Little experience with rifles, would like to start hunting

SPCDRI · May 19, 2011, 04:11 PM

Hello. I have been a shotgun user for the last 8 years when I have hunted and I have only hunted for turkey and other birds.

I am looking to get into rifle hunting for feral pig and deer hunting in Wisconsin. I have shot .223 in the Army, .243, .270, and 30-06 that my family and relatives have owned. I didn't like the 30-06, even in a 7 pound rifle with a 1 pound scope. I have shot magnum shells before but this was worse than that. It was too loud and had too much recoil for me.

I was told to try out a .254 round, something like .257 Roberts+P or .25-06.
I only knew one person who had killed deer with .257 Roberts and the most common rifles that I have seen in Wisconsin are 30-06 and .270 bolt actions

Thank you!

dalegribble · May 19, 2011, 04:58 PM

the 243 is an easy to shoot all around rifle for the game you listed.

Art Eatman · May 19, 2011, 06:56 PM

100-grain bullets in a .243 will pretty much deal with anything from around 300 pounds on down. A 22" to 24" barrel will cut down on the noise a fair amount.

No flies on the .257 Roberts. And, most US-made loads for a 7x57 Mauser cartridge are a bit downloaded because of the older rifles still in use, so the recoil and blast with factory ammo is about like the Roberts. Either are plenty good for deer and hogs.

SRH78 · May 19, 2011, 07:50 PM

A couple more calibers that I think would be worth taking a look at are the 260 Remington and the 7mm-08. Both are based on the 308 Winchester case.

SPCDRI · May 19, 2011, 09:27 PM

I was looking at rifles that are available and have companies who offer lots of different types of rounds for them.

For some reason the .260 and .280 never really caught on so I have ruled them out. That is also why I am scared off of 6.5X55.

Thank you for the .243 and 7mm-08 recommendations.

Brian Pfleuger · May 19, 2011, 09:31 PM

.25-06 would be great for recoil mitigation, 7mm-08 would be a lot more energy than the 25-06 with a LOT less recoil than a 30-06. 243 would be most cost effective, less recoil than the other two and plenty capable. I really like the 7-08 but there's no way I'd own one without reloading. Factory ammo is BIG money, though the .25-06 may not be much cheaper, I haven't looked lately.

Art Eatman · May 20, 2011, 08:49 AM

peetzakilla, it's ALL expensive, nowadays. And, it's gonna get worse--even for reloading components. All commodities are increasing in cost to the manufacturers, along with transportation to the retailers.

Typical .308 and .30-'06 loads: 150-grain bullet at around 2,800 to 2,900 ft/sec.

7mm08 load: 140-grain bullet at around 2,800 ft/sec.

For a given weight of rifle, the difference in recoil is only trivially different.

Capt Rick Hiott · May 20, 2011, 09:04 AM

I just got back into hunting last year for hogs here in the south.
I picked the Marlin model 336 in 30-30.
On my first trip,,,I killed three hogs in about 10 seconds. Its a sweet little gun and you can get one for about 300 dollars.............Ammo is cheap and easy to find.

Brian Pfleuger · May 20, 2011, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Eatman

peetzakilla, it's ALL expensive, nowadays. And, it's gonna get worse--even for reloading components. All commodities are increasing in cost to the manufacturers, along with transportation to the retailers.

Typical .308 and .30-'06 loads: 150-grain bullet at around 2,800 to 2,900 ft/sec.

7mm08 load: 140-grain bullet at around 2,800 ft/sec.

For a given weight of rifle, the difference in recoil is only trivially different.

Certainly the costs are all going up. Still, the 30-06 and 243 will probably always have cheaper factory ammo than the 7-08 or 25-06, for identical products.

