carrying a rifle safely

wayneinFL · October 31, 2006, 01:09 PM

I usually hunt with a handgun. I'm going out to hunt a different management area this weekend, and can bring a rilfe. When you are hunting and carrying a rifle what do you consider to be a safe way to carry it?

I've heard some people say the safest way is without a round chambered. Probably true.

I feel safe, however, carrying my winchester 94 with a round chambered. It has a sort of a transfer bar type safety. It seems as safe to carry this as a revolver.

But what about other guns? For example, I have an old Ruger 44 carbine. Would you feel safe carrying that rifle with a round chambered and the safety on?

FrontSight · October 31, 2006, 01:46 PM

As long as you have the safety on and your finger off the trigger & always pointed in a safe direction and break open the action when crossing obstacles then you should be fine carrying loaded in the pipe, as far as I've seen. Just be smart & safe & you should be fine.

Let me streass again: ALWAYS safety on; you never know when a branch could hook the trigger!

dfaugh · October 31, 2006, 03:39 PM

NEVER rely on a mechanical safety. (and always obey the 4 rules)

I usually load the magazine when I get to the woods (in case I "jump" a deer, can work the action quick)...Once I'm in my hunting position I then chamber a round (safety on, until ready to shoot).

castnblast · October 31, 2006, 04:00 PM

I usually hunt w/ a round in the chamber. My new Howa has a 3 position safety which really makes me feel better. BUT...regardless of whether the gun is on safety or not, ALWAYS keep it pointed down and/or away from anything you wouldn't want to shoot. When Climbing, or crossing fences, or anytime I prop/lay the gun down, I unload the round in the chamber. It's just safer that way.

rem33 · October 31, 2006, 04:53 PM

I carry one in the chamber hunting and always treat any gun as if it is loaded.
I have seen the shot that was lost taking the time and noise of chambering a round. A safety can usually be let off easy and quiet. That is the exception but it can make a difference.
When out in the field I try to make a habit of checking twice when I pick a gun up and when I put it down.

Mannlicher · October 31, 2006, 06:30 PM

geez, read the owners manual.

wayneinFL · October 31, 2006, 10:07 PM

Mannlicher:

Sorry if it sounds like a stupid question.

However, I've read something saying never to carry a rifle with a round chambered.

Seems kind of slow, but I imagine there might people who do this and that there might be a reason behind it. I'm curious to see what the reason is, if people still do that, if they used to do it and why.

The owner's manual doesn't tell me that, just how to load, unload, and work the safety.

Clayfish · October 31, 2006, 10:17 PM

If I'm in the woods with a rifle it means I'm hunting. That being said, my rifle is loaded with one in the pipe on safety. I've shot many a deer after walking up on them and if I had to cycle my bolt or lever they would have been long gone. This includes the big eight point I killed last year that now graces my wall. Just make sure that the rifle stays on safety until you're ready to shoot and If you cross fences or climb unload it. Stay safe.

taylorce1 · October 31, 2006, 10:34 PM

This is a very good question. I always hunt with a round in the chamber, and depending if I'm hunting alone or with others what I do.

1. Always treat the gun as if it was loaded.

2. Always point the gun in a safe direction.

3. Always know what is behind your target.

4. Always be aware of your surroundings.

5. Finger never touches the trigger until the shot is made.

Here is where I do things different. If I'm hunting by myself on private land where there is no other hunters then I'll hunt without using my safety on the rifle. I know there is a lot of people who will disagree with me on this point but it is what I do. When hunting on public lands where the hunters are sometimes thicker than the game I'm so cautious that I hardly ever shoot anything. While hunting on public lands this year I had to let a cow elk go because of other hunters too close to her for a safe shot, I didn't even shoulder my rifle, but there was a round in the chamber and it was on safe. I had a cousin go prison for manslaughter because he shot at a rustling bush while elk hunting, and he was never the same after that accident.

Using a Win 94, I would keep a round in the chamber with the hammer released. That way when you have the opportunity for a shot all you have to do is pull the hammer back. This is much more quiet than working the action. What you do will be dictated by the type of hunt you are doing, are you stalking your game or sitting in a blind or stand waiting for your game?

whiskey · October 31, 2006, 10:40 PM

You are safe with the Ruger and the Winchester. Keep the chamber loaded unless you are crossing a fence or creek or climbing in a treestand or the like. There is no good reason a safe gun user should walk around the woods with the chamber empty. Both guns have safties so that you can walk around the woods with the chamber loaded. Like stated, follow the rules of gun safety and you will be fine.

