bit over pressure....

Where did the load come from?

totaldla · January 21, 2012, 12:31 AM

Well I won't mention the author except to say that he is an old-timer who had quite a following a long while ago. Thank you for the sanity check.

WIL TERRY · January 21, 2012, 01:57 PM

DO you believe " quickload " ?
BEWARE....
think...

mehavey · January 21, 2012, 02:08 PM

I do
I do
Except when I don't...
And I know "pretty much" when to question it. **
(A chronograph is essential)

But when it tells me 60ksi in a bottleneck rifle case, though, that's mostly outside my doubt range.

**(My wife quotes me this mantra as well -- and claims not to need the chronograph)

Brian Pfleuger · January 21, 2012, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will Terry

DO you believe " quickload " ?
BEWARE....
think...

QuickLoad has been proven amazing reliable over and over again. Yes, there are situations it is KNOWN to not handle very well but when 40k psi is the max and QuickLoad thinks a load is 150% that number, hell yes I trust it.

William T. Watts · January 21, 2012, 03:59 PM

Hodgdon # 27 Data Manual show 34grs to be a max load 34,700 CUP with a 130gr projectile, Hodgdon # 25 DATA Manual shows a heavier charge that I will not list. You have to remember that older lots of powder varied widely, when you open a new container/different lot of powder you go back to the starting load and work up if signs permit. It sure as heck doesn't mean your Great Uncle's receipe of 50 years ago of a specific powder is the same as the powder today!! I AM REMINDER THAT IN THE EARLY 80'S I RAN ACROSS A SUPER HOT LOT OF H4895, THE UNSUPPORTED PART OF THE CASE WAS BALLONING NEARLY TO THE POINT OF A RUPTURE!! I quickly discontinued shooting that lot of powder and it was burned. The cases were Norma, caliber a 30/06, rifle a Winchester Model 70, the brass was purchased at J.C. Penny of all places. Always use a trusted source for your loading information. William

totaldla · January 21, 2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William T. Watts

H335
Hodgdon # 27 Data Manual show 34grs to be a max load 34,700 CUP with a 130gr projectile

And that's part of what causes the proliferation of possibly wild loads. "34,700 CUP" is a pretty wimpy load given the 40K CPU (42K psi) limit. Since Hodgdon doesn't provide data, folks tend to "guess" how much over max they can go. The end result is potentially dangerous loads.

In a way, by trying to limit their liability by publishing wimpy data, Hodgdon is actually encouraging blind misuse of their product.

I am not condoning hot-rodding at all, but I need to point out that once bad load data starts making it's rounds on the Internet, the only good way to stop it is to provide good data in it's place. Hodgdon, by "lawyering up", is not providing good data.

William T. Watts · January 21, 2012, 09:05 PM

The lever isn't one of the stronger actions available to the hunter nor is the case particularly strong, when you couple those two facts together they make a pretty good case for being cautious. Another factor to throw in the equation is the age of the firearm and how well it has been maintained. Last factor is the fellow asking the question, what does he know, his skill level, how well is he able to interpret and understand the information he has assembled. I know I will be safe, nor will I do anthing to put anyone else at risk. I can state I've never pierced a primer, nor had a case to rupture nor blown a primer, my point is if you stay with current published data from a trusted source you won't have any of the above happen either!! William

mehavey · January 21, 2012, 10:23 PM

CUP ≠ PSI

In fact the common piezoelectric Pressure corresponding to a Copper Units reading
is near invariably higher. Case in point is the 30-30 where there's about a 4,000 unit
difference between the two. So that 34,700CUP reading translates to about 38,500 psi. * **

* SAMMI Std for 30-30 is 38CUP/42ksi (pages 15 & 20) and also here:
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/psicuparticle2.pdf

** Incidentally, Quickload predicts
38,400psi/2,490fps out of a 24" barrel
for that 130SpeerFP over H335/34.0gr
OAL=2.540"

January 20, 2012, 07:20 PM	#1
totaldla Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2009 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 1,295	Need a Quickload sanity check on what I think is an overload I was perusing some old 30-30 load data and I ran across a load that I suspect is too close or slightly over the 42K psi for a 30-30 winchester. So if somebody would run this through Quickload, I would appreciate it. Powder is H335 Primer is WLR Case is Remington Brass Bullet is Speer 130gr Flat Point #2007 Powder charge is 39gr. COL = 2.550 20" barrel. __________________ Lee Auto Bench Prime Castor Oil Case Lube

January 21, 2012, 12:31 AM	#3
totaldla Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2009 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 1,295	Well I won't mention the author except to say that he is an old-timer who had quite a following a long while ago. Thank you for the sanity check. __________________ Lee Auto Bench Prime Castor Oil Case Lube

January 21, 2012, 03:59 PM	#7
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	H335 Hodgdon # 27 Data Manual show 34grs to be a max load 34,700 CUP with a 130gr projectile, Hodgdon # 25 DATA Manual shows a heavier charge that I will not list. You have to remember that older lots of powder varied widely, when you open a new container/different lot of powder you go back to the starting load and work up if signs permit. It sure as heck doesn't mean your Great Uncle's receipe of 50 years ago of a specific powder is the same as the powder today!! I AM REMINDER THAT IN THE EARLY 80'S I RAN ACROSS A SUPER HOT LOT OF H4895, THE UNSUPPORTED PART OF THE CASE WAS BALLONING NEARLY TO THE POINT OF A RUPTURE!! I quickly discontinued shooting that lot of powder and it was burned. The cases were Norma, caliber a 30/06, rifle a Winchester Model 70, the brass was purchased at J.C. Penny of all places. Always use a trusted source for your loading information. William

January 20, 2012, 08:19 PM	#2
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	Just a tiny bit over pressure.... Where did the load come from?

January 21, 2012, 01:57 PM	#4
WIL TERRY Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2000 Location: BLACK HILLS Posts: 1,322	DO you believe " quickload " ? BEWARE.... think...

January 21, 2012, 02:08 PM	#5
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	I do I do Except when I don't... And I know "pretty much" when to question it. (A chronograph is essential) But when it tells me 60ksi in a bottleneck rifle case, though, that's mostly outside my doubt range. (My wife quotes me this mantra as well -- and claims not to need the chronograph)

January 21, 2012, 09:05 PM	#9
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	The lever isn't one of the stronger actions available to the hunter nor is the case particularly strong, when you couple those two facts together they make a pretty good case for being cautious. Another factor to throw in the equation is the age of the firearm and how well it has been maintained. Last factor is the fellow asking the question, what does he know, his skill level, how well is he able to interpret and understand the information he has assembled. I know I will be safe, nor will I do anthing to put anyone else at risk. I can state I've never pierced a primer, nor had a case to rupture nor blown a primer, my point is if you stay with current published data from a trusted source you won't have any of the above happen either!! William

January 21, 2012, 10:23 PM	#10
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	CUP ≠ PSI In fact the common piezoelectric Pressure corresponding to a Copper Units reading is near invariably higher. Case in point is the 30-30 where there's about a 4,000 unit difference between the two. So that 34,700CUP reading translates to about 38,500 psi. * ** * SAMMI Std for 30-30 is 38CUP/42ksi (pages 15 & 20) and also here: http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/psicuparticle2.pdf ** Incidentally, Quickload predicts 38,400psi/2,490fps out of a 24" barrel for that 130SpeerFP over H335/34.0gr OAL=2.540"