As to recoil, the 30-06 feels a whole lot worse to me. From the recoil table at Chuck Hawke's, all with 8.0lb rifles, the numbers are energy and velocity:

.25-06 (120 at 3000) 12.5 10.0

7-08 (140 at 2860) 12.6 10.1

30-06 (150 at 2910) 17.6 11.9

30-06 (165 at 2900) 20.1. 12.7

I know and fully appreciate that recoil feel is subjective. A 30-06 feels much, much worse to me than a 7-08 and those numbers indicate a recoil increase of 40% for what is a lighter than "normal" 150gr 30-06 bullet and an increase of 60% for the 165gr, which is nearly identical to the much more typical (IME) 180gr 30-06. Also, the velocity numbers are right at the top of "push" range, IMO, for the 7-08/25-06 and solidly transitioning into the "punch in the shoulder" range for the 30-06.

My personal tolerance for comfortable recoil is right about at the 7-08. I do not shoot a 30-06 for fun. I can shoot a 7-08 quite a lot without being bothered.

As always, YMMV.

chewie146 · May 20, 2011, 12:44 PM

The .308 is a good little round, and very common. I am trying to find the pic of my dad's little hog he nabbed with that rifle. It's a Weatherby Vanguard, which isn't the worst choice you could make by a long shot.

SRH78 · May 20, 2011, 06:01 PM

A couple more things to consider...

The weight of the rifle will have a noticable effect on felt recoil.

A good recoil pad will make a huge difference.

PawPaw · May 20, 2011, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRH78

A good recoil pad will make a huge difference.

Absolutely, I concur. I really like the Limbsaver pads, and the Pachmayr Deceleerator. Remington has a great pad in their R3 pad. I bought a replacement stock from Savage recently and it came with a great pad on it. I'm not sure who's making their stocks, but the pad is great.

Cowboy_mo · May 20, 2011, 08:42 PM

+1 for heavier rifle and good recoil pad like Limbsaver & Pachmayr.......

Brian Pfleuger · May 20, 2011, 08:44 PM

I agree 100% with getting a LimbSaver recoil pad. Not so much with the heavy rifle part. Even carrying an 8lb gun gets old before too long. I'd sooner downgrade the cartridge and carry a lighter gun than get higher recoil and try to mitigate it with extra weight.

Cowboy_mo · May 20, 2011, 08:48 PM

+1 for heavier rifle and good recoil pad like Limbsaver & Pachmayr.......

stinkybriches · May 20, 2011, 10:53 PM

where are you going to be hunting. farms and private land with cut out shooting lanes, or public land thats generaly thick and long shots are hard to come by. if its the later i recomend a lever in .30-30, a pump in .308, or a semi in .308.

if its farm/private land, i recomend a bolt in .270, .308, 7mm08, or .243.

imho if that .30-06 jacked you more than a 12 with magnum loads, the .30-06 must have fit you horribly.

12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/2 at 1260) 7.5 45.0
.30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700) 8.0 20.3
.458 Win. Mag. (400 at 2050) 9.0 41.7

chambering load gun weight recoil energy

Dr. Strangelove · May 21, 2011, 01:37 AM

I'd round up some friends and try some different rifles, all the cartridges recommended are sound, but can feel different recoil wise because of rifle weight or stock design.

I have a .270win, .308win, and 7mm Rem Mag, but the .270win kicks the hardest because of the stock design.

Try a few and see what stock design and weight suits your needs.

Art Eatman · May 21, 2011, 09:05 AM

Proper fit makes a difference in felt recoil, as well as weight. I lucked out with my 700 Ti in 7mm08. 6.5 pounds, fully dressed, but it fits very well and the recoil pad is great. No pain at the bench for my arthritic shoulder.

Still, the key for any cartridge is accurate shot placement, which means practicing from field positions after sight-in from a benchrest. No benchrest out in woods or pastures.

Another point is that of aiming at a specific place on an animal. Not just "somewhere in the brown". If you don't shoot into the eating part, you don't waste meat.

SPCDRI · May 21, 2011, 07:45 PM

Yeah, the .30-06 was owned by a guy about half a foot taller than me with longer arms. Even then, I can't believe a 12 with 3 inch shells has as much recoil as a rifle people use for rhino and elephant. That can't be possible.

