Brady Center paving new ground.

JimDandy · March 13, 2013, 08:59 AM

They're suing armslist an internet bulletin board/broker over their role- whatever it may or may not have been- in facilitating a gun transfer to someone who then used it to commit murder. I had never been there before today, but today there are several admonitions to follow the laws, and a disclaimer that Armslist does not get involved in the actual transaction. And it's now the Internet Loophole.

The really terrifying precedent this would set is mind boggling. Any community center anywhere with a bulletin board for lost puppies, garage sales, and so on is now at risk. I can only assume the Brady Center isn't fond of more amendments than the second one.

**Spats McGee** · March 13, 2013, 09:44 AM

I wish I were more surprised.

ScottRiqui · March 13, 2013, 09:46 AM

Isn't the Brady Center pretty much just a handful of folks with something like $53 in the petty cash drawer now? I have a hard time taking them seriously.

Armorer-at-Law · March 13, 2013, 10:56 AM

Preempted by the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act?

**Tom Servo** · March 13, 2013, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Preempted by the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act?

No, because the PLCA only applies to licensed sellers. However, there are several other precedents that would invalidate their claim.

2ndsojourn · March 13, 2013, 12:07 PM

By the same logic, the on-line dating website that that the victim met her killer should also be liable.

ScottRiqui · March 13, 2013, 12:11 PM

Quote:

By the same logic, the on-line dating website that that the victim met her killer should also be liable.

Roll your eyes if you want, but I think Craigslist has actually been sued (although not successfully) using that exact rationale.

It helps to remember that in America, anyone is free to sue just about anyone else, for almost any reason at all, no matter how flimsy. I don't worry about it too much unless it looks like the case is actually going to go to trial.

2ndsojourn · March 13, 2013, 12:14 PM

"Roll your eyes if you want, but I think Craigslist has actually been sued

(although not successfully)"

That's why I rolled my eyes.

Ruthless4christ · March 13, 2013, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Isn't the Brady Center pretty much just a handful of folks with something like $53 in the petty cash drawer now? I have a hard time taking them seriously.

pretty sure they only have like 25 thousand members or something like that.

**Tom Servo** · March 13, 2013, 04:07 PM

Actually, when they count their membership, they're tabulating all contacts with interested parties by any means. That's not an actual count of dues paying members.

Cascade1911 · March 16, 2013, 11:05 AM

Maybe the Brady Campaign will win, most likely they will lose. I doubt they care. Even if they lose they have managed to harass Armslist.

johnwilliamson062 · March 17, 2013, 01:24 AM

I think it came out they only had a few hundred people paying dues and almost everything they had came from something like 5 people and most of it from one.

JimDandy · March 17, 2013, 03:08 AM

They're not afraid to use it. Doesnt matter where it comes from.

**Aguila Blanca** · March 17, 2013, 07:15 AM

How does The Brady Center have any standing to sue in this case?

thallub · March 17, 2013, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Isn't the Brady Center pretty much just a handful of folks with something like $53 in the petty cash drawer now?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The Brady center of 20 years ago were awash in cash. Now they have trouble paying the rent.

overhead · March 17, 2013, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

How does The Brady Center have any standing to sue in this case?

The are involved in the lawsuit that a family of a murder victim is bringing against armslist. I don't know if they are funding the effort or if their lawyers are representing the victims family.

This is a silly lawsuit, but it is a good indication of the "straws" that the Brady group is grasping at right now. They have nothing, and I can't imagine this case will get very far.

**Spats McGee** · March 17, 2013, 08:01 AM

The question of standing is a good one, and the defendant really ought to raise that as a defense. I suspect that Brady is (at least in part) funding the lawsuit (with what I'm not sure, given their purported finances).

Salmoneye · March 17, 2013, 08:04 AM

NPR had Sarah on yesterday morning...

http://www.npr.org/2013/03/16/174481...n-control-push

johnwilliamson062 · March 17, 2013, 03:20 PM

Quote:

...the groundswell of public support...

I guess she is a proponent of the "if you say it enough it becomes true" strategy.

**Aguila Blanca** · March 17, 2013, 04:48 PM

What's taking place is not so much a "groundswell of support" as a very pronounced hardening of positions on both sides of the issue -- in other words, POLARIZATION. People who were either uninterested or on the fence before are getting interested and getting off the fence. Yes, there are some who are clambering for more gun control laws. And then there are all the people who are suddenly buying all the guns and all the ammo because they are waking up to the fact that the police AREN'T able to protect us, and that if they don't buy that gun today they may not be allowed to buy it in two or three or six months from now.