BIGR · October 31, 2006, 10:53 PM

Unless a person is crossing a fence, stream, climbing a tree or on a hillside where they might slip and fall, a gun should be loaded. Carry it safely and if it has a safety make sure it is on. Sometimes you only have a split second to get on your target and fire. If you jump that monster Buck you don't to have to chamber one.

stevelyn · October 31, 2006, 11:07 PM

I nearly always hunt with a hot chamber. I'm either shooting or the rifle is slung with the safety engaged.

FrontSight · October 31, 2006, 11:09 PM

Yeah, seriously, if pheasant hunting, should you not load one in the barrel until a bird pops up? That's ridiculous of course. As is walking in the woods with nothing in the pipe - you're hunting, the whole point is to be ready to fire as soon as possible, safely. Otherwise you might as well have the shells in the box in your zippered pocket...

Venison_Jerkey32 · November 1, 2006, 01:43 PM

When I am deer hunting, I walk to my stand in the dark, so there is no point to have one in the pipe. I usually stand hunt, but if I'm stalking then I will have one in the chamber. Last year I was walking back after a hunt and I slipped and fell, I can't remember if I had one in the pipe or not, but this year I will be more cautious when I'm walking.

azredhawk44 · November 1, 2006, 02:39 PM

If I am hunting with my Win94, I have one in the pipe and the hammer relaxed back down to half-cocked. I can pull the hammer back quietly enough.

My Marlin .22LR gets one in the pipe and the safety on. Safety only goes off when the rifle goes to my shoulder for a shot.

My M1A (the only rifle I have more powerful than 30-30) gets one in the pipe and the safety on while walking/stalking. If I am stationary in a blind or stakeout, the safety comes off. The main reason for this is noise. That safety is pretty loud when it gets worked. For this reason (and weight), I will be getting a different rifle for hunting when the 30-30 isn't quite powerful enough.

I never cross obstacles while carrying a rifle. I always place the rifle across the fence/log/whatever, then cross myself while minding the way the muzzle points.

Art Eatman · November 1, 2006, 04:42 PM

Some safeties are harder to accidentally change than others. The Garand type of the Mini-14 or M1A is one. A tang safety is another; very little to "hook" from Safe to Fire.

Bolt actions vary all over the place, as I'm thinking about brushing against clothing or tree limbs. I prefer to keep the bolt handle fully up until pretty much ready to shoot. Carefully closing the bolt can be quieter than the "click" of many safeties.

Whatever you do, be consistent. Doing one method and then another can lead to fumbling around when you least can waste the time.

Art

trooper3385 · November 1, 2006, 11:40 PM

I use to always hunt with one in the chamber and on safety, but not anymore. Most of the places that I have hunted in the past are places that you have to walk. Walk awhile then sit awhile. Like the others have said, if you walk up on a buck and try to chamber a round, you might as well forget about it. I like to have real light triggers on my rifles and I don't feel confident with just having the safety on. If you have ever worked on triggers and start banging the butt of the gun and slamming the bolt down to make sure the firing pins not going to fall, and it does, it will make you think twice. Of course you keep adjusting it to where it works properly, but you still think about that in the back of your mind. With that being said, now I always hunt with one on the chamber and with the bolt up. Its just as fast and quite to push the bolt down and the gun cannot possibly go off with the bolt up.

FirstFreedom · November 2, 2006, 12:05 AM

I keep one in the chamber with safety on, provided all safety rules are obeyed, *particularly* being careful when climbing over barriers, fences, etc., or climbing up into a tree stand (best way is to use a pullup rope).

But, if I'm climbing a steep hill AND I'm with a friend, then it's wise for both of you to unload before climbing the hill, particularly the bottom guy.

Csspecs · November 2, 2006, 12:12 AM

I hunt with a round chambered and safety on. If you don't feel that you can safely walk around the woods with a round chambered you may want to rethink the whole hunting thing. I found that when you have in your mind to rack the action before firing you become more rushed and may not check your target as well.

If I had to rack the action before every shot I would have to say that I would have shot almost nothing this year. I have not shot anything I did not want to in the last 4-5 years, so I will just keep with what I am doing.