There are some fields and private stuff, some shooting from deer stands in the woods. In Georgia there is a LOT of brush and trees all over the place where I live currently.

The plan is to start practicing ASAP, within the month, at the range and on targets and go into the woods to go after live animals once it starts cooling off sometimes around September. June, July and most of August are ridiculous around here, 95-100 degrees, high humidity, and sand gnats and mosquitos galore.

Brian Pfleuger · May 21, 2011, 09:43 PM

A 12ga with even 2 3/4 deer slugs is the highest recoiling gun most people will ever shoot. That alone matches some of the heaviest recoil rifles anywhere. A 12ga with 3 or 3 1/2 inch turkey loads, particularly a pump gun, is brutal, on par with all but the worst of the worst rifles.

I grew up using 12ga on deer. I hate 12ga. If I never fired a deer slug again I could die happy.

Edward429451 · May 21, 2011, 10:34 PM

I love slugs. They can tenderize the cheek even worse than the shoulder sometimes. Remington makes a pretty good recoil pad, but the addition of the Blackhawk Butt-stock ammo carrier/cheekpad is wonderful. I bought it for the ammo carrier but love it for the cheekpad. It adds another whole level of comfort to shooting slugs.

I added one to my 1895G also. Highly recommended.

banditt007 · May 22, 2011, 09:23 PM

How about a 30-30, can kill the same stuff a 30-06 can just at a shorter distance and the recoil is much easier/shells are cheaper, and...they are just plain fun to shoot.

stinkybriches · May 23, 2011, 02:31 PM

yep, heavy 12 gauge loads can really work your shoulder.

i didnt really say it clearly before so here goes, i really dont recommend a scoped bolt action for thick wisconsin woods. even a scoped lever, pump or semi would be much more handy. and if you have the eyesight for it i would stick with irons.

for that sort of hunting i would choose a:
marlin 336
rem 750
browning blr
browning bar short track
rem 7600

Mayor Al · May 23, 2011, 05:26 PM

I can honestly report that my Saiga S-12 has given me a real incentive to perform the "One Shot= One Kill" when hunting. I know I need to be ready for a follow-up slug, if needed, but the thought of a second quick blow to the shoulder makes my efforts for accuracy a bit more intense !!

C0untZer0 · May 23, 2011, 06:30 PM

I would think you'd have to have balls the size of a 400lb boar's to hunt wild pigs on the ground with a bolt action.

I wouldn't want to be cycling the bolt when a boar charges.

I guess you can use a bolt action from a tree stand.

Maybe hunting wild boar on the ground with a bolt action gives you the reason to justify putting on those picatinny rails and mounting a bayonet...

May 19, 2011, 04:11 PM	#1
SPCDRI Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Posts: 3	Little experience with rifles, would like to start hunting Hello. I have been a shotgun user for the last 8 years when I have hunted and I have only hunted for turkey and other birds. I am looking to get into rifle hunting for feral pig and deer hunting in Wisconsin. I have shot .223 in the Army, .243, .270, and 30-06 that my family and relatives have owned. I didn't like the 30-06, even in a 7 pound rifle with a 1 pound scope. I have shot magnum shells before but this was worse than that. It was too loud and had too much recoil for me. I was told to try out a .254 round, something like .257 Roberts+P or .25-06. I only knew one person who had killed deer with .257 Roberts and the most common rifles that I have seen in Wisconsin are 30-06 and .270 bolt actions Thank you!

