First Squib

richfr · August 6, 2011, 04:28 PM

I had my first squib at the range today

(9mm reload)
Am gutted as I thought I had done everything right (and looked a complete idiot) I know mistakes happen but I want to understand what went wrong and learn from it.
The primer went off with a puff of smoke. I immediately racked the slide (new round fed in ok) removed the magazine then ejected the next live round making the gun safe. Field striped the gun and a bullet was in the rifling.
The ejected case was very black but no damage to it.
Now have I just not had any powder in there (unlikely the way I reload) or could it have been a loose crimp on a case and bullet I had previously pulled and reused?
Would a primer on its own make so much black deposits?

I load on a turret press but single stage. My brass is same head stamp. I clean every primer pocket, check case length and debur every case.
I prime the cases then visually check for depth.
I use a powder measure to load the powder and place all 50 rounds in a reloading tray to check uniform levels of powder (also check every 10th case on the scales)
I lightly crimp then use the lee FCD.
I then use vernier gauges to check every OAL.
Only difference I can think was I had pulled a few rounds apart and reused them again.

What do you think?

243winxb · August 6, 2011, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Would a primer on its own make so much black deposits?

Yes, you forgot the powder. Lets hope you didn't double charge a case. Lead or Jacketed bullet? What powder? Bullet weight?

Edward429451 · August 6, 2011, 10:57 PM

I think you can't pull a bullet and re-use the brass without re sizing the brass again.

Sport45 · August 7, 2011, 12:04 AM

Sounds like too little or no powder.

But I can attest to the fact that powder can burn and not develop enough pressure to make the bullet leave the case. I've done it with too-light loads of H-110 and not enough primer.

TXGunNut · August 7, 2011, 12:34 AM

How many rounds left? When I loaded on a block and had a squib I automatically suspected I missed a whole row of cases, happened once and it was a royal PITA.

T. O'Heir · August 7, 2011, 12:47 AM

"...use a powder measure..." Kind of depends on which one. It doesn't take much of a wee error for most of 'em to drop less powder.
"...Would a primer on its own..." Yep. Fire is fire.
"...to check uniform levels of powder..." Remember seeing any that weren't right? Doesn't take much to miss one. Pull 'em all.
However, Edward429451 has a valid point. When you pull a bullet, you should re-size again. Highly unlikely to cause a squib though. Squibs are caused by not enough powder or sometimes a clogged flash hole.

farmerboy · August 7, 2011, 01:14 AM

Done same as TXGunNut missed whole role by distraction but the thing is I was loading about 500 pieces and missed 10. Loaded them for shooting and shoot I did was was disgusted with myself for allowing it and learned a lesson to try and stop getting distracted and after returning from break or whatever to know exactly where you are after returning. If you load enough it or something similar can happen. Hopefully I'n the end though lesson learned

richfr · August 7, 2011, 01:51 AM

Loading on a Lee Classic Turret with a pro auto disk measure.
Frontier 9mm 124gr Plated RN on 4.7gr of VV N340
No way to do a double charge with the above as it will not fit in the case. I look in every case on the reloading block so a missed case or over/undercharged case shouldn't happen.
I was at the end of a batch of 100 and every other one was perfect.

The case I reused was not resized due to it having a live primer in it (thinking about it I should have removed the de capping pin and resized)

poline · August 7, 2011, 02:12 AM

I hope that I'm not speaking out of turn, but I have two questions.

#1. What is a vernier gauge?

#2. How do you plan on getting the bullet out of the barrel?

richfr · August 7, 2011, 02:19 AM

Sorry I think you call them callipers.
Bullet is out of the barrel used a brass cleaning rod to push it out.

I have just resized/de capped the cases I used and the one that I had the squib on had no resistance in the die. (I will discard this case)
The primer end and flash hole looks exactly like the rest but inside the case there is a lot of residue especially at the bullet head depth.

243winxb · August 7, 2011, 08:12 AM

No neck tension/bullet pull may keep pressure from increasing on firing. There are 2 VV powders with a faster burning rate that might work better, but produce lower velocity. Or slowly increase the powder charger till you reach a maximum of 5.1gr. -N340.

Quote:

the one that I had the squib on had no resistance in the die. (I will discard this case)

I would run a test with this case. See if it will do it again. Shoot it as the last round of the day.

wingman · August 7, 2011, 10:21 AM

You simply missed a case, I set up a flexible head type led light on my Lee turret and watch each drop during powder charging, if I find myself not concentrating I stop and walk around, drink coffee,etc, reloading is fun to me but after 40+years I've learned it only takes a small interruption to cause a problem.