Art Eatman · November 2, 2006, 09:27 AM

Csspecs, I think you're pushing the envelope of what we're talking about. Look at it this way: There's travelling-walking and there's hunting-walking. And what you do when you're by yourself is different from when you're walking with other people, whether hunting or travelling.

Everybody has to work out the system that best suits them and the type of firearm being used. Maximize safety; minimize the time to take a shot.

Art

**Rich Lucibella** · November 2, 2006, 10:13 AM

Somebody here said it's situational. I have to agree.

I've never given this much thought, except in choosing the weapons I'll hunt with. Lever guns, Mauser type actions and safeties, Blaser, Model 97 Shottie, modern Single Action revolvers: these are my most common tools and I invariably carry them with a round chambered, decocked and/or on safety unless a hunting host prefers otherwise. Sometimes I'm the host. If my guest's gun handling concerns me I simply state that we always carry chamber empty. (Though I can't remember two instances where I've had that concern.)

Situational, as I said. Were I carrying certain other rifles, such as a Rem 700, I wouldn't feel nearly as comfortable with a round chambered while moving any real distance.

On the other hand, I regularly have debates with people who don't understand modern lever guns and insist that the chamber be empty. What that requires, with a 7 shot rifle, is that every time you have occasion to load one, you have to run the action 7 times to unload the chamber. That's 7X that the weapon is placed in a fully cocked position; and if you've disabled that uselessly redundant, crossbolt "safety" (better known as a "Get Killed Switch"), the chances of an ND increase significantly. For what? Leaving the weapon in a chamber loaded condition with the hammer at half cock is as safe as carrying a loaded and uncocked Single Action pistol.

Situational, based on equipment, terrain and hunting partners.
Rich

FirstFreedom · November 2, 2006, 10:17 AM

Rich, can you please elaborate on the get killed switch - you referring to Marlins or what? Can you link me to documents of failures or give more info on this? And if the "safety" can get you killed, then why would disabling it make an ND MORE likely, instead of less likely? Thanks.

**Rich Lucibella** · November 2, 2006, 11:29 AM

FF-
Marlin, yes.
It's a humorous reference to a non-standard and completely worthless device...My Opinion only. Of course a cross bolt safety makes an ND less likely, but why stop there? Why not use a trigger lock, too? Keep the gun and ammunition separate until you're ready to shoot. Case the weapon. Hire a "professional" to do your loading and unloading for you.

Answer: because of the "cost" of the extra "safety" measures.

Let's look at it:
If one is used to the Model 94 Action here's the manual of arms:
Load one into the chamber
Lower the hammer to half cock while pointing the weapon in a safe direction

When shooting:
Thumb cock the hammer as the rifle comes to the shoulder
Pull the trigger
Run the lever
Confirm the kill
Lower hammer to half cock while pointing the weapon in a safe direction
Top off as necessary

Somewhere along the line the lawyers decided that this was not safe enough, even though it's every bit as "safe" as a single action revolver and probably "safer" than a double action revolver. So they added a cross bolt safety.

When someone was brought up on the classic design and you put a cross bolt gun in his hands, know what he does? He drops the hammer and the gun doesn't go bang. He then runs the lever and drops the hammer again. Click. He then remembers the "New and Improved" manual of arms. I know, because I witnessed one experienced trainer do just that on a hunt. Of course, if one carries a lever gun as a defensive weapon in his truck (as some of us here do), by the time he's figured out the problem, he's probably leaking heavily.

Cost of no cross bolt safety? Zero, if you follow Rule Two, even after having totally violated 1,3 and 4 due to a sudden stroke.

Like I said, my opinion only. YMMV and you have that right. But now, lemme ask the question in the obverse:
Would you be in favor of a manual cross bolt safety being added to the Ruger Blackhawk pistol?

BTW, on Marlin .22 LG's, it's best to grind the cross bolt flush on the left side but not disable it. That way you can use any pointy object to engage it in order to do dry fire practice without damage to the firing pin.

Rich

CowboyEngr · November 2, 2006, 01:16 PM

"Hunting" is something that means different things to different people and is often very situational. My rules: If you are going from point A to point B - no round in the chamber. If you are anticipating a legal shot at any moment - round in the chamber with the safety on.