May 19, 2011, 04:58 PM	#2
dalegribble Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2007 Posts: 861	the 243 is an easy to shoot all around rifle for the game you listed. __________________ Waltzes with woofs

May 19, 2011, 09:31 PM	#6
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	.25-06 would be great for recoil mitigation, 7mm-08 would be a lot more energy than the 25-06 with a LOT less recoil than a 30-06. 243 would be most cost effective, less recoil than the other two and plenty capable. I really like the 7-08 but there's no way I'd own one without reloading. Factory ammo is BIG money, though the .25-06 may not be much cheaper, I haven't looked lately. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

May 20, 2011, 09:04 AM	#8
Capt Rick Hiott Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 376	I just got back into hunting last year for hogs here in the south. I picked the Marlin model 336 in 30-30. On my first trip,,,I killed three hogs in about 10 seconds. Its a sweet little gun and you can get one for about 300 dollars.............Ammo is cheap and easy to find. __________________ Capt Rick Hiott Charleston,SC

May 20, 2011, 08:44 PM	#14
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	I agree 100% with getting a LimbSaver recoil pad. Not so much with the heavy rifle part. Even carrying an 8lb gun gets old before too long. I'd sooner downgrade the cartridge and carry a lighter gun than get higher recoil and try to mitigate it with extra weight. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

May 19, 2011, 06:56 PM	#3
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	100-grain bullets in a .243 will pretty much deal with anything from around 300 pounds on down. A 22" to 24" barrel will cut down on the noise a fair amount. No flies on the .257 Roberts. And, most US-made loads for a 7x57 Mauser cartridge are a bit downloaded because of the older rifles still in use, so the recoil and blast with factory ammo is about like the Roberts. Either are plenty good for deer and hogs.

May 19, 2011, 07:50 PM	#4
SRH78 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 517	A couple more calibers that I think would be worth taking a look at are the 260 Remington and the 7mm-08. Both are based on the 308 Winchester case.

May 19, 2011, 09:27 PM	#5
SPCDRI Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Posts: 3	I was looking at rifles that are available and have companies who offer lots of different types of rounds for them. For some reason the .260 and .280 never really caught on so I have ruled them out. That is also why I am scared off of 6.5X55. Thank you for the .243 and 7mm-08 recommendations.

May 20, 2011, 08:49 AM	#7
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	peetzakilla, it's ALL expensive, nowadays. And, it's gonna get worse--even for reloading components. All commodities are increasing in cost to the manufacturers, along with transportation to the retailers. Typical .308 and .30-'06 loads: 150-grain bullet at around 2,800 to 2,900 ft/sec. 7mm08 load: 140-grain bullet at around 2,800 ft/sec. For a given weight of rifle, the difference in recoil is only trivially different.

May 20, 2011, 12:44 PM	#10
chewie146 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2010 Location: New Mexico Posts: 853	The .308 is a good little round, and very common. I am trying to find the pic of my dad's little hog he nabbed with that rifle. It's a Weatherby Vanguard, which isn't the worst choice you could make by a long shot.

May 20, 2011, 06:01 PM	#11
SRH78 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 517	A couple more things to consider... The weight of the rifle will have a noticable effect on felt recoil. A good recoil pad will make a huge difference.

May 20, 2011, 08:42 PM	#13
Cowboy_mo Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,039	+1 for heavier rifle and good recoil pad like Limbsaver & Pachmayr.......

May 20, 2011, 08:48 PM	#15
Cowboy_mo Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,039	+1 for heavier rifle and good recoil pad like Limbsaver & Pachmayr.......

May 20, 2011, 10:53 PM	#16
stinkybriches Junior Member Join Date: May 16, 2011 Location: wisconsin Posts: 6	where are you going to be hunting. farms and private land with cut out shooting lanes, or public land thats generaly thick and long shots are hard to come by. if its the later i recomend a lever in .30-30, a pump in .308, or a semi in .308. if its farm/private land, i recomend a bolt in .270, .308, 7mm08, or .243. imho if that .30-06 jacked you more than a 12 with magnum loads, the .30-06 must have fit you horribly. 12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/2 at 1260) 7.5 45.0 .30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700) 8.0 20.3 .458 Win. Mag. (400 at 2050) 9.0 41.7 chambering load gun weight recoil energy Last edited by stinkybriches; May 20, 2011 at 11:01 PM.

