Unintentional Double Taps

[jackstrawIII]

I purchased a Walther PPQ 45 a few months ago and fell in love. The trigger is "great". However, now that I've put close to 500 rounds through it, the trigger is so light that I've been getting unintentional double taps at the range. Meaning, I try to pull the trigger once and the gun is going off twice.

Needless to say, this is a huge problem.

Anyone else have this experience? Is there something I can do to fix this? I am not comfortable carrying or using a gun that I'm not in complete control of, so I feel a bit stuck here.

Thanks.

[g.willikers]

Is it the gun or the shooter causing this?
For a striker fired weapon, it could be a form of bump fire, possibly the result of a less than firm grip on the gun.

[jackstrawIII]

g.willikers,

I should have clarified, I'm not an inexperienced shooter and regularly shoot striker fired: Glocks, M&Ps, Walthers, Springfields, and Sigs. I have never had this happen with any other striker fired gun.

From my experience, this problem is exclusive to the PPQ.

[Loosedhorse]

Is there something I can do to fix this?

Send it back to the factory for warranty repair. Contact them first; they will give you a work number for the job, and might even send a shipping label prepaid.

[TunnelRat]

The Walther PPQ is the only pistol I also had this problem with. That said it was still me the shooter in the end responsible and the result of what g.willikers mentioned. It can happen to you whether you're experienced or not. The other alternative is a mechanical failing in the pistol itself.


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[sigarms228]

I had that happen with my PPQ a couple times after getting it but it has not happened to me in years now. Probably a trigger control issue maybe trying to get at reset too quickly before pistol is done recoiling. Weak grip could also be a factor. Link below explains more and some solutions.

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/p...uble-taps.html

[Onward Allusion]

I've had that happen on SA and traditional SA/DA pistols - hammer and striker. Never on a DAO. It's caused by too loose of grip or aka bump-fire.

If you want to prove it ain't the gun, shoot the gun from sandbags or even a ransom rest.

[T. O'Heir]

Usually caused by failing to follow through on the shot. As in releasing the trigger too soon and pulling it a second time under recoil. Happens fairly often with new shooters and M-14 style rifles. Pretty exciting but not particularly dangerous as long as you control the muzzle.
It's fixed by holding the trigger back until the pistol is finished recoiling. Hold on to the pistol tighter like sigarms228 says, helps too.

[PSP]

I had way too many unintended double taps with my PPQ. The reset and pull are too short and light IMHO. Shooting this pistol from reset is going to generate double taps. People rave about this trigger but I found it less than desirable for this reason. Otherwise the gun was great. It needs a longer "everyman" safer reset IMHO.

[mrdaputer]

I would have to say it is the shooter it takes some time to master the PPQ trigger. PPQ means "Police Pistol Quick". It is a combat Pistol. You could always let another experienced shooter use your pistol to make sure tho.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by mrdaputer

I would have to say it is the shooter it takes some time to master the PPQ trigger. PPQ means "Police Pistol Quick". It is a combat Pistol. You could always let another experienced shooter use your pistol to make sure tho.

I'm not really sure what it being a "combat" pistol has to do with this issue. Glocks are used by both more police and more military organizations than the PPQ and the issue is much less pronounced. Typically "combat" pistols will have a slightly longer reset. Edit: this isn't me saying that Glocks are "better" overall.



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[Fishbed77]

The Walther PPQ is the only pistol I also had this problem with. That said it was still me the shooter in the end responsible and the result of what g.willikers mentioned.

I've had the same thing happen early on with the very similar P99AS.

It's almost certainly a shooter issue and not a mechanical one. A combination of the light, very smooth, crisp triggers with an incredibly short reset will allow this to happen if you aren't focusing on trigger control.

[mrdaputer]

I'm not really sure what it being a "combat" pistol has to do with this issue.

I was talking about the light trigger pull and the very short reset Most unbiased ppl say who shoot the PPQ feel that the PPQ has the sweetest trigger right out of the box.

[TunnelRat]

Most unbiased ppl say who shoot the PPQ feel that the PPQ has the sweetest trigger right out of the box.

I would likely agree, but that doesn't have anything to do with "combat", IMO.

[mrdaputer]

That is what they refer to in the videos. My main point was that the short reset gets a lot of ppl to double tap.

[Jim Watson]

Just how light is the trigger pull?
Just how short is the reset?
Compared to a true single action.
'Cause a 3.5 lb 1911 does not induce "unintentional double taps" here.

[TunnelRat]

Yea I get your point, I agreed with those that posted the same point before you had commented. My point is it has nothing to do with "combat". My more general point is when I hear the term "combat pistol" my eyes roll out of my head, across the desk, and then I have to spend some time looking for them. It's not about you personally.