Nothing can replace the habitual, continual practice of keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Only allow the muzzle to come into "play" when it is a safe, legal shot.

Of course certain accidents happen, like stumbling, dropping, falling, slipping, tripping, etc. That is why you keep your mechanical safety "on" and your finger out of the trigger guard until you are absolutely prepared to immediately shoot. When I am carrying a rifle or shotgun, I continually check the position of the safety. Don't click it back and forth, just feel it for correct position. That is a benefit of using the same, or same type, of firearm - familararity.

Always error on the side of safety! If you are not comfortable with a certain method of carry - then don't do it. Safety should be the one thing that is continually on your mind. Taking game is always secondary! Always!

I think it is important to hunt with young people until you are certain they are instilled with a safety brain.

One of the first times I "guided" a fellow hunter and being somewhat ignorant of my responsibilities, I was amazed to learn that my man had not loaded his rifle until we had spotted elk and were (I thought) virtually ready to fire. The idea that we had been in "hunting" mode for some time and he had not even loaded his rifle dumbfounded me, but then I realized that he had depended on me to set the standard and I had not met my responsibility. That was my fault! From that point on, if I am the "leader", the "adult", the "responsible party", I take a few moments to establish the rules. If I am the "guest", or the "follower", I ask - but, I never allow myself (or those I am responsible for) to participate in unsafe practices.

Hunting is a safe activity, but only if everyone keeps their head in the game. Never fail to bring up safety before the hunt, or when with people you are unfamiliar with. Never fail to bring up safety if you should witness something unsafe. It is much better to be thought rude or arrogant, than to be party to, or witness to an accidental shooting.

That is a double dose of my $.02.

October 31, 2006, 01:09 PM	#1
wayneinFL Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2004 Posts: 1,944	carrying a rifle safely I usually hunt with a handgun. I'm going out to hunt a different management area this weekend, and can bring a rilfe. When you are hunting and carrying a rifle what do you consider to be a safe way to carry it? I've heard some people say the safest way is without a round chambered. Probably true. I feel safe, however, carrying my winchester 94 with a round chambered. It has a sort of a transfer bar type safety. It seems as safe to carry this as a revolver. But what about other guns? For example, I have an old Ruger 44 carbine. Would you feel safe carrying that rifle with a round chambered and the safety on?

October 31, 2006, 03:39 PM	#3
dfaugh Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,715	NEVER rely on a mechanical safety. (and always obey the 4 rules) I usually load the magazine when I get to the woods (in case I "jump" a deer, can work the action quick)...Once I'm in my hunting position I then chamber a round (safety on, until ready to shoot). __________________ "If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules" "No one has the answer, but one thing is true. You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you. You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide, you've got to go in after it, and never be denied. Time is running out...Let's roll. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love. We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth. Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."

October 31, 2006, 04:00 PM	#4
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	I usually hunt w/ a round in the chamber. My new Howa has a 3 position safety which really makes me feel better. BUT...regardless of whether the gun is on safety or not, ALWAYS keep it pointed down and/or away from anything you wouldn't want to shoot. When Climbing, or crossing fences, or anytime I prop/lay the gun down, I unload the round in the chamber. It's just safer that way. __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

October 31, 2006, 06:30 PM	#6
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,208	geez, read the owners manual. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

October 31, 2006, 10:40 PM	#10
whiskey Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Location: Clarksville, TN Posts: 431	You are safe with the Ruger and the Winchester. Keep the chamber loaded unless you are crossing a fence or creek or climbing in a treestand or the like. There is no good reason a safe gun user should walk around the woods with the chamber empty. Both guns have safties so that you can walk around the woods with the chamber loaded. Like stated, follow the rules of gun safety and you will be fine. __________________ "So he cocked both his pistols, spit in the dirt and walked out in to the street."

October 31, 2006, 01:46 PM	#2
FrontSight Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2005 Posts: 1,712	As long as you have the safety on and your finger off the trigger & always pointed in a safe direction and break open the action when crossing obstacles then you should be fine carrying loaded in the pipe, as far as I've seen. Just be smart & safe & you should be fine. Let me streass again: ALWAYS safety on; you never know when a branch could hook the trigger!