The good thing is you caught it so many shooters love to run a gun as fast as possible and sure it's enjoyable but be ever alert to when it don't sound or feel correct.

mehavey · August 7, 2011, 11:47 AM

Added suggestion:

I also fill all cases at once (Harrells measure/45ACP/Bulleyse/4.0 this morning). With those relatively small charges I not only look down into the cases as a block unit, but tilt everything to where I'm seeing the edge of the powder line against the back of each case. Any anomalies in powder level from one case to another dramatically show up that way.

farmerboy · August 7, 2011, 01:41 PM

true, but 500 cases on a single stage. wasnt in a hurry so completed it within about 3-4 days. But like I said missed a single row by getting laxed. Only happened once in about 14 years but it can happen

jonboyc · August 7, 2011, 02:19 PM

I almost had a bad day the other day(well it was bad). I had attached my perfect powder measure to my powder through die to make the process easier. After about 10 cases I noticed each case had less and less powder(still can't figure out how the heck that happened). Now what really made the night bad was I unscrewed the power measure thinking it was clogged which dumped about half the powder onto my press. So, with the lid on, I turned the powder measure upside down to keep the powder from coming out. Then like an idiot I picked up the powder measure without the lid and dumped the rest on the desk. Now luckily I keep my desk pristine so I decided to scoop all the powder up and dump it over the edge of the desk into the powder measure. However I forgot to twist the powder measure back closed(which means the powder just went straight through and back out the bottom) and dumped all the powder on the floor. I gave up after that.

oneounceload · August 7, 2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

The case I reused was not resized due to it having a live primer in it (thinking about it I should have removed the de capping pin and resized)

You can always deprime the live primer and then resize and reseat the primer - it isn't that big of a deal

UncleLoodis · August 7, 2011, 06:38 PM

Don't feel bad. I would guess that we've all had nights like that!

BigJimP · August 8, 2011, 12:41 PM

I think its likely you ended up with a case with no powder in it ....not because you reclaimed the case or bullet...

That repetitive process of looking at each and every case ...is a little boring ...and its just the reality of you were looking ..but you many not have "seen" the empty case...

The good thing is you caught it ...no damage to the gun / no injury to you !

Every press - single stage, turret or progressives ...can potentially cause this issue ....there is a human factor involved. All most of us can say ...is just slow it down a little and take a 2nd look ...

Most of your cost is in the bullets / in my 9mm reloads using a FMJ bullet - my rounds in 9mm run about $ 0.11 each and almost 8 cents of that is the bullet ( a little over 2 cents for the primer / about 1 cent for powder..) so as a rule, I will reclaim a bullet ...and powder because its easy to dump out ....but I don't reclaim a primer...

so I'm suggesting that you not reclaim that case and primer as a change to your procedures...

snuffy · August 8, 2011, 01:36 PM

Something not mentioned by others, or by you, was when you ejected that case that squibbed, was there powder spilled everywhere? Was there powder behind that stuck bullet? If not, then there was never any powder in there to start with. If it were there, it had to either burn, which would have made it fire normally, or not burn which would mean it was there but charred or clumped. No powder present means you skipped one. Simple as that! Live and learn.

Colorado Redneck · August 8, 2011, 10:28 PM

I was loading one case at a time, by charging with powder, then seating the bullet. Evidently I got bored and missed charging one round. My daughter in law fired the round, the bullet lodged in the forcing cone and locked up the gun...thankfully!! She was a novice and just tried to fire another round.

I don't have a progressive or turret. Now, I charge 50 cases, then hold the block with all 50 cases under a bright lamp and look into each case to be sure they are charged.

My bet is there was no powder charge, for whatever reason. This is serious enough that every load should be visually checked.

farmerboy · August 8, 2011, 10:56 PM

Yes and I assume that to be it also

U.S. Patriot · August 8, 2011, 11:25 PM

I'm in no way a Pro when it comes to reloading. I just tested my first batch of 9mm loads. I weighed every charge to make sure it was what I wanted. Yes, it takes some time, but I'm very anal. Sounds like the round was undercharged.

Sea Buck · August 9, 2011, 03:01 PM

Years ago I had a similar expirience with a .38 spl 158 gr round. Click,snap,what the hell!!Bullet was lodged between the forcing cone and cylinder.What a PIA.Of course my buddy's were making crude remarks. Took the gun home,S&W,and with a small dowel drove the slug back into the case so I could open the cylinder and remove the case. I put that case on my bench for years as a reminder to check every case ..eyeball it!Recently I was interupted by a call during reloading .45 rims.After the call I reloaded several more when the thought hit me...did I charge that case? Weighed out each and yup,no charge.I've been reloading for 40 years.

richfr · August 10, 2011, 01:39 AM

I didn’t see any un burnt powder but loads of black fouling.
I guess my method of checking every round didn't work. The way I reload I have to move a charged case from the press to the reloading block then back to the press easy to spill the charge when returning to the press.
I have learned my lesson

Thanks everyone.