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[mrdaputer]

TunnerRat a lot of ppl refer to the PPQ as combat. You do not and I can respect that. I refer to my PPQ M5 match as my target pistol and my PPQ classic as my CCW. The main thing is no matter what you carry or shoot is safety.

[mrdaputer]

Just how light is the trigger pull? 
Just how short is the reset?

5.6 lbs and the reset about .100 of a inch. To some to light to carry to others to heavy for competition.

[random guy]

5.6 lbs and the reset about .100 of a inch.

By the specs it is virtually identical to the S&W M&P M2.0 trigger. At least the 4.25" guns. For some reason the 5" FDE pistol triggers appear to be about 1lb. heavier. That is how Guns and Ammo measured several samples and my own pistols follow the trend.

The Walther is described by some as DAO but I suspect that it is actually SA as is the Smith. I like the S&W trigger but am a bit unsettled that such a system does not include a thumb safety. Ironically, my FDE gun does have a safety while actually being less prone to AD. I carry the 4.25" gun with an empty chamber. Not ideal but neither is a cocked and UNlocked single action.

Still, I don't feel likely to accidentally "double tap" because of it. As Jim Watson said, it is no more likely to do so than most SA autos. My concern is that it might be more likely to AD while drawing or re-holstering.

[TunnelRat]

By the specs it is virtually identical to the S&W M&P M2.0 trigger.

In handling the two they sure don't seem identical. The M&P 2.0 has a nice trigger but the PPQ is both lighter in feel and in terms of weight for those I've measured. The reset to me is also noticeably shorter on the PPQ, at least talking stock versus stock. Now I haven't owned a M&P 2.0 but I have dry fired a few and owned a few M&Ps with Performance Center sears. I've owned 2 PPQs and a half dozen plus M&Ps and even after APEX kits the M&Ps weren't quite like the PPQ.

Ironically, my FDE gun does have a safety while actually being less prone to AD.

I'm not really sure I buy the idea that by being a lb. lighter it's really notably more prone to an AD, but that's not really a debate we need to have.

I like the S&W trigger but am a bit unsettled that such a system does not include a thumb safety.

The system is drop safe. It is not user proof, nor is any system really.

I carry the 4.25" gun with an empty chamber. Not ideal but neither is a cocked and UNlocked single action.

What one person does is completely his/her call. But were I you, I'd pick a different carry gun. To me empty chamber carry is crazy.

Edited to be less grumpy

[ritepath]

I've had it happen a few times with my CZ p-09 and 75 for sure my fault for having a crappy grip on the pistol.

[James K]

"The other alternative is a mechanical failing in the pistol itself."

Why is that seemingly impossible, especially is someone has tried to "tune" the trigger pull. It is not uncommon for a sear engagement to fail as the gun wears, due to several factors, including improper attempts at "gunsmithing".

A pull weight of over 5 pounds and a trigger movement of .1 inch does not seem unsafe, but if the trigger pull has significantly changed over a short period, it might be a good idea to have the pull checked by a gunsmith or the factory. Things are often relative; a 5 pound pull might be unsafe if the norm for a gun is 10 pounds and that is what a shooter is expecting.

Jim

[random guy]

In handling the two they sure don't seem identical.

Most reviewers have been pretty impressed by the M2.0 trigger. I reviewed the G&A article and the pull weight is actually about 6# in the 4.25" and 7+# in the 5", so a bit heavier than the Walther. And there is some creep but it is not gritty, at least after a few rounds. I believe the reset, measured at the center of pressure would be about the same.

Admittedly I have never touched a PPQ so these measurements are all I have to go by.

At some point, lighter pull weight will be a safety issue. Whether the two S&Ws represent such a case will depend on the situation. Ya know, I just pulled both pistols out and I can no longer tell any difference in the pull weight. Hmm. Honestly both felt "creaky" as shipped but seem to improve quickly. My 4.25 may just have been ahead of the 5" in this process.

The system is drop safe. It is not user proof, nor is any system really.

Very true. However, you won't find many people carrying a 1911 cocked and unlocked (Hey, it's drop safe!), depending on perfect execution to keep them from shooting their feet off.

What one person does is completely his/her call. But were I you, I'd pick a different carry gun. To me empty chamber carry is crazy.

Yeah, there are a few paths to follow and one is a different gun. I never rule out an upgrade. It feels kind of Luddite to say it but I never saw much problem with a well executed DA/SA semi-auto, from a safety or performance standpoint.

[JohnKSa]

...1911 cocked and unlocked (Hey, it's drop safe!)...

Are you talking about a series 80?