October 31, 2006, 04:53 PM	#5
rem33 Junior member Join Date: March 31, 2006 Posts: 1,528	I carry one in the chamber hunting and always treat any gun as if it is loaded. I have seen the shot that was lost taking the time and noise of chambering a round. A safety can usually be let off easy and quiet. That is the exception but it can make a difference. When out in the field I try to make a habit of checking twice when I pick a gun up and when I put it down.

October 31, 2006, 10:07 PM	#7
wayneinFL Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2004 Posts: 1,944	Mannlicher: Sorry if it sounds like a stupid question. However, I've read something saying never to carry a rifle with a round chambered. Seems kind of slow, but I imagine there might people who do this and that there might be a reason behind it. I'm curious to see what the reason is, if people still do that, if they used to do it and why. The owner's manual doesn't tell me that, just how to load, unload, and work the safety.

October 31, 2006, 10:17 PM	#8
Clayfish Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2005 Location: Valdosta, GA Posts: 953	If I'm in the woods with a rifle it means I'm hunting. That being said, my rifle is loaded with one in the pipe on safety. I've shot many a deer after walking up on them and if I had to cycle my bolt or lever they would have been long gone. This includes the big eight point I killed last year that now graces my wall. Just make sure that the rifle stays on safety until you're ready to shoot and If you cross fences or climb unload it. Stay safe.

October 31, 2006, 10:34 PM	#9
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,242	This is a very good question. I always hunt with a round in the chamber, and depending if I'm hunting alone or with others what I do. 1. Always treat the gun as if it was loaded. 2. Always point the gun in a safe direction. 3. Always know what is behind your target. 4. Always be aware of your surroundings. 5. Finger never touches the trigger until the shot is made. Here is where I do things different. If I'm hunting by myself on private land where there is no other hunters then I'll hunt without using my safety on the rifle. I know there is a lot of people who will disagree with me on this point but it is what I do. When hunting on public lands where the hunters are sometimes thicker than the game I'm so cautious that I hardly ever shoot anything. While hunting on public lands this year I had to let a cow elk go because of other hunters too close to her for a safe shot, I didn't even shoulder my rifle, but there was a round in the chamber and it was on safe. I had a cousin go prison for manslaughter because he shot at a rustling bush while elk hunting, and he was never the same after that accident. Using a Win 94, I would keep a round in the chamber with the hammer released. That way when you have the opportunity for a shot all you have to do is pull the hammer back. This is much more quiet than working the action. What you do will be dictated by the type of hunt you are doing, are you stalking your game or sitting in a blind or stand waiting for your game?

October 31, 2006, 10:53 PM	#11
BIGR Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2000 Location: Mountains Posts: 1,385	Unless a person is crossing a fence, stream, climbing a tree or on a hillside where they might slip and fall, a gun should be loaded. Carry it safely and if it has a safety make sure it is on. Sometimes you only have a split second to get on your target and fire. If you jump that monster Buck you don't to have to chamber one.

October 31, 2006, 11:07 PM	#12
stevelyn Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Fairbanksan in exile to Aleutian Hell Posts: 2,655	I nearly always hunt with a hot chamber. I'm either shooting or the rifle is slung with the safety engaged. __________________ Stop Allowing Our Schools To Be Soft Targets! http://fastersaveslives.org/ East Moose. Wear Wolf.

October 31, 2006, 11:09 PM	#13
FrontSight Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2005 Posts: 1,712	Yeah, seriously, if pheasant hunting, should you not load one in the barrel until a bird pops up? That's ridiculous of course. As is walking in the woods with nothing in the pipe - you're hunting, the whole point is to be ready to fire as soon as possible, safely. Otherwise you might as well have the shells in the box in your zippered pocket...

November 1, 2006, 01:43 PM	#14
Venison_Jerkey32 Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2006 Location: Country of Origin: Texas Posts: 192	When I am deer hunting, I walk to my stand in the dark, so there is no point to have one in the pipe. I usually stand hunt, but if I'm stalking then I will have one in the chamber. Last year I was walking back after a hunt and I slipped and fell, I can't remember if I had one in the pipe or not, but this year I will be more cautious when I'm walking. __________________ Happiness is an empty mag and a pile of hot brass... I may be young, but it is the people of my generation that will decide the future of America.