August 7, 2011, 12:04 AM	#4
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Sounds like too little or no powder. But I can attest to the fact that powder can burn and not develop enough pressure to make the bullet leave the case. I've done it with too-light loads of H-110 and not enough primer. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

August 7, 2011, 12:34 AM	#5
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	How many rounds left? When I loaded on a block and had a squib I automatically suspected I missed a whole row of cases, happened once and it was a royal PITA. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

August 7, 2011, 12:47 AM	#6
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...use a powder measure..." Kind of depends on which one. It doesn't take much of a wee error for most of 'em to drop less powder. "...Would a primer on its own..." Yep. Fire is fire. "...to check uniform levels of powder..." Remember seeing any that weren't right? Doesn't take much to miss one. Pull 'em all. However, Edward429451 has a valid point. When you pull a bullet, you should re-size again. Highly unlikely to cause a squib though. Squibs are caused by not enough powder or sometimes a clogged flash hole. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

August 7, 2011, 02:19 AM	#10
richfr Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: France Posts: 79	Sorry I think you call them callipers. Bullet is out of the barrel used a brass cleaning rod to push it out. I have just resized/de capped the cases I used and the one that I had the squib on had no resistance in the die. (I will discard this case) The primer end and flash hole looks exactly like the rest but inside the case there is a lot of residue especially at the bullet head depth. Last edited by richfr; August 7, 2011 at 02:45 AM.

August 7, 2011, 06:38 PM	#17
UncleLoodis Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2011 Location: Oregon Posts: 160	jonboyc Don't feel bad. I would guess that we've all had nights like that!

August 6, 2011, 04:28 PM	#1
richfr Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: France Posts: 79	First Squib I had my first squib at the range today (9mm reload) Am gutted as I thought I had done everything right (and looked a complete idiot) I know mistakes happen but I want to understand what went wrong and learn from it. The primer went off with a puff of smoke. I immediately racked the slide (new round fed in ok) removed the magazine then ejected the next live round making the gun safe. Field striped the gun and a bullet was in the rifling. The ejected case was very black but no damage to it. Now have I just not had any powder in there (unlikely the way I reload) or could it have been a loose crimp on a case and bullet I had previously pulled and reused? Would a primer on its own make so much black deposits? I load on a turret press but single stage. My brass is same head stamp. I clean every primer pocket, check case length and debur every case. I prime the cases then visually check for depth. I use a powder measure to load the powder and place all 50 rounds in a reloading tray to check uniform levels of powder (also check every 10th case on the scales) I lightly crimp then use the lee FCD. I then use vernier gauges to check every OAL. Only difference I can think was I had pulled a few rounds apart and reused them again. What do you think?

August 6, 2011, 10:57 PM	#3
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I think you can't pull a bullet and re-use the brass without re sizing the brass again.

August 7, 2011, 01:14 AM	#7
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	Done same as TXGunNut missed whole role by distraction but the thing is I was loading about 500 pieces and missed 10. Loaded them for shooting and shoot I did was was disgusted with myself for allowing it and learned a lesson to try and stop getting distracted and after returning from break or whatever to know exactly where you are after returning. If you load enough it or something similar can happen. Hopefully I'n the end though lesson learned

August 7, 2011, 01:51 AM	#8
richfr Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: France Posts: 79	Loading on a Lee Classic Turret with a pro auto disk measure. Frontier 9mm 124gr Plated RN on 4.7gr of VV N340 No way to do a double charge with the above as it will not fit in the case. I look in every case on the reloading block so a missed case or over/undercharged case shouldn't happen. I was at the end of a batch of 100 and every other one was perfect. The case I reused was not resized due to it having a live primer in it (thinking about it I should have removed the de capping pin and resized)

August 7, 2011, 02:12 AM	#9
poline Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2009 Location: Richmond,Va Posts: 292	I hope that I'm not speaking out of turn, but I have two questions. #1. What is a vernier gauge? #2. How do you plan on getting the bullet out of the barrel?

August 7, 2011, 10:21 AM	#12
wingman Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2002 Posts: 2,108	You simply missed a case, I set up a flexible head type led light on my Lee turret and watch each drop during powder charging, if I find myself not concentrating I stop and walk around, drink coffee,etc, reloading is fun to me but after 40+years I've learned it only takes a small interruption to cause a problem. The good thing is you caught it so many shooters love to run a gun as fast as possible and sure it's enjoyable but be ever alert to when it don't sound or feel correct.