I visited the largest gun store in my state today. They had almost no handgun ammo at all: some in .38 Special, a decent supply in .44 magnum and .45 Colt, some .40 S&W, nothing at all in .45 Auto, 9mm or .38 Super. Very few handguns anywhere in the store -- usually the display cases are stacked four to six deep with every model in every make. NO handgun powder, and exactly three (3) 1-pound bottles of rifle powder (one each of three different powders). NO handgun OR rifle primers. NO handgun bullets in 9mm, .38 Special, .357 magnum, .44 or .45 flavors. They had a lot of bags of 45-grain .22 caliber rifle bullets, and a few bags of 95-grain FMJ bullets for .380 ACP. That was it. And no rimfire ammo at all, of any make, weight, or velocity.

March 13, 2013, 08:59 AM	#1
JimDandy Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2012 Posts: 2,556	Brady Center paving new ground. They're suing armslist an internet bulletin board/broker over their role- whatever it may or may not have been- in facilitating a gun transfer to someone who then used it to commit murder. I had never been there before today, but today there are several admonitions to follow the laws, and a disclaimer that Armslist does not get involved in the actual transaction. And it's now the Internet Loophole. The really terrifying precedent this would set is mind boggling. Any community center anywhere with a bulletin board for lost puppies, garage sales, and so on is now at risk. I can only assume the Brady Center isn't fond of more amendments than the second one.

March 13, 2013, 09:44 AM	#2
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	I wish I were more surprised. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

March 13, 2013, 10:56 AM	#4
Armorer-at-Law Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 2002 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 465	Preempted by the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act? __________________ Send lawyers, guns, and money... Armorer-at-Law.com 07FFL/02SOT

March 13, 2013, 04:07 PM	#10
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	Actually, when they count their membership, they're tabulating all contacts with interested parties by any means. That's not an actual count of dues paying members. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

March 17, 2013, 08:01 AM	#17
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	The question of standing is a good one, and the defendant really ought to raise that as a defense. I suspect that Brady is (at least in part) funding the lawsuit (with what I'm not sure, given their purported finances). __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

March 13, 2013, 09:46 AM	#3
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	Isn't the Brady Center pretty much just a handful of folks with something like $53 in the petty cash drawer now? I have a hard time taking them seriously.

March 13, 2013, 12:07 PM	#6
2ndsojourn Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,416	By the same logic, the on-line dating website that that the victim met her killer should also be liable.

March 13, 2013, 12:14 PM	#8
2ndsojourn Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,416	"Roll your eyes if you want, but I think Craigslist has actually been sued (although not successfully)" That's why I rolled my eyes.

March 16, 2013, 11:05 AM	#11
Cascade1911 Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2011 Location: Dutchess County, NY Posts: 450	Maybe the Brady Campaign will win, most likely they will lose. I doubt they care. Even if they lose they have managed to harass Armslist.

March 17, 2013, 01:24 AM	#12
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I think it came out they only had a few hundred people paying dues and almost everything they had came from something like 5 people and most of it from one.

March 17, 2013, 03:08 AM	#13
JimDandy Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2012 Posts: 2,556	They're not afraid to use it. Doesnt matter where it comes from.

March 17, 2013, 07:15 AM	#14
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	How does The Brady Center have any standing to sue in this case?

March 17, 2013, 08:04 AM	#18
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	NPR had Sarah on yesterday morning... http://www.npr.org/2013/03/16/174481...n-control-push

March 17, 2013, 04:48 PM	#20
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	What's taking place is not so much a "groundswell of support" as a very pronounced hardening of positions on both sides of the issue -- in other words, POLARIZATION. People who were either uninterested or on the fence before are getting interested and getting off the fence. Yes, there are some who are clambering for more gun control laws. And then there are all the people who are suddenly buying all the guns and all the ammo because they are waking up to the fact that the police AREN'T able to protect us, and that if they don't buy that gun today they may not be allowed to buy it in two or three or six months from now. I visited the largest gun store in my state today. They had almost no handgun ammo at all: some in .38 Special, a decent supply in .44 magnum and .45 Colt, some .40 S&W, nothing at all in .45 Auto, 9mm or .38 Super. Very few handguns anywhere in the store -- usually the display cases are stacked four to six deep with every model in every make. NO handgun powder, and exactly three (3) 1-pound bottles of rifle powder (one each of three different powders). NO handgun OR rifle primers. NO handgun bullets in 9mm, .38 Special, .357 magnum, .44 or .45 flavors. They had a lot of bags of 45-grain .22 caliber rifle bullets, and a few bags of 95-grain FMJ bullets for .380 ACP. That was it. And no rimfire ammo at all, of any make, weight, or velocity.