November 1, 2006, 02:39 PM	#15
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	Depends on the rifle... If I am hunting with my Win94, I have one in the pipe and the hammer relaxed back down to half-cocked. I can pull the hammer back quietly enough. My Marlin .22LR gets one in the pipe and the safety on. Safety only goes off when the rifle goes to my shoulder for a shot. My M1A (the only rifle I have more powerful than 30-30) gets one in the pipe and the safety on while walking/stalking. If I am stationary in a blind or stakeout, the safety comes off. The main reason for this is noise. That safety is pretty loud when it gets worked. For this reason (and weight), I will be getting a different rifle for hunting when the 30-30 isn't quite powerful enough. I never cross obstacles while carrying a rifle. I always place the rifle across the fence/log/whatever, then cross myself while minding the way the muzzle points.

November 1, 2006, 04:42 PM	#16
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Some safeties are harder to accidentally change than others. The Garand type of the Mini-14 or M1A is one. A tang safety is another; very little to "hook" from Safe to Fire. Bolt actions vary all over the place, as I'm thinking about brushing against clothing or tree limbs. I prefer to keep the bolt handle fully up until pretty much ready to shoot. Carefully closing the bolt can be quieter than the "click" of many safeties. Whatever you do, be consistent. Doing one method and then another can lead to fumbling around when you least can waste the time. Art

November 1, 2006, 11:40 PM	#17
trooper3385 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: South Texas Posts: 814	I use to always hunt with one in the chamber and on safety, but not anymore. Most of the places that I have hunted in the past are places that you have to walk. Walk awhile then sit awhile. Like the others have said, if you walk up on a buck and try to chamber a round, you might as well forget about it. I like to have real light triggers on my rifles and I don't feel confident with just having the safety on. If you have ever worked on triggers and start banging the butt of the gun and slamming the bolt down to make sure the firing pins not going to fall, and it does, it will make you think twice. Of course you keep adjusting it to where it works properly, but you still think about that in the back of your mind. With that being said, now I always hunt with one on the chamber and with the bolt up. Its just as fast and quite to push the bolt down and the gun cannot possibly go off with the bolt up.

November 2, 2006, 12:05 AM	#18
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	I keep one in the chamber with safety on, provided all safety rules are obeyed, particularly being careful when climbing over barriers, fences, etc., or climbing up into a tree stand (best way is to use a pullup rope). But, if I'm climbing a steep hill AND I'm with a friend, then it's wise for both of you to unload before climbing the hill, particularly the bottom guy.

November 2, 2006, 12:12 AM	#19
Csspecs Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Posts: 1,111	I hunt with a round chambered and safety on. If you don't feel that you can safely walk around the woods with a round chambered you may want to rethink the whole hunting thing. I found that when you have in your mind to rack the action before firing you become more rushed and may not check your target as well. If I had to rack the action before every shot I would have to say that I would have shot almost nothing this year. I have not shot anything I did not want to in the last 4-5 years, so I will just keep with what I am doing.

November 2, 2006, 09:27 AM	#20
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Csspecs, I think you're pushing the envelope of what we're talking about. Look at it this way: There's travelling-walking and there's hunting-walking. And what you do when you're by yourself is different from when you're walking with other people, whether hunting or travelling. Everybody has to work out the system that best suits them and the type of firearm being used. Maximize safety; minimize the time to take a shot. Art

November 2, 2006, 10:13 AM	#21
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Somebody here said it's situational. I have to agree. I've never given this much thought, except in choosing the weapons I'll hunt with. Lever guns, Mauser type actions and safeties, Blaser, Model 97 Shottie, modern Single Action revolvers: these are my most common tools and I invariably carry them with a round chambered, decocked and/or on safety unless a hunting host prefers otherwise. Sometimes I'm the host. If my guest's gun handling concerns me I simply state that we always carry chamber empty. (Though I can't remember two instances where I've had that concern.) Situational, as I said. Were I carrying certain other rifles, such as a Rem 700, I wouldn't feel nearly as comfortable with a round chambered while moving any real distance. On the other hand, I regularly have debates with people who don't understand modern lever guns and insist that the chamber be empty. What that requires, with a 7 shot rifle, is that every time you have occasion to load one, you have to run the action 7 times to unload the chamber. That's 7X that the weapon is placed in a fully cocked position; and if you've disabled that uselessly redundant, crossbolt "safety" (better known as a "Get Killed Switch"), the chances of an ND increase significantly. For what? Leaving the weapon in a chamber loaded condition with the hammer at half cock is as safe as carrying a loaded and uncocked Single Action pistol. Situational, based on equipment, terrain and hunting partners. Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

November 2, 2006, 10:17 AM	#22
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	Rich, can you please elaborate on the get killed switch - you referring to Marlins or what? Can you link me to documents of failures or give more info on this? And if the "safety" can get you killed, then why would disabling it make an ND MORE likely, instead of less likely? Thanks.