August 7, 2011, 11:47 AM	#13
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	Added suggestion: I also fill all cases at once (Harrells measure/45ACP/Bulleyse/4.0 this morning). With those relatively small charges I not only look down into the cases as a block unit, but tilt everything to where I'm seeing the edge of the powder line against the back of each case. Any anomalies in powder level from one case to another dramatically show up that way.

August 7, 2011, 01:41 PM	#14
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	true, but 500 cases on a single stage. wasnt in a hurry so completed it within about 3-4 days. But like I said missed a single row by getting laxed. Only happened once in about 14 years but it can happen

August 7, 2011, 02:19 PM	#15
jonboyc Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: St. Louis Posts: 24	I almost had a bad day the other day(well it was bad). I had attached my perfect powder measure to my powder through die to make the process easier. After about 10 cases I noticed each case had less and less powder(still can't figure out how the heck that happened). Now what really made the night bad was I unscrewed the power measure thinking it was clogged which dumped about half the powder onto my press. So, with the lid on, I turned the powder measure upside down to keep the powder from coming out. Then like an idiot I picked up the powder measure without the lid and dumped the rest on the desk. Now luckily I keep my desk pristine so I decided to scoop all the powder up and dump it over the edge of the desk into the powder measure. However I forgot to twist the powder measure back closed(which means the powder just went straight through and back out the bottom) and dumped all the powder on the floor. I gave up after that.

August 8, 2011, 12:41 PM	#18
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I think its likely you ended up with a case with no powder in it ....not because you reclaimed the case or bullet... That repetitive process of looking at each and every case ...is a little boring ...and its just the reality of you were looking ..but you many not have "seen" the empty case... The good thing is you caught it ...no damage to the gun / no injury to you ! Every press - single stage, turret or progressives ...can potentially cause this issue ....there is a human factor involved. All most of us can say ...is just slow it down a little and take a 2nd look ... Most of your cost is in the bullets / in my 9mm reloads using a FMJ bullet - my rounds in 9mm run about $ 0.11 each and almost 8 cents of that is the bullet ( a little over 2 cents for the primer / about 1 cent for powder..) so as a rule, I will reclaim a bullet ...and powder because its easy to dump out ....but I don't reclaim a primer... so I'm suggesting that you not reclaim that case and primer as a change to your procedures... Last edited by BigJimP; August 8, 2011 at 12:55 PM.

August 8, 2011, 01:36 PM	#19
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Something not mentioned by others, or by you, was when you ejected that case that squibbed, was there powder spilled everywhere? Was there powder behind that stuck bullet? If not, then there was never any powder in there to start with. If it were there, it had to either burn, which would have made it fire normally, or not burn which would mean it was there but charred or clumped. No powder present means you skipped one. Simple as that! Live and learn. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

August 8, 2011, 10:28 PM	#20
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	Squib load of my own I was loading one case at a time, by charging with powder, then seating the bullet. Evidently I got bored and missed charging one round. My daughter in law fired the round, the bullet lodged in the forcing cone and locked up the gun...thankfully!! She was a novice and just tried to fire another round. I don't have a progressive or turret. Now, I charge 50 cases, then hold the block with all 50 cases under a bright lamp and look into each case to be sure they are charged. My bet is there was no powder charge, for whatever reason. This is serious enough that every load should be visually checked.

August 8, 2011, 10:56 PM	#21
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	Yes and I assume that to be it also

August 8, 2011, 11:25 PM	#22
U.S. Patriot Junior Member Join Date: August 8, 2011 Location: Indiana Posts: 13	I'm in no way a Pro when it comes to reloading. I just tested my first batch of 9mm loads. I weighed every charge to make sure it was what I wanted. Yes, it takes some time, but I'm very anal. Sounds like the round was undercharged. __________________ "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

August 9, 2011, 03:01 PM	#23
Sea Buck Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Location: New England,Florida Snow Bird Posts: 312	Years ago I had a similar expirience with a .38 spl 158 gr round. Click,snap,what the hell!!Bullet was lodged between the forcing cone and cylinder.What a PIA.Of course my buddy's were making crude remarks. Took the gun home,S&W,and with a small dowel drove the slug back into the case so I could open the cylinder and remove the case. I put that case on my bench for years as a reminder to check every case ..eyeball it!Recently I was interupted by a call during reloading .45 rims.After the call I reloaded several more when the thought hit me...did I charge that case? Weighed out each and yup,no charge.I've been reloading for 40 years.

August 10, 2011, 01:39 AM	#24
richfr Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: France Posts: 79	I didn’t see any un burnt powder but loads of black fouling. I guess my method of checking every round didn't work. The way I reload I have to move a charged case from the press to the reloading block then back to the press easy to spill the charge when returning to the press. I have learned my lesson Thanks everyone.