May 21, 2011, 01:37 AM	#17
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	I'd round up some friends and try some different rifles, all the cartridges recommended are sound, but can feel different recoil wise because of rifle weight or stock design. I have a .270win, .308win, and 7mm Rem Mag, but the .270win kicks the hardest because of the stock design. Try a few and see what stock design and weight suits your needs. __________________ Just remember, when you pull the trigger, the bullets come out going very, very fast. So make sure to keep the weapon pointing away from you.

May 21, 2011, 09:05 AM	#18
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Proper fit makes a difference in felt recoil, as well as weight. I lucked out with my 700 Ti in 7mm08. 6.5 pounds, fully dressed, but it fits very well and the recoil pad is great. No pain at the bench for my arthritic shoulder. Still, the key for any cartridge is accurate shot placement, which means practicing from field positions after sight-in from a benchrest. No benchrest out in woods or pastures. Another point is that of aiming at a specific place on an animal. Not just "somewhere in the brown". If you don't shoot into the eating part, you don't waste meat.

May 21, 2011, 07:45 PM	#19
SPCDRI Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Posts: 3	Yeah, the .30-06 was owned by a guy about half a foot taller than me with longer arms. Even then, I can't believe a 12 with 3 inch shells has as much recoil as a rifle people use for rhino and elephant. That can't be possible. There are some fields and private stuff, some shooting from deer stands in the woods. In Georgia there is a LOT of brush and trees all over the place where I live currently. The plan is to start practicing ASAP, within the month, at the range and on targets and go into the woods to go after live animals once it starts cooling off sometimes around September. June, July and most of August are ridiculous around here, 95-100 degrees, high humidity, and sand gnats and mosquitos galore.

May 21, 2011, 09:43 PM	#20
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	A 12ga with even 2 3/4 deer slugs is the highest recoiling gun most people will ever shoot. That alone matches some of the heaviest recoil rifles anywhere. A 12ga with 3 or 3 1/2 inch turkey loads, particularly a pump gun, is brutal, on par with all but the worst of the worst rifles. I grew up using 12ga on deer. I hate 12ga. If I never fired a deer slug again I could die happy. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

May 21, 2011, 10:34 PM	#21
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I love slugs. They can tenderize the cheek even worse than the shoulder sometimes. Remington makes a pretty good recoil pad, but the addition of the Blackhawk Butt-stock ammo carrier/cheekpad is wonderful. I bought it for the ammo carrier but love it for the cheekpad. It adds another whole level of comfort to shooting slugs. I added one to my 1895G also. Highly recommended.

May 22, 2011, 09:23 PM	#22
banditt007 Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2006 Posts: 694	How about a 30-30, can kill the same stuff a 30-06 can just at a shorter distance and the recoil is much easier/shells are cheaper, and...they are just plain fun to shoot.

May 23, 2011, 02:31 PM	#23
stinkybriches Junior Member Join Date: May 16, 2011 Location: wisconsin Posts: 6	yep, heavy 12 gauge loads can really work your shoulder. i didnt really say it clearly before so here goes, i really dont recommend a scoped bolt action for thick wisconsin woods. even a scoped lever, pump or semi would be much more handy. and if you have the eyesight for it i would stick with irons. for that sort of hunting i would choose a: marlin 336 rem 750 browning blr browning bar short track rem 7600

May 23, 2011, 05:26 PM	#24
Mayor Al Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Southern Indiana, Near Louisville. Posts: 211	I can honestly report that my Saiga S-12 has given me a real incentive to perform the "One Shot= One Kill" when hunting. I know I need to be ready for a follow-up slug, if needed, but the thought of a second quick blow to the shoulder makes my efforts for accuracy a bit more intense !!

May 23, 2011, 06:30 PM	#25
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	I would think you'd have to have balls the size of a 400lb boar's to hunt wild pigs on the ground with a bolt action. I wouldn't want to be cycling the bolt when a boar charges. I guess you can use a bolt action from a tree stand. Maybe hunting wild boar on the ground with a bolt action gives you the reason to justify putting on those picatinny rails and mounting a bayonet...