November 2, 2006, 11:29 AM	#23
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	FF- Marlin, yes. It's a humorous reference to a non-standard and completely worthless device...My Opinion only. Of course a cross bolt safety makes an ND less likely, but why stop there? Why not use a trigger lock, too? Keep the gun and ammunition separate until you're ready to shoot. Case the weapon. Hire a "professional" to do your loading and unloading for you. Answer: because of the "cost" of the extra "safety" measures. Let's look at it: If one is used to the Model 94 Action here's the manual of arms: Load one into the chamber Lower the hammer to half cock while pointing the weapon in a safe direction When shooting: Thumb cock the hammer as the rifle comes to the shoulder Pull the trigger Run the lever Confirm the kill Lower hammer to half cock while pointing the weapon in a safe direction Top off as necessary Somewhere along the line the lawyers decided that this was not safe enough, even though it's every bit as "safe" as a single action revolver and probably "safer" than a double action revolver. So they added a cross bolt safety. When someone was brought up on the classic design and you put a cross bolt gun in his hands, know what he does? He drops the hammer and the gun doesn't go bang. He then runs the lever and drops the hammer again. Click. He then remembers the "New and Improved" manual of arms. I know, because I witnessed one experienced trainer do just that on a hunt. Of course, if one carries a lever gun as a defensive weapon in his truck (as some of us here do), by the time he's figured out the problem, he's probably leaking heavily. Cost of no cross bolt safety? Zero, if you follow Rule Two, even after having totally violated 1,3 and 4 due to a sudden stroke. Like I said, my opinion only. YMMV and you have that right. But now, lemme ask the question in the obverse: Would you be in favor of a manual cross bolt safety being added to the Ruger Blackhawk pistol? BTW, on Marlin .22 LG's, it's best to grind the cross bolt flush on the left side but not disable it. That way you can use any pointy object to engage it in order to do dry fire practice without damage to the firing pin. Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

November 2, 2006, 01:16 PM	#24
CowboyEngr Junior Member Join Date: March 23, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 10	"Hunting" is something that means different things to different people and is often very situational. My rules: If you are going from point A to point B - no round in the chamber. If you are anticipating a legal shot at any moment - round in the chamber with the safety on. Nothing can replace the habitual, continual practice of keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Only allow the muzzle to come into "play" when it is a safe, legal shot. Of course certain accidents happen, like stumbling, dropping, falling, slipping, tripping, etc. That is why you keep your mechanical safety "on" and your finger out of the trigger guard until you are absolutely prepared to immediately shoot. When I am carrying a rifle or shotgun, I continually check the position of the safety. Don't click it back and forth, just feel it for correct position. That is a benefit of using the same, or same type, of firearm - familararity. Always error on the side of safety! If you are not comfortable with a certain method of carry - then don't do it. Safety should be the one thing that is continually on your mind. Taking game is always secondary! Always! I think it is important to hunt with young people until you are certain they are instilled with a safety brain. One of the first times I "guided" a fellow hunter and being somewhat ignorant of my responsibilities, I was amazed to learn that my man had not loaded his rifle until we had spotted elk and were (I thought) virtually ready to fire. The idea that we had been in "hunting" mode for some time and he had not even loaded his rifle dumbfounded me, but then I realized that he had depended on me to set the standard and I had not met my responsibility. That was my fault! From that point on, if I am the "leader", the "adult", the "responsible party", I take a few moments to establish the rules. If I am the "guest", or the "follower", I ask - but, I never allow myself (or those I am responsible for) to participate in unsafe practices. Hunting is a safe activity, but only if everyone keeps their head in the game. Never fail to bring up safety before the hunt, or when with people you are unfamiliar with. Never fail to bring up safety if you should witness something unsafe. It is much better to be thought rude or arrogant, than to be party to, or witness to an accidental shooting. That is a double dose of my $.02.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search