.223 primer troubles

mac266 · January 23, 2010, 06:39 PM

I'm having a slight issue, and I'm not new to reloading. I am, however, new to this problem!

I'm reloading .223 to have a practice AR-15 round (cheaper than duty ammo). When trying to load Federal brass, I can't get either of two brands of primer to seat (CCI and Federal).

Yeah, Federal primers won't seat in Federal cases. Whoda thunk?

I verified I'm using the right size primers, and both brands of primers seat just fine in my Winchester and PMC brass.

So what gives?

I don't mean they're a little tight, either. I mean they won't go in AT ALL! What do I do about this? I have a ton of Federal brass and it gives me nightmares to think about throwing it away.

**Unclenick** · January 23, 2010, 06:43 PM

Is this Federal brass from their M193 military loads? If so, they will have had crimped primers and you will need to either cut the crimps away with a primer pocket reamer or to swage them aside with a primer pocket swaging tool. If you have many to do, the Dillon 600 is by far the fastest tool to own and is worth it for quantities of any serious kind. It will force any primer pocket to be large enough in short order.

mac266 · January 23, 2010, 06:51 PM

This is not military brass. I have a swaging tool for military brass, and easily recognize the primer crimp.

Good question, I should have clarified that in my first post. But, not it, try again.

**Unclenick** · January 23, 2010, 06:55 PM

Have you tried running them through the swaging tool? I've seen a couple instances in which Federal brass, because it is softer than most, will deform at the head easily and give either a loose or a squeezed-tight primer pocket, depending on the bolt face shape, just because they were loaded a little warmer than was best for them.

Also note that the softer rims bend easily in a semi-auto and that can force them to be off-square in a shell holder, making priming problematic.

mac266 · January 23, 2010, 07:01 PM

Hmmm...no, I haven't tried to run them through the swager (since they weren't crimped), but that might loosen them up a mite.

On the other hand, these are once-fired from factory loads. I'd hope the folks at Federal wouldn't make such a hot load as to deform their own brass!

hodaka · January 23, 2010, 07:06 PM

Federal is the only brand of brass that I don't pick up at the range.

sway · January 23, 2010, 07:52 PM

yea what hodaka said. when i started reloading .223 i had different brands of brass i used and the only one that gave me trouble were the federals, i could never get the primers to fit correctly. i avoid picking up federal brass for reloads.

mrawesome22 · January 23, 2010, 10:11 PM

Another non-federal brass man here. Every time I've dealt with it, it has given me problems. I won't even consider using it.

Red_Eagle · January 23, 2010, 10:28 PM

Have you tried uniforming the primer pockets? I use the tools Lyman makes, and it's eliminated alot of my problems in this area.

steven-223 · January 25, 2010, 09:40 PM

you can use a deburring tool to cut the crimp out

Hammonje · January 26, 2010, 02:05 AM

Never had an issue with FC brass. I clean the pocket, trim edge with RCBS deburring tool, and seat CCI 41 primer.

thallub · January 26, 2010, 08:44 AM

What the Hodaka, Mrawesome22 and Sway said. I would use Federal brass only if it is the only thing available. Federal brass takes a lot more work. You have to re-work the primer pocket using a primer pocket uniforming tool and/or a deburring tool.

**Unclenick** · January 26, 2010, 09:32 AM

As Mac said, he has a swaging tool. That should do it (though the prettiest and easiest to seat into primer pocket profiles I've seen are cut by Wilson's tool for their case trimmer; it's just more time consuming). I use my Dillon 600 on a lot of brass as a matter of routine, just to keep it uniform. Swaging does upset the brass around the perimeter of the primer pocket a little, and that can flatten part way back inward on firing, so it sometimes takes a second swaging after the first firing.

Opinons on Federal brass are all over the map. Like the fellows above, Dan Newberry says he considers it unsuitable for reloading. There have, indeed, been reports of factory loads that deformed the brass (usually, loosened the primer pockets). AR extractors bend rims even on hard Military brass in some loads, so bending the Federal is no challenge.

On the other hand, you run into match shooters who've had Federal brass serve them well, particularly in .308. They claim the softer brass doesn't work harden to the point of cracking as easily as some other brands. They are not loading to maximum pressures, either, and that's likely the main trick with it. I've never had trouble with low pressure Federal pistol brass, either. Federal .45 ACP holds up as well as any other for target loads and has required no special treatment.

sourdough44 · January 26, 2010, 09:34 AM

Even if you don't 'see' a crimp there I'd still proceed as if there is one. After that the primer should seat no problem.

MR 8x57js · February 16, 2010, 09:10 PM

mac266
What is the headstamp on the brass your having problums with?

January 23, 2010, 06:39 PM	#1
mac266 Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 30	.223 primer troubles I'm having a slight issue, and I'm not new to reloading. I am, however, new to this problem! I'm reloading .223 to have a practice AR-15 round (cheaper than duty ammo). When trying to load Federal brass, I can't get either of two brands of primer to seat (CCI and Federal). Yeah, Federal primers won't seat in Federal cases. Whoda thunk? I verified I'm using the right size primers, and both brands of primers seat just fine in my Winchester and PMC brass. So what gives? I don't mean they're a little tight, either. I mean they won't go in AT ALL! What do I do about this? I have a ton of Federal brass and it gives me nightmares to think about throwing it away.

January 23, 2010, 06:43 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Is this Federal brass from their M193 military loads? If so, they will have had crimped primers and you will need to either cut the crimps away with a primer pocket reamer or to swage them aside with a primer pocket swaging tool. If you have many to do, the Dillon 600 is by far the fastest tool to own and is worth it for quantities of any serious kind. It will force any primer pocket to be large enough in short order. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 23, 2010, 06:55 PM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Have you tried running them through the swaging tool? I've seen a couple instances in which Federal brass, because it is softer than most, will deform at the head easily and give either a loose or a squeezed-tight primer pocket, depending on the bolt face shape, just because they were loaded a little warmer than was best for them. Also note that the softer rims bend easily in a semi-auto and that can force them to be off-square in a shell holder, making priming problematic. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 23, 2010, 10:28 PM	#9
Red_Eagle Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2007 Location: Western NY Posts: 598	Have you tried uniforming the primer pockets? I use the tools Lyman makes, and it's eliminated alot of my problems in this area. __________________ My Calibers: 22 Hornet, 223 Rem, 22-250, 243 Win, 270 Win, 280 Remington Ackley Improved, 30-30, 308 Win, 30-06, 300 Winchester magnum, 7.62x39mm, 380 Auto, 9mm Parabellum, 38 Special, 357 magnum, 40 S&W, 10mm Auto, 45 GAP, 45 Auto, 12 & 20 Guage

January 26, 2010, 09:32 AM	#13
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	As Mac said, he has a swaging tool. That should do it (though the prettiest and easiest to seat into primer pocket profiles I've seen are cut by Wilson's tool for their case trimmer; it's just more time consuming). I use my Dillon 600 on a lot of brass as a matter of routine, just to keep it uniform. Swaging does upset the brass around the perimeter of the primer pocket a little, and that can flatten part way back inward on firing, so it sometimes takes a second swaging after the first firing. Opinons on Federal brass are all over the map. Like the fellows above, Dan Newberry says he considers it unsuitable for reloading. There have, indeed, been reports of factory loads that deformed the brass (usually, loosened the primer pockets). AR extractors bend rims even on hard Military brass in some loads, so bending the Federal is no challenge. On the other hand, you run into match shooters who've had Federal brass serve them well, particularly in .308. They claim the softer brass doesn't work harden to the point of cracking as easily as some other brands. They are not loading to maximum pressures, either, and that's likely the main trick with it. I've never had trouble with low pressure Federal pistol brass, either. Federal .45 ACP holds up as well as any other for target loads and has required no special treatment. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 23, 2010, 06:51 PM	#3
mac266 Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 30	This is not military brass. I have a swaging tool for military brass, and easily recognize the primer crimp. Good question, I should have clarified that in my first post. But, not it, try again.

January 23, 2010, 07:01 PM	#5
mac266 Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 30	Hmmm...no, I haven't tried to run them through the swager (since they weren't crimped), but that might loosen them up a mite. On the other hand, these are once-fired from factory loads. I'd hope the folks at Federal wouldn't make such a hot load as to deform their own brass!

January 23, 2010, 07:06 PM	#6
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	Federal is the only brand of brass that I don't pick up at the range.

January 23, 2010, 07:52 PM	#7
sway Member Join Date: January 3, 2010 Posts: 32	yea what hodaka said. when i started reloading .223 i had different brands of brass i used and the only one that gave me trouble were the federals, i could never get the primers to fit correctly. i avoid picking up federal brass for reloads.

January 23, 2010, 10:11 PM	#8
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Another non-federal brass man here. Every time I've dealt with it, it has given me problems. I won't even consider using it.

January 25, 2010, 09:40 PM	#10
steven-223 Member Join Date: February 13, 2009 Posts: 25	you can use a deburring tool to cut the crimp out

January 26, 2010, 02:05 AM	#11
Hammonje Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2010 Location: Lilburn, GA Posts: 117	Never had an issue with FC brass. I clean the pocket, trim edge with RCBS deburring tool, and seat CCI 41 primer.

January 26, 2010, 08:44 AM	#12
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	What the Hodaka, Mrawesome22 and Sway said. I would use Federal brass only if it is the only thing available. Federal brass takes a lot more work. You have to re-work the primer pocket using a primer pocket uniforming tool and/or a deburring tool.

January 26, 2010, 09:34 AM	#14
sourdough44 Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: WI Posts: 621	Even if you don't 'see' a crimp there I'd still proceed as if there is one. After that the primer should seat no problem.

February 16, 2010, 09:10 PM	#15
MR 8x57js Member Join Date: February 7, 2010 Posts: 36	mac266 What is the headstamp on the brass your